it appears the tories have surrendered. YAY!!!!

[dickydoem]

And just to jump on my soap box a little more - why is it we have TWO educational systems - Public and Catholic again?

Not to go into a LONG history lesson but the Catholic school system dates back to the Quebec Act of 1774 and was a way to get the french canadians to support the british in the America War of Independence and without this support (the french had no love of the english) there would be no Canada. We would just be another part of the United States.

Also part of the 1791 Constitutional Act and The British North America Act of 1867.

 

[thighspy]

The Socialist's are here!!!!

Surprise---Surprise---We can all PAY more TAXES now--WOppeeee

Wonderful Ontario--ruled by the Teachers Union...

 

[tillithurts]

I think Fred should create a sticky thread to keep track of every broken promise, every stupid decision, every tax increase, every corrupt mpp, and every waste of our tax dollars.

That way in 4 years we can review the liberal performance and see what a stupid decision was made yesterday.

By the way, I don't think the Liberals won. The media did. They fully know that a person is smart but people are stupid.

 

[scouser1]

I think you should be thankful there are two educational systems. Why? Well, has anyone noticed how after getting the exact same amount of money per stuent as the public board, the Catholic boards have been building new schools at record rates and seem to have minimal problems with cashflow in relation to basic

I have no clue what board you are talking about because I work for the Catholic board and let me tell you the public board has it way better. The teachers are better paid, the facilities are way better, its only in the last few years the Catholic has caught up to the public school board in terms of funding. Pretty much the only thing that keeps it running is the dedication of the teachers to take a pay cut instead of going to work for the public board and the dedication of parents to send their kids to be taught in the Catholic faith.

 

[train]

the dedication of parents to send their kids to be taught in the Catholic faith.

Religion belongs in Church not in the schools ......having said that if the Catholic Board is more efficient then let them run the whole damn thing . At least Christmas will still be in the english language if they do .

The teachers' unions now runs Ontario so lets see how they do .
I don't have high hopes . Do you think they will disprove the old addage " .....those that can't do.... teach " ? Maybe . Oh joy .

Eves needed to go ....no question . He was a disaster . Worse than Peterson . A political animal of the worst kind .

Harris was the only politician in recent memory who actually did what he said he was going to do . Does anyone seriously think McSquinty will ?

 

[scubadoo]

he can't tell us... he doesn't know either..we just got snookered

he won't be able to tell us until he gets a look at the "cooked tory books" from the last 4 years. Let's see how really bad the province is now.

 

[scubadoo]

I think Fred should create a sticky thread to keep track of every broken promise, every stupid decision, every tax increase, every corrupt mpp, and every waste of our tax dollars.

We can look at the last 4 years right now and I believe that is what people did.

I'll open the bidding with a guy name Chris Stockwell, the $100,000 bar tab man!

 

[train]

he won't be able to tell us until he gets a look at the "cooked tory books" from the last 4 years. Let's see how really bad the province is now.

You are so naive.....every new government does that . The first thing on the agenda is.....well we didn't realize how bad things were .....sorry but we can't do all that we promised . The speech has already been written .

 

[thighspy]

Won by headline????

To Tilithurts--I totally agree with your assessment,of the Media having won this thing--They--It -- the Media should be indicted for tempering with the Democratic Process.

It hurts my "Libertarian" soul ,to see the brainwashing going on.
In a Country ,were you have a National Newspaper-supposedly conservative--owned by the biggest "LIBERAL in the country.
I guess that was Conrades Revenge.
Liberty--Where--O--where are you??????

Life is too short to hurry.

 

[train]

the idea was good- it was the taking education away from the cities and giving it welfare that screwed it up

While I agree with 99% of what you say red .....there was one serious flaw in amalgamating the city . At the end of the process the administration was to be handled by 50+ city councillors of limited abilities .

 

[hedway]

Regarding taxes, since the proposed PC tax cuts were targeted, they are no great loss to me.

I'm not a senior so no property tax break for me.
No kids in private school so no tax break for me.
Regarding mortgage interest deductibility? Value about $100 per year, cut out one massage session per year and that's paid for?
General tax cut scheduled for January? Tories already postponed that one last year, chances are because of deficit they likely will have postponed that again.

Get the idea why people didn't go for this? Sounds better than what it is.

In the meantime, at least the Liberals will freeze tuition at Universities. This alone will save me more money in the next few years that a bit of tax cuts.

I think most of my tax cuts in the last few years have gone to paying higher rates on the 407. Net effect for me? Squat.

 

[train]

Unions have one goal, to get as much money as possible out of whomever they work for. The majority of the public sector unions do not care if it bankrupts the taxpayers.

You probably mean ALL the unions and were just being polite . When is somebody going to have the balls to make unions report finances like public corporations and pay taxes on the obscene profits ( yes profits ....they are huge ) that they make ?

To alymister.....the biggest finacial institution in Ontario is the Teachers Pension Fund .

 

[james t kirk]

Well, There are truths in both arguements as i see it.

1. I do not want my taxes to go up.

But lets not jump the gun saying that Mcguinty WILL raise taxes. No-one knows that yet. If he does, he will be in for a rude awakening from my point of view

2. The tories made some huge mistakes while in power.

Hydro, Walkerton, 407, and were threatening to sell the LCBO to their fat cat friends.

3. The teachers ARE OUT OF CONTROL

Dalton had better keep a tight leash on these guys. While i have some respect for the profession, they are very well paid and underworked. If you don't like teaching, try the private sector. See how you like working 60 to 70 hour work weeks, weekends, traveling all on a regular basis. You work 9 months a year people and not that hard. When i was in school we had 34 to 38 kids in every class. None of this 25 kid crap they have now.

4. The tories treated the City of Toronto like shit for too many years.

I am glad to see that we the citizens of the City of Toronto proper sent the tories a very clear message. We are tired of being looked down at, at having services downloaded upon us, and seeing BILLIONS of tax dollars flow out year after year to finance outlying year after year after year. With the Tories, it was all TAKE and no give. Well well well, haven't the chickens come home to roost now.

5. The tories ran an idiotic campaign and looked like a bunch of disorganised fools.

The whole negative advertising thing made them look like a complete and utter joke. More than anything, it motivated me NOT to vote for THEM


And by the way, i voted for Mike Harris in the last election, so there. This time, I did not for all of the above.

 

[HowardHughes]

Okay...I'm weighing in here...

Mr. Hampton didn't have a snowball's chance in hell to form the opposition - what's his platform? Raise taxes and spend more? Did he ever hear of a guy named Bob Rae?

Eves - well, the guy looked like a dead Bella Legosi on a good day, and had the persona to match - however, he's a believer in supply-side economics - cut taxes, and the taxpayers will put more into the economy - I love the idea, but when the Feds don't comply...well, you're simply still getting screwed.

McGuinty - Essentially won the election by not really saying much - wanted to talk about taking the "high road" - which meant avoiding the questions - kind of like a Mayor Quimby, but for Ontario.

What really made me laugh throughout all of this is that commercial with the lady getting a haircut, and some guy reading the paper tells the stylist that she's getting a radical haircut - no matter what she does, and then relates that to us not voting.

Well, the sad truth of it is that with our political parties - we wouldn't be getting a radical haircut - but rather being told to take or leave an extra half inch.

 

[Bud Plug]

Various Clarifications

1. Why do we have two publicly funded school systems?

A. The courts did this one to us, not the politicians. All the politicians did was implement the decision of the courts. This happened during the Liberal government's tenure.

2. Why were the Tories headed for a deficit in 2003, despite their "balance the books policies"?

A. A great deal of government spending is determined through labour arbitration decisions to determine salaries. This is the case for the hospital sector, fire, judges and crown attorneys, police, ambulance, and, in many cases the education sector (where striking teachers are legislated back to work). Until governments can truly control public service wage costs, no government can avoid miscalculation of its budget. Of course, that's a different thing than intentionally incurring debt by overspending.

3. Can you make peace with teachers?

A. No. Even Bob Rae admitted that. Trade unionism does not work when there is no competition. In our education system, no teacher needs to worry that students will start attending some other school (and, therefore, the teacher will lose her job) if labour disputes are unreasonable and disruptive. It is a system where there are no negative consequences for unreasonable behaviour. How can you make peace within a system like that?

4. The price of hydro.

Before privatization, Ontarians (including corporations) paid a dramatically subsidized price for Hydro. This subsidy accumulated as enormous debt for Hydro. The cost of carrying that debt threatened the ability of Ontario Hydro to operate and produce power. Privatization was seen as a way to divide this debt between more producers and offload debt (or at least the accumulation of debt) from the government. This subsidization went on for so long that the sudden shift to market prices reflecting the true cost of electrical production shocked and infuriated the public. The PCs compromised their principles and got back into the game of rate freezes, and thererfore rate regulation. However, everyone should understand that these measures will not reduce the cost of producing electricity. If you don't pay for it in your hydro bill, you will pay for it in your taxes. If you pay for it in your hydro bill, you'll pay according to your use (including corporations, remember). If you pay in your taxes, middle class income earners will subsidize the energy consumption of the rich, the poor, and corporations. I'd rather not subsidize other people.

Unfortunately, so many issues get argued without acknowledging the fundamental facts which underpin both sides of the argument.

 

[Goober Mcfly]

 

[Goober Mcfly]

red: Neither. However, speaking of sheep, nice win by the Liberals last night.

 

[Neverenuff$]

I fear that Dullon McSquinty's promises will be like a $35 dollar full sevice ad in the "Eye"


To good to believe ....

 

[8.5" and Thick]

Victory?

And some think this will be good for the people of Ontario?
Manufacturing is leaving at a rapid pace already---now we will see acceleration of exiting jobs.
For Canadian Manufacturers:

Strong Canadian Dollar----bad.
Higher Corporate Taxes---bad.
Liberals in power..........really bad.


Lets watch efficiency decrease
Lets watch 'make work' projects increase
Lets watch taxes increase.
Lets watch deficit increase.
Lets watch big government increase.

Lean years are coming. What a shame, we were headed in the right direction. To bad people still buy 'spin' and how a candidate comes across on screen to ability.

 

[If One Were Two]

I was very dissapointed with the tories ad campaign this election. As much as I distrust McGuinty - and the liberals in general - I have to admit he had some pretty slick ads running.

The tories, on the other hand, ran a bunch of dull and uninspired spots voiced-over by Eves himself. Bad move, IMHO. Does anyone else think Eves sounds like he's in a constant state of pain? It's unfortunate, but superficial details like snazzy ad campaigns really do go a long way in influencing the general public's decisions.

On Harris, whether you loved him or hated him, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find another politician that kept his word as often as he did.

I'll give McGuinty the benefit of the doubt before passing judgement on his abilities as premier, but I can't help but feel that benefit is going to be very short lived.

edit: fixed a typo