Mooches who paid for their panels and sell excess electricity to us all.
Why would we need them? In your hypothetical, the grid would be the excess power from other solar users.
Koch Bros Behind Solar Power Fines
- Thread starter yung_dood
- Start date
Wow, you really have no idea how the grid works, do you. I don't care if you have unicorns puking rainbows over your solar and wind farms, if you want to stay connected to the grid to either (a) use electricity from the grid as a backup supply for your unreliable renewable power supply, or (b) sell your excess renewable power back onto the grid, then you pay for grid maintenance like everyone else.The ONLY things I could see them charging for and its really a one time thing is the meter on your house and the piece of wire that connects your breaker box to their main supply where your property ends and the labor to install it which isn't much. This is not a monthly or recurrent cost at all, neither the meter or the wire will breakdown anytime soon. The rest of the infrastructure in the subdivision has already been paid for in the cost of your house that the developer passed on to you, and the fees developers are charged and some portion of municipal taxes.
More unicorns puking rainbows .... wow. Renewables are a long long way from providing a large scale solution to energy supply issues. In fact, renewable expansion is creating new issues. As was discussed in another recent thread, renewables in Germany have expanded to such an extent in Germany that utilities there are returning to coal fired generation to provide operating reserve and capacity. Renewable integration requires a balanced approach and staged implementation.It is odd to read someone supporting ancient tech like burning coal over modern advancements provided by clean renewable energy sources. It seems obvious to me that solar and wind are better than destroying the land by mining coal, transporting it, burning it, and spewing tons of soot in the air.
Batteries provide backup power to entire hospitals? Really? Oh do tell.No because they have invented batteries!!!
Why is that? Is it illegal to levy a tax on something while it is still sucking $billions in taxpayer funded subsidies and grants? I bet you are voting for Olivia Chow in the next mayoral election, aren't you.Taxing solar power should be completely illegal.
Agreed regarding critical systems, but you will notice my inquiry was "entire hospitals". Hospitals are a priority during power system restoration because backup systems (both battery and diesel) are limited in quantity and duration.There are very large industrial inverters / battery banks (multiple units are used) which are used in many hospitals to back up critical systems, which are usually also backed up by a generator
If you actually looked into it, inefficiency of battery storage is one of the major problems with large scale solar power.No because they have invented batteries!!!
So tell usThis article (and most of the posts in this thread) really just shows how little the general public understands how energy production works
Did you read my previous post or is your head under water because the lack of oxygen is making you see unicorns and rainbows, probably your little pony is in there too.Wow, you really have no idea how the grid works, do you. I don't care if you have unicorns puking rainbows over your solar and wind farms, if you want to stay connected to the grid to either (a) use electricity from the grid as a backup supply for your unreliable renewable power supply, or (b) sell your excess renewable power back onto the grid, then you pay for grid maintenance like everyone else.
More unicorns puking rainbows .... wow. Renewables are a long long way from providing a large scale solution to energy supply issues. In fact, renewable expansion is creating new issues. As was discussed in another recent thread, renewables in Germany have expanded to such an extent in Germany that utilities there are returning to coal fired generation to provide operating reserve and capacity. Renewable integration requires a balanced approach and staged implementation.
This problem is one of accounting and crappy pricing models and non-disclosure of costs and nothing more.
Grid maintenance - who are ALL the party's that pay for it now? Ever look at your bill much? Find the line that says distribution charge.
You are trying to make the argument that the guy who uses 5kW should pay a penalty because some schmuck is using 50kW. That's equivalent to having rocks in ones head and the financial meltdown that we're in the aftermath of.
wow bad accounting rules you eh?Why is that? Is it illegal to levy a tax on something while it is still sucking $billions in taxpayer funded subsidies and grants? I bet you are voting for Olivia Chow in the next mayoral election, aren't you.
maybe they should tax you extra everytime you goto the doctor too, and if you don't go, tax you more !
Come up for air dude or you'll drown drinking the koolaid.
To rewrite a more accurate article?So tell us
Really?
The most obvious error is the idea someone running an alternative source of energy is somehow being punished
Author probably has no clue what negative billing is or why electric companies will actually pay others to take power off their grids
The obvious fact the incentive is more than triple the going rates?yes those who go green are given an incentive
without these incentives the green industry would not get off the ground
once established as a business model the incentives will stop
What is the problem here???
When you see one of those scam install solar panels for free ads where exactly do you think the THOUSANDS of dollars for hardware + labour are coming from?
And this does not even get into costs of load balance (it is VERY expensive to shut down a nuclear reactor's output during peak summer months)
Fair enough. Only an idiot would think that.To rewrite a more accurate article?
Really?
The most obvious error is the idea someone running an alternative source of energy is somehow being punished
Author probably has no clue what negative billing is or why electric companies will actually pay others to take power off their grids
I've been told by many sources, retail, wholesale, designers, and users that with the way compensation is right now with Ontario Hydro,, the best way to run a system at your home is to sell all that you generate to the grid and draw what you need back.
get real1: People often getting subsidies are not actually going green. Building monster mansions, ethonol etc.
2: If it is viable it will get off the ground anyways in due course, in the fullness of time. What gets off the ground will be what actually works. Plenty of things get off the ground without subsidies.
3: Perhaps that money could be spent in more productive ways..
4: It is better if not politically acceptible to price in full negitive externalities [and stop subsiding them] rather then provide positive inventives.
5: Inccentives will stop. Oh honey that is so cute. I could just pinch your cheeks.
it will not get off ground as the laws of capitalism do not work on the environment nor on long term needs
it is called the invisible hand because it does not exist
we needed the government to invent the computer for example
So our hospitals should be forced to use the most costly and unreliable form of electric generation?...
For people with solar & wind power, perhaps the cost could be structured like membership in a private club like golf or tennis or whatever.
You pay a large-ish amount to join and set up your account. You pay a nominal amount each year to keep your membership active. And you pay per use for each time you actually use the tennis court.
...
Fair enough. Only an idiot would think that.
I've been told by many sources, retail, wholesale, designers, and users that with the way compensation is right now with Ontario Hydro,, the best way to run a system at your home is to sell all that you generate to the grid and draw what you need back.
John Eick, the legislative analyst for ALEC’s energy, environment and agriculture program, confirmed to The Guardian that the organization would support making solar panel users pay extra for the electricity they generate. That’s already about to happen in Arizona, where homeowners who use solar panels will pay an average of about $5 extra a month for the privilege, starting in January.
Did you even read the linked article - especially the last 4 paragraphs?: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/15/arizona-solar-energy-fight-ends_n_4282220.html
The consumers are using LESS off the grid, just like a house that uses less than their neighbors.
The powercompany is buying power at a discount - at less than they can make it for, to feed their network.
So yes alternative source folks ARE being penalized if an extra fee is being charged to them.
If the grid has shitty accounting and forcast use models the onus is not on the consumer to cough up the fictitious loss.
In 2014 and 2015 the cost of panels will plumet making it cheaper than ever to install them. To heck with the grid, its old and it doesn't scale well anymore, it's winding down.
You seem to have missed the point that panels + installation costs THOUSANDS of dollars (where do you think this is coming from if not from the overall user base?)The consumers are using LESS off the grid, just like a house that uses less than their neighbors.
The powercompany is buying power at a discount - at less than they can make it for, to feed their network.
So yes alternative source folks ARE being penalized if an extra fee is being charged to them.
If the grid has shitty accounting and forcast use models the onus is not on the consumer to cough up the fictitious loss.
On top of that the government pays absurdly high rates for purchasing solar and wind energy, so power company pays $0.60 for a unit of energy they then turn around and sell for $0.15 per unit
Even if panels dropped in price by half the cost to the grid is still enormous and there are other factors as well
I haven't missed anything, especially the pathetic pleas for subsidizing a dying industry. Within 20 years the grid as we know it will not exist, it won't be needed, infact its not needed today if you have enough money.You seem to have missed the point that panels + installation costs THOUSANDS of dollars (where do you think this is coming from if not from the overall user base?)
On top of that the government pays absurdly high rates for purchasing solar and wind energy, so power company pays $0.60 for a unit of energy they then turn around and sell for $0.15 per unit
Even if panels dropped in price by half the cost to the grid is still enormous and there are other factors as well
What should probably be done is a forensic exam of where these delivery and maintenance costs go right now. The grid is so bad and defunct that it browns out in the summer, it fails in high winds, it completely implodes during ice-storms and american power problems.
Ha ha ha .... I am laughing at my own stupidity for even responding to you. I am trying to figure out if you know how to count, never mind if you know what accounting rules are. I have read all of your posts, including the links, I have yet to read anything that you have written that makes any sense. I can't argue with stupidity. Out.wow bad accounting rules you eh?
maybe they should tax you extra everytime you goto the doctor too, and if you don't go, tax you more !
Come up for air dude or you'll drown drinking the koolaid.
