Toronto Escorts

Israeli link possible in US torture techniques

loaded

New member
Jan 22, 2003
222
0
0
CHICAGO, Illinois: The head of the American defense contracting firm implicated in the torture of Iraqis at Abu Ghraib prison has close ties to Israel and visited an Israeli "anti-terror" training camp in the occupied West Bank earlier this year.

Jack London, chairman, president and CEO of CACI International Incorporated, traveled to Israel in January this year as part of a high-level delegation of US Congressmen, defense contractors and pro-Israel lobbyists, sponsored and paid for in part by the Jerusalem Fund of Aish HaTorah, a pro-Israel lobbying and fundraising group, and Greenberg Traurig, LLP, a prominent Washington law and lobby firm.

The purpose of the visit, according to a CACI press release, was "to promote opportunities for strategic partnerships and joint ventures between US and Israeli defense and homeland security companies."

As one of the highlights of the visit, London was presented with the Albert Einstein Technology Award by Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz at a gala dinner at Jerusalem city hall, for "achievements in the field of defense and national security."

Delegates also spent several hours in the occupied Syrian Golan Heights with Housing and Construction Minister Effie Eitam, a former Israeli general, who is notorious for his view that Israel should "transfer" - that is, expel - all the Palestinians.

According to the official itinerary for the Jan. 11-17 Defense Aerospace Homeland Security Mission, obtained from the Jerusalem Fund of Aish HaTorah, London's trip included a visit to Beit Horon, "the central training camp for the anti-terrorist forces of the Israeli police and the border police," in the occupied West Bank. The visitors were also "briefed by top experts," and were able to "witness exercises related to anti-terror warfare."

Two CACI employees, Steven Stephanowicz and John Israel, were named in the leaked report by US Major General Antonio M. Taguba on the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison. Taguba wrote that Stephanowicz, a "contract US civilian interrogator," "allowed and/or instructed MPs (military police), who were not trained in interrogation techniques, to facilitate interrogations by 'setting conditions' which were neither authorized or in accordance with applicable regulations/policy. He clearly knew his instructions equated to physical abuse."

John Israel, an interpreter, did not have the appropriate security clearance, according to Taguba.

Although Taguba recommended that Stephanowicz be terminated and his security clearance revoked, a May 5 statement from CACI confirmed, "at present, all CACI employees continue to work on site providing the contracted for services to our clients in that location." It added: "We have not received any information to stop any of our work, to terminate or suspend any of our employees."

Although no evidence has emerged directly linking CACI's involvement in the Abu Ghraib atrocities to Israel, it has long been known that the US military has been interested in "learning" from Israel's experience attempting to suppress the Palestinian uprising. In March 2003, for example, the AP reported that the "the (US) military has been listening closely to Israeli experts and picking up tips from years of Israeli Army operations in Palestinian areas and Lebanese towns."

This cooperation has included briefings of US personnel by Israeli officers, and, according to AP, "In January and February (2003), Israeli and American troops trained together in southern Israel's Negev Desert ... Israel has also hosted senior law enforcement officials from the United States for a seminar on counterterrorism."

Meanwhile, more evidence has emerged undermining the US thesis that the abuses at Abu Ghraib was the work of a "few bad apples." The Guardian reported that the "sexual humiliation of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison was not an invention of maverick guards, but part of a system of ill-treatment and degradation used by special forces soldiers that is now being disseminated among ordinary troops and contractors."

This system, known to insiders as "R2I," short for resistance to interrogation, also includes such methods as "hooding, sleep deprivation, time disorientation and depriving prisoners not only of dignity, but of fundamental human needs, such as warmth, water and food." These are all techniques long employed by Israel.

The visit of the US delegation that included the CACI head exposes a rarefied web of influence sharing in which US government officials and congressmen, defense contractors and lobbyists parcel out huge contracts, and siphon significant portions off to Israel.

As Batya Feldman of Israel's Globes financial news service put it, the visit provided Israeli companies with "an excellent opportunity to encounter big bucks in homeland security."
 

loaded

New member
Jan 22, 2003
222
0
0
continued

To help Israeli companies pry some of these "big bucks" loose, the visit included seminars for Israeli companies given by US pro-Israel lobbyists called "How to Approach the Homeland Security Department," and "How to Sell to the US Defense Department."

Israeli participants would have had a chance to test the helpful tips, since present on the trip were Assistant Secretary for Homeland SecurityRobert Liscouski and many leading US legislators, including top members of the US House and Senate Armed Services Committees, which jointly oversee tens of billions of dollars in military spending.
 
What is your point? Another conspiracy theory in the making?

I don't think in this case the torture methods are Israel exclusivity. To my knowledge, the "tortures" conducted by Shin Bet or A'man are usually psychological in nature, rather than pure physical. Only the die heart Hamas prisoners were placed in solitary confinement for 23 hours every day in prisons like the one in Meggido.

Plus, the Israeli interrogators, mostly the Arabists are relatively free nowadays given the fact that the Hamas, Islamic Jihads and Fatah-affiated terrorists are usually shaheed and they would rather die to go "paradise with 72 virgins" than alive and getting "humiliated" by the "Yahood" for interrogation.

BTW, the hooding, sleep deprivation all kinds of stuffs are NOT the techniques employed by Israel only. These are also part of the SERT program for all US pilots and Special Forces operatives to master towards the end of the training and they must pass before they can get their "wings" or "badges".

For the record, the only thing Israel links to Iraq would be in 93, the Mossad had intelligence that Saddam and his family would show up at specific time for his uncles funeral.

The original plan was to train Sayeret Matkal's commandos for assessinations. Each team will be equipped with top-secret Israeli made or heavily modified US missiles to strike the "targets" in different direction. The teams had been trained for several months just for this mission and waited for the IAF's helicopters to insert them into the hostile territory. Each member have extra bullets and poison pill just in case they got "compromised".

The plan never bear fruit because the last week of the training, with Sayeret Matkal officers and the almunis watching on. One of the team mistakenly loaded a real missile, instead of a dummy and the missile hit the "simulated convoys" played by fellow commandos. 5 commandos were killed and the operation was called off.

What an irony Saddam and his family indeed showed up at the funeral, only this time Israel did not want to take the risk. Also, one of the known Uday assessinations was rumoured to be the work by Israel.

BTW, Israel also bombed Osirak nuclear stations out of action in 1981 by their new F-16 fighter jets. The commander of the last sortie, the one that sealed the fate was the late Col. Ilan Ramon, who was one of the seven astronauts perished in Columbia shuttle disaster.
 

Kathy P

New member
Mar 27, 2002
491
0
0
Rosedale
www.netwave.ca
I think the key words are "anti-terrorism". If these terrorists didn't exist, "techniques" would need to be created by Israel, the U.S. or anyone else to deal with them notwithstanding any conspiracy theory.
 
Kathy P said:
I think the key words are "anti-terrorism". If these terrorists didn't exist, "techniques" would need to be created by Israel, the U.S. or anyone else to deal with them notwithstanding any conspiracy theory.
You mean would NOT need to be created, dont you??
 

loaded

New member
Jan 22, 2003
222
0
0
hahaha

Kathy P said:
I think the key words are "anti-terrorism". If these terrorists didn't exist, "techniques" would need to be created by Israel, the U.S. or anyone else to deal with them notwithstanding any conspiracy theory.
Since when is resisting occupation terrorism?
You seem to be ligitimizing torture.
I guess a comparison to facist regimes is out of question.
 
Re: hahaha

The Shake said:
What on Earth does that have to do with it?
Otherwise, why would he show possible Israelis links to what happen to torture in Iraq? Is he trying to convey a message that for some reason Israel is behind all of this?

Yeah, that's the conspiracy many Iraqis try to believe everytime when there's horrific suicide attacks or terrorists attacks in Baghdad. They blame all of these carnage by the Mossad or the Zionists if the person is religious, rather than blaming sectarian violence between the Sunnis and the Shites or the remanents of the Ba'athists or even hard-core criminals who got amensty by Saddam before the war.

When it comes to torture, the Americans do not need to learn the trick from Israel only. The Americans probably learn the tricks from Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey and Egypt.

BTW, occupation terrorism is the word used by the Palestinians, mostly from the Fatah factions. This is also true to the Fascist regimes, mainly targeting the "bulldozer" and his party.
 

Kathy P

New member
Mar 27, 2002
491
0
0
Rosedale
www.netwave.ca
I would call deliberately targetting civilians on buses and in cafes for the sole purpose of causing fear and death terrorism. Some of the Palestinian and Arab communities have tried to sanitize what has happened in Israel with the term "resisting occupation", but any way you slice it it is terrorism. Having said that, not everything Israel has done in the name of defence has been ethical or necessarily fair, but when faced with what they face every day, who are we to hold ourselves morally higher?

It is a very complicated topic, one with many legitimate points on both sides. The difference that I think you'll notice, however, is that while there are many Israeli's and Jews in general who are concerned about the Palestinians, you won't find too many reciprocating when Israeli children are blown to bits. In fact, to do so would be considered treason.

I don't think it is a question of whether or not we're "better" than they are in the Middle East. I think it's context. We don't face the challenges to basic survival that they do. When was the last time we stepped on a TTC bus in Toronto and had to contemplate whether we'd get home alive or not?
 

loaded

New member
Jan 22, 2003
222
0
0
do not derail the subject

Kathy, we all know where you stand... but this thread was meant to shed some light on the defense industry, the dollars, the connections and how it applies to what is going on in IRAQ. Right wingers are spreading the dollars around to their right wing friends. Hiring private contracters (also friends) and training them using their friends methods....

and Sweet Guy, yes Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey and Egypt use torture, just guess where they got their training, guess who supports their regimes to stay alive, guess who helped put them in power........
I was talking about Iraqi resistance, but to you every arab/muslim is a terrorist..
There is another thread for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.


"you won't find too many reciprocating when Israeli children are blown to bits. In fact, to do so would be considered treason." Kathy
"Do the civilized people in general have any idea what kind of animals they are dealing with? " Sweet Guy
I can argue with you all day, but you will never change your mind, because that would make the palestinians seem human, something you make sure you dont try to understand... but thats another subject

Sweet Guy, not so sweet
 
Re: do not derail the subject

loaded said:
I was talking about Iraqi resistance, but to you every arab/muslim is a terrorist..
Give me reasons why they are misunderstood.

Give me evidences what kind of positive contributions they have to the welfare of human beings throughout the history of the 20th century and right now.

Give me convincing proofs that other than oil, what kind of economic miracles they have achieved so far.

I NEVER say every Arab/Muslim is a terrorist. Timothy McVeigh is a Christian and he is a terrorist.

So as Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung and the list goes on.

BTW not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are Arabs.
 

tompeepin

Unbanned (for now) ;)
Mar 17, 2004
846
0
0
limbo
tv-celebs.com
Kathy P said:
I would call deliberately targetting civilians on buses and in cafes for the sole purpose of causing fear and death terrorism.
So would I. However there are many ways to terrorize, like say to destroy someone's livelihood. To make them worry about picking the olives and figs in their orchard so as not to get "accidentally" shot, with the lingering and constant worry that one day that orchard might be bulldozed. I remember hearing of a brave Rabbi and some Israelis who would accompany Palestinians so that they could harvest their crops.

Kathy P said:
Having said that, not everything Israel has done in the name of defence has been ethical or necessarily fair,
This is an area, which I fear that you do not want to explore too deeply. Understandably it evokes very deep-seated emotions for you. If you were Palestinian I think that we would hear a differing viewpoint.

Kathy P said:
but when faced with what they face every day, who are we to hold ourselves morally higher?
Is that an excuse or an explanation for your rationalization? Like I said in another thread ... when you do what you claim to abhor, you become what you abhor. And Evil cannot be equated or compared, nor is one form of evil better than another.

We definitely are not morally higher; we would do the same thing if we were in either position. Except, I would like to think, take the lives of the innocent. http://www.usisrael.org/jsource/History/King_David.html

Kathy P said:
I don't think it is a question of whether or not we're "better" than they are in the Middle East. I think it's context. We don't face the challenges to basic survival that they do. When was the last time we stepped on a TTC bus in Toronto and had to contemplate whether we'd get home alive or not?
We just have the luxury of not being put in that position. Human animals fight for survival and territory as any other animal. We just like to rationalize what we do by means of intellectual manipulation and fancy word games.
 

loaded

New member
Jan 22, 2003
222
0
0
Re: Re: do not derail the subject

sweet guy said:
Give me reasons why they are misunderstood.

Give me evidences what kind of positive contributions they have to the welfare of human beings throughout the history of the 20th century and right now.

Give me convincing proofs that other than oil, what kind of economic miracles they have achieved so far.

I NEVER say every Arab/Muslim is a terrorist. Timothy McVeigh is a Christian and he is a terrorist.

So as Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung and the list goes on.

BTW not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are Arabs.
The misunderstanding is on your end, get your f**king greedy hands off, that includes Iraq and Palestine and there wont be any more misunderstandings.

How exactly are you supposed to achive anything under those circumstances. Innovations come only in a right environment, but you and your beloved IDF made sure that all that is on the minds of the population is survival for the past 50 years.

There are numerous academics/scholars/artists/entertainers in the wesrtern world that have proved to be successful given the right environment
below is a link with the list
http://www.aaiusa.org/famous_arab_americans.htm

you should add sharon and Netanyahu under your list of terrorists
 
Re: Re: Re: do not derail the subject

loaded said:
How exactly are you supposed to achive anything under those circumstances. Innovations come only in a right environment, but you and your beloved IDF made sure that all that is on the minds of the population is survival for the past 50 years.

There are numerous academics/scholars/artists/entertainers in the wesrtern world that have proved to be successful given the right environment
below is a link with the list
http://www.aaiusa.org/famous_arab_americans.htm

you should add sharon and Netanyahu under your list of terrorists
So you are a Palestinian.

Regarding those Arab-Americans who achieve marvellously in the right environment, they just seize the day and assmiliate themselves into the American society, a melting pot I should say. They are just a few who really appreciate and contribute to the home country, United States aka the Great Satan by many.

How would you describe those Arab Americans in some borough in New York near the WTC attending Islamic schools and learn something hateful about America? Those schools got interviewed by 60 minutes.

Why didn't you put George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney on your "terrorists" list?

BTW, I am NOT an Israeli or Jewish.
 
Toronto Escorts