Jacques Parizeau
- Thread starter SkyRider
- Start date
Your analogy is incorrect, and it's utterly incomprehensible that such drivel still has currency in English Canada. (a) Quebec is in no way a "child" of Canada. Quebec was a founding partner. (b) a child is a single individual with a single mind. Quebec is a body politic of 7 million, with 7 million points of view. Some want independence, some want a form of sovereignty with an international partnership with Canada; some want true federalism with the feds withdrawing from provincial jurisdiction; some want the status quo; some want greater centralisation at the federal level, and many other different points of view. There is no coördinated conspiratorial masterplan to threaten separation in order to get greater concessions. Those who support separation, like Parizeau, didn't want any concessions. Those who want concessions, don't vote for separation. Nobody is voting for separation hoping for greater concessions.
"young Université de Montreal professor named Stéphane Dion. ... Laval University, had famously advocated using the threat of separation as a “knife to the throat" to wrest more and more powers for Quebec, "
He was not alone in using separation as a threat to get more power for Quebec.
In the 40s,50s,and 60s Montreal was a mostly English speaking in the west side and downtown ( south of Mount Royal ) areas and the Town of Mount Royal ( north of Mount Royal ) area where I grew up. The other two areas that were adjacent, Cote de Neige and Mile End were very much Jewish. The east side was French speaking as well as Laval and the South Shore. In the mid 60s things started to change, the less educated French people started to stream into Montreal and resented the better off English. People like Rene Levesque and Jacques Parizeau took advantage of the resentment and fired up separatist sentiment. Quebec can only have a common currency with Canada only if Canada would allow it and even then Quebec would not have control over its own fiscal destiny. The same can be said about sovereignty association, this can be done only with the permission of Canada and again Quebec would have no control over any decision making. All along I believed that the privileged and educated Quebecois were pulling along the lower classes on a string with promises that they can not fulfill.
Hmmm....I guess my family members living in Saguenay–Lac-Saint-Jean never got that memo because they always voted for separation without expecting it to happen. It was simply a way to wring concessions from the "maudit anglais". My large extended Franco Ontarian/Québécois family would practically get into fist fights over this during the holidays. The non-Québécois family members were terrified of post-separation backlash so they were quite opposed to the tactics of the rest of the family who did it with a nudge and a wink.
Only discussions about Parisian vs. Quebec French would get more heated haha. And Rene...fucking...Simard. Never got the appeal of that kid.
Methinks your perspective on this is a tad naive. It may not be an organized plot, but voting for separation as a means to get concessions or simply to express displeasure without actually wanting separation was (can't say "is" because I've lost touch) very much a part of the mindset in Quebec.
Sounds like present day Greece. If an independent Quebec had its own currency (the "Parizeau") it at least has the power to devalue that currency.
Show me that Parizeau ever said that Quebec considered itself pure French.
Besides, in its earliest days, there was a lot of French-Indian mixing.
Quebec was realtively satisfied until the Dominon Conference of 1946. Until then, Canada was a true confederation under the BNA Act of 1867. Constitutional powers between Canada and the Provinces were separate, well defined and respected.
After WW2, the Federal Government's huge increase in spending powers (as a result of having to fund the war effort) meant it could 'buy' into taking over some of the Provinces' constitutional jurisdictions. Poor provinces accepted cash in exchange for relinquishing some of their jurisdictions to the Federal Government. Quebec and Ontario objected to this. That included health care. That's why we have a Federal Ministry of Health, although Health is supposed to be an exclusive Provincial power under the constitution. Then there is the issue of language and culture, which was an exclusinve Provincial jurisdiction until Trudeau decided to make it a national policy.
Canada ceased to be a Confederation in 1946. If became a Federation.
In this context, Quebec governments has since sought to reclaim exclusive jurisdiction it had prior to 1946. And it didn't matter which government. (The difference with Levesque was he was going further than any other politicians). Many saw this change as a betrayal to the agreements made in 1867 that resulted in Quebec accepting to join this new Confederation. Quebec had other options, such as joining the US union, or remaining an autonomous British protectorate. Many historians and politicians see 1946 as a betrayal of the promises made to Quebec in 1867 that got it to join the new Confederation. That included exclusive control over language, culture, health and natural resources. In 1867, swift accommodations were made to Quebec because of the urgency of creating a country: after the US civil war, many US politicians were furious at Britain backing the Confederacy during the US Civil War, and sought to get back at them by invading Canada wih the then huge Continental Army. Plus, there was an opportunity to complete the Manifest Destiny and make all of North America part of the US. Britain had pretty well indicated back in the 1830's that it was not prepared anymore to spend the huge sums of money necessary to defend Canada against the Americans. Those who put Canada together thought that it was better that the British colonies be unified into a country rather than being separate in the face of US aggression.
In a confederation, the parts that make this union are sovereign in their exclusive areas of jurisdiction. That's why each Province has a head of state, the Lieutenant-General, representing the Provincial Crown.
When someone told me Parizeau died, I uttered a single word: "Good"!
I have had several days to reflect on that comment. Having lived in Quebec for 30 years and during both referendums, I regret nothing of that statement.
I have had several days to reflect on that comment. Having lived in Quebec for 30 years and during both referendums, I regret nothing of that statement.
Parizeau is the last of the hard core. He was still stirring shit right up until a few months ago making comments about the Parti Quebecois that he had abandoned years ago. P i e r r e Karl Peledeau is no threat at all, he sticks his foot down his mouth so far that that it is dangling out of his ass. Pauline Malois was only there to be Queen of Quebec pro tem promising the possibility of separation one day but never believing it herself. She was OK with that fantasy so long as she was the toast of Quebec.
Since she got the wet muddy boot put to her ass and pushed out the back door and rolled to the curb in a twirling tumble only serving 19 months before being defeated. After her defeat her rich husband has bought her and she has been seen tooling around in a $220,000 Ferrari around Montreal. The current premiere Philippe Couillard has gone to work since he was elected and has done many things to correct the past mistakes of past governments no matter how unpopular it is.
Since she got the wet muddy boot put to her ass and pushed out the back door and rolled to the curb in a twirling tumble only serving 19 months before being defeated. After her defeat her rich husband has bought her and she has been seen tooling around in a $220,000 Ferrari around Montreal. The current premiere Philippe Couillard has gone to work since he was elected and has done many things to correct the past mistakes of past governments no matter how unpopular it is.
So why have successive Liberal governments not overturned Bill 101? They've had nearly 40 years to do it.
Philippe Couillard was a brain surgeon before he was premiere, he knows that bill 101 and bill 22 are cancerous tumors. If a tumor has gone into remission then it is best to leave it alone so that it can wither and die. It is unpopular to the Quebecois to remove bill 101 or 22. All it takes is one old crotchety withered separatist to cackle up and start this crap all over again.
It is more important to pay off old debts than to open up and throw salt into it.
It is more important to pay off old debts than to open up and throw salt into it.
If it's unpopular to remove Bill 101, then they're not going to do it because they'll get booted out of office.
Couillard doesn't care about you being pissed off at Bill 101. It's more important to win elections and get reelected. It also happens to be what the population wants. It's called democracy.
And, oh ya: It's Couillard who decided to lower Quebec flags to half mast, and give Parizeau a state funeral. If he hated Parizeau, and Bill 101 is a cancerous tumour, he's damn sure not showing it.
A good democracy respects minority rights. A bad democracy is the tyranny of the majority.
Couillard was waving bye-bye to Parizite.
Was it the PQ that respected minority rights with the Quebec charter of Values?
over his dead body 20 years ago,it would have made the OP a dual citizen
you would have been a quebeckers plain and simple and NO longer welcome to say any part of you as canadian
if quebeckers ever thought that they had ANY rights to anything canadian if they vote to seperate would have been fucking delusional
if i was prime minister under a seperatist win,i wouldve told them pony up $50 billion(there part of deficit),their passports are null&void,our dollar/currency is not applicable to them(same with stamps),the free market will value their currency against the CDN$ andall government office in quebec will be sold and welcome to border guards at all crossings.
you would have been a quebeckers plain and simple and NO longer welcome to say any part of you as canadian
if quebeckers ever thought that they had ANY rights to anything canadian if they vote to seperate would have been fucking delusional
if i was prime minister under a seperatist win,i wouldve told them pony up $50 billion(there part of deficit),their passports are null&void,our dollar/currency is not applicable to them(same with stamps),the free market will value their currency against the CDN$ andall government office in quebec will be sold and welcome to border guards at all crossings.
Yeah sure!
Parizeau blasted the Quebec Charter of Values, along with Landry. In fact, he probably knowingly contributed to the PQ's defeat.
Jacques Parizeau, former PQ premier, slams charter of values
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...-pq-premier-slams-charter-of-values-1.1893919
You really have no clue, do you? Just about every you said so far is based on ignorance and hate.
I think the high water mark for separation was 1995. Sometimes, you come really close to the top of the mountain and never made it and fall back down. French Quebecois are having less children. Quebec is increasingly more diverse. Newer immigrants are not wedded to the idea of separation. In fact some Chinese immigrants are using Quebec as a back door to enter Canada.
On the other hand, Scotland might separate. Maybe Northern Ireland will vote to rejoin Ireland (a united Ireland again).
On the other hand, Scotland might separate. Maybe Northern Ireland will vote to rejoin Ireland (a united Ireland again).
That's why the PQ's Charter of Values backfired really bad on them. Idiocy if you ask me. It was doing pretty well with the immigrant vote, especially as the Italian vote was shifting from the Liberals to the PQ/Bloc. Then Marois blew it with her high handed stupidity.
Chinese Immigrants seem to adapt fairly well in Quebec, including with the language.
Parizite and Landry denounced the Quebec Charter of Values because it made the PQ look like racist, ( which they are ) Not because they are/were humanitarians
Couillard is giving Parzite a state funeral because it is politically expedient. Another way to put it is that he is kicking the coffin lid closed and pushing it into the grave on a speeding trolley.
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