Kerry on Iraq

[onthebottom]

Can we really trust this guy?

http://www.kerryoniraq.com/

Great video clips of the flipflopper in action!

OTB

 

[happygrump]

Well, it sure makes Howard Dean look like a goof, but that's not hard...

Amazing what "creative editing" can do. But I digress...

Thing is, it looks at least to me that Kerry, like most of the rest of the US, bought the lies that Bush told. Once it became clear that Bush and his junta had lied about WMD and were sending America's young people to war based on falsehoods, Kerry did the responsible thing.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Bush on Iraq

Can we really trust THIS guy?

Bush has been quite the FLIPFLOPPER himself. The many flipflops of Dubya have been stated many times before.

The following article comes to the point of what it Iraq is all about, all else is Rush Limbaugh style "smoke & mirrors":

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?story=04/08/12/5445550

"Politicians hide themselves away. They only started the war. Why should they go out to fight? They leave that role to the poor" -- Black Sabbath "War Pigs"

 

[onthebottom]

Well, it sure makes Howard Dean look like a goof, but that's not hard...

Amazing what "creative editing" can do. But I digress...

Thing is, it looks at least to me that Kerry, like most of the rest of the US, bought the lies that Bush told. Once it became clear that Bush and his junta had lied about WMD and were sending America's young people to war based on falsehoods, Kerry did the responsible thing.

Lies Bush told? He said much of that before Bush was in office:

KERRY: "I think there is a disconnect between the depth of the threat that Saddam Hussein presents to the world and what we are at the moment talking about doing. ... [T]hen we have to be prepared to go the full distance, which is to do everything possible to disrupt his regime and to encourage the forces of democracy." (ABC’s "This Week," 2/22/98)

ABC’S COKIE ROBERTS: "And does that mean ground troops in Iraq?" (ABC’s "This Week," 2/22/98)

KERRY: "I am personally prepared, if that’s what it meant." (ABC’s "This Week," 2/22/98)

And

KERRY: "[H]e can rebuild both chemical and biological. And every indication is, because of his deception and duplicity in the past, he will seek to do that. So we will not eliminate the problem for ourselves or for the rest of the world with a bombing attack." (ABC’s "This Week," 2/22/98)

or would you prefer:

KERRY: " believe he is the kind of threat that has been described. I believe that in the post-Cold War period this issue of proliferation, particularly in the hands of Saddam Hussein, is critical. It has implications for a Qaddafi, for a Sudan, for other countries in the world in the future." (ABC’s "This Week," 2/22/98)

GEORGE WILL: "Senator Kerry, you’re way ahead of the commander in chief in this regard." (ABC’s "This Week," 2/22/98)

KERRY: "I am way ahead of the commander in chief, and I’m probably way ahead of my colleagues and certainly of much of the country. But I believe this. I believe that he has used these weapons before. He has invaded another country. He views himself as a modern-day Nebuchadnezzar. He wants to continue to play the uniting critical role in that part of the world. And I think we have to stand up to that." (ABC’s "This Week," 2/22/98)

And then

KERRY: "George, I said at the time I would have preferred if we had given diplomacy a greater opportunity, but I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the President made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him." (ABC News Democrat Presidential Candidates Debate, Columbia, SC, 5/3/03)

But....

CBS’ LESLIE STAHL: "You voted for this war. Was that vote, given what you know now, a mistake?" (CBS’ "60 Minutes," 7/11/04)

KERRY: "What - what - what I voted for - Lesley, you - you - you see, you’re playing here. What - what I voted for was a - an authority for the president to go to war as a last resort if Saddam Hussein did not disarm and we needed to go to war." (CBS’ "60 Minutes," 7/11/04)

STAHL: "But I’m trying to find out if you today, now that you know about that report, think the war was a mistake? And I ..." (CBS’ "60 Minutes," 7/11/04)

KERRY: "I think I answered your question. I think the way he went to war was a mistake." (CBS’ "60 Minutes," 7/11/04)



Perhaps even he doesn't know what he thinks.....

OTB

 

[ocean976124]

Thing is, it looks at least to me that Kerry, like most of the rest of the US, bought the lies that Bush told.

If I remember correctly, Kerry is part of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Thus, he had access to classified intelligence...

 

[jwmorrice]

...Senate Intelligence Committee....

My morning smile!

jwm

 

[onthebottom]

Re: Bush on Iraq

If I remember correctly, Kerry is part of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Thus, he had access to classified intelligence...

Don’t confuse those who think like this:

Can we really trust THIS guy?

Bush has been quite the FLIPFLOPPER himself. The many flipflops of Dubya have been stated many times before.

The following article comes to the point of what it Iraq is all about, all else is Rush Limbaugh style "smoke & mirrors":

"Politicians hide themselves away. They only started the war. Why should they go out to fight? They leave that role to the poor" -- Black Sabbath "War Pigs"

with facts, they’re not susceptible to reason.

OTB

 

[happygrump]

KERRY: "I think there is a disconnect between the depth of the threat that Saddam Hussein presents to the world and what we are at the moment talking about doing. ... [T]hen we have to be prepared to go the full distance...
(looks to me like support for a strike against Iraq)

KERRY: "[H]e can rebuild both chemical and biological. And every indication is, because of his deception and duplicity in the past, he will seek to do that. So we will not eliminate the problem for ourselves or for the rest of the world with a bombing attack." (ABC’s "This Week," 2/22/98)
(also looks like support for a strike against Iraq)

KERRY: "[H]e is the kind of threat that has been described. I believe that in the post-Cold War period this issue of proliferation, particularly in the hands of Saddam Hussein, is critical."
(ditto)

KERRY: "...I think we have to stand up to that."
(and again)

And then

KERRY: "George, I said at the time I would have preferred if we had given diplomacy a greater opportunity, but I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the President made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him." (ABC News Democrat Presidential Candidates Debate, Columbia, SC, 5/3/03)
(and again)

CBS’ LESLIE STAHL: "You voted for this war. Was that vote, given what you know now, a mistake?" (CBS’ "60 Minutes," 7/11/04)

KERRY: "What I voted for... was authority for the president to go to war as a last resort if Saddam Hussein did not disarm and we needed to go to war." (CBS’ "60 Minutes," 7/11/04)
(ditto)

STAHL: "But I’m trying to find out if you today, now that you know about that report, think the war was a mistake? And I ..." (CBS’ "60 Minutes," 7/11/04)

KERRY: "I think I answered your question. I think the way he went to war was a mistake." (CBS’ "60 Minutes," 7/11/04)

"...the way he went to war was a mistake."

Exactly. Bush sends the young people of America to war in a foreign land based on lies and misinformation. But it seems to me that it's pretty clear that Kerry supported the notion of toppling Hussein.

Flip flop? Hardly.

 

[onthebottom]

"...the way he went to war was a mistake."

Exactly. Bush sends the young people of America to war in a foreign land based on lies and misinformation. But it seems to me that it's pretty clear that Kerry supported the notion of toppling Hussein.

Flip flop? Hardly.

So HG let me ask you this, is Kerry pro or anti war with Iraq?

And what Lies are you talking about?

OTB

 

[happygrump]

OTB;

It's perfectly simple.

Dubya got intelligence about WMD. Dubya believed intelligence. Dubya didn't check on "spin" of intelligence, possibly didn't even read the report. Dubya sent kids off to play army, and get them killed in the process.

Kerry believed Dubya was telling the truth. Kerry suppored Dubya on that basis. Kerry, like the rest of the planet, finds out Dubya was lying. Kerry says going to war based on a lie is wrong.

So what's the confusing part?

 

[onthebottom]

OTB;

It's perfectly simple.

Dubya got intelligence about WMD. Dubya believed intelligence. Dubya didn't check on "spin" of intelligence, possibly didn't even read the report. Dubya sent kids off to play army, and get them killed in the process.

Kerry believed Dubya was telling the truth. Kerry suppored Dubya on that basis. Kerry, like the rest of the planet, finds out Dubya was lying. Kerry says going to war based on a lie is wrong.

So what's the confusing part?

If Bush acted on faulty intelligence how was he lying, or don't liberals know the difference between lying and wrong?

What you are saying is that Kerry would have done the same thing, given the same intelligence, which he would have had given that he sat on the Senate Intelligence Committee.

OTB

 

[happygrump]

Read it again.

"... didn't check on "spin" of intelligence, possibly didn't even read the report."

And no, I never said any such thing that Kerry would have done the same. I don't put words in people's mouths.

 

[happygrump]

Bush said, "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised." Yet former deputy CIA director Richard Kerr, who is conducting a review of the prewar intelligence, has said that intelligence was full of qualifiers and caveats, and based on circumstantial and inferential evidence.

from The Nation

25,000 litres of anthrax ... 38,000 litres of botulinum toxin ... materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent ... upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents ... several mobile biological weapons labs ... thousands of Iraqi security personnel ... at work hiding documents and materials from the U.N. inspectors.

George Bush, US President - State Of Nation Address January 2003.

Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.

George Bush, US President - Address To Nation, March 2003.

... to name a few

 

[loaded]

Give it a break buys, when it comes to Iraq, bush and kerry dont differ....
it is the system.... Whether it is unverifiable intelligence, or corporate influence (oil interests), or whether it is political dissidents abroad, or a manipulated media... when interests aline, right and wrong dont matter.... just spin baby spin........who gives a f*ck.....and shock and awe will prevail againt EVIL..... ooohhhhhh

 

[onthebottom]

This with out any doubt a very screwed up election - Kerry can spin a lot of his previous thinking as thoughtful decission making - Bush on the other hand didn't surround himself with good enough people to tell him the truth about WMD ( I personally don't believe that)

I wish this guys would stop ther personal attacks and start dealing with the issues - mainly the economy. Even in Canada, what the next POTUS does with the economy will affect my wallet.

Issues, we need issues not this crap.

bbk

You mean like:

Energy Independence in 10 Years (ROTFLMFAO)
Stronger Relations with our Allies (and Motherhood and Apple Pie)
No more Job outsourcing (through a planned economy no doubt)
Taxing rich people more (because it feels good to tax someone else)
......

You can't have an issues based election with Kerry, even he doesn't know what he's thinking.

OTB

 

[blitz]

inmybottom,

can't you spread your propoganda in your own divided country?

there's no need to rake around more of your manure up here. certainly, you have found it is not fertile ground for your misguided ideals.

peace.

 

[onthebottom]

Energy independence - is something Bush said in his first budget when he allocated 1 billion to the Fuel Cell Tech.

But no one is stupid enough to think that we will be energy independent in 10 years, you'd have to suspend belief in a pretty dramatic way to believe that - or be a Democrat.... Investing in technology - good, making those kinds of claims - ignorant, incompetent, lying are the only options.

You guys don't find away to deal with your job situtation you will find that income with middle to low income families will start to fall (Economic Darwinism). Actually Kerry's plan make sense here lower Corp Tax and reward job creation in the US and close loop holes for the export of jobs..

Exactly the same garbage was said in the 80s when everyone was afraid we wouldn't make cars anymore because the Japanese made higher quality autos. Now what we have is better cars from everyone and the Japanese making them in the US (and cars are much cheaper than in the 80s in real terms). Same thing happening now with a different set of jobs.

I work for a major Software firm, was at HQ last week (where most of development happens), you know what, we've moved India to Northern California to do software development so we can pay Indians US wages, why not just move the jobs to India and pay Indian wages - same guys/gals doing the work with a more competitive cost structure.

Come on bbking, you have a decent economics foundation, you know better than this, you just need to overcome that Liberal upbringing and use your head.

Bush's idea on helping Business - not to reverse the the tax cut to the top 2% because it would hurt Small Business Owners. While I agree the majority of new jobs are created by small business if the business is generating the kind of money to put the owner in the top 2% income, that business should be a Corporation. Please what kind of economic plan is that.



bbk

If you think 200k (the amount you have to earn for Kerry to raise your taxes, and is many more than 2%) is a corporation then I don't know many individuals. Many of these folks live in New York, San Fran, Boston and are dual income households, they live in areas where average houses cost 500k - 1,000,000, they don't feel rich, they feel very middle class (in reality upper middle class). This is not the jet set that everyone thinks of (those guys are all Democrats LOL) they are working professionals - and yes they are the economic engine of the US.

OTB

 

[The_Jaded_One]

OTB, do you honestly think George Bush doesn't flip flop? I know that you are extremely biased in favour of Dubya and all but surely you don't think your boy is a straight shooter. If you honestly think that you are too dumb to live.

 

[Don]

OTB;

It's perfectly simple.

Dubya got intelligence about WMD. Dubya believed intelligence. Dubya didn't check on "spin" of intelligence, possibly didn't even read the report. Dubya sent kids off to play army, and get them killed in the process.

Kerry believed Dubya was telling the truth. Kerry suppored Dubya on that basis. Kerry, like the rest of the planet, finds out Dubya was lying. Kerry says going to war based on a lie is wrong.

So what's the confusing part?

No confusion. So it looks like:

Dubya got intelligence on WMD.
Dubya believed intelligence.
Dubya didn't check on "spin" of intelligence.
Dubya believed intelligence report telling was the truth.
Dubya supported the intelligence on that basis.

Kerry got info from Dubya on WMD.
Kerry believed Dubya.
Kerry didn't check on "spin" of intelligence.
Kerry believed Dubya was telling the truth.
Kerry suppored Dubya on that basis.

Kerry, like Dubya and the rest of the planet, finds out intelligence was wrong and both were lied to.

 

[The_Jaded_One]

Nah Don, that's not what happened. It's amazing that most people don't understand the concept "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

What happened was this:

Dubya cherry picked for intelligence and put pressure on the CIA and other intelligence agencies to give him justification to go to war. You see Bush wanted to make money for big business as well as stabilize the region and he planned (or more likely Dick Cheney did and pulled Bush's puppet strings) on attacking Iraq well before 9/11. That's why he completely ignored Hans Blix and ran roughshod over the UN.

Kerry just voted mainly with the goal of running for the president of the United States. Unfortunately he is/was too wishy washy and did a piss poor job of it b/c he didn't have the balls to vote against Bush when it was unpopular to do so but was the right thing.

Kerry, like Dubya and the rest of the planet, finds out intelligence was wrong and both were lied to.

Most Canadians I know knew it was a transparent pack of lies to begin with or at least heavily massaged "expert" findings starting with the conclusion that Iraq must have WMD and working backwards. I'm pretty sure most countries in the UN thought so too based on how they voted. Your assertion that the "rest of the planet" was fooled is ridiculous.