Is this Justice?

[Aardvark154]

Some may recall case of Phoebe Prince the Irish teenager who was hounded to death by her schoolmates in Massachusetts in January 2010. The various cases resulting from this are now coming to trial.

In the cases of the immoral "Boy Friend" and his on and off 'girlfriend' and head "Mean Girl" there has been a plea agreement where they have pled guilty to misdemeanor criminal harassment, dropping the two felony charges of violation of civil rights and statutory rape. I have no problem with this - what they are pleading to is what they are truly guilty of.

But to the point: on a charge which has a statutory maximum sentence of two and half years, they were sentenced today to 100 hours of community service and a year's probation with no jail time!

Was this justice? Personally I believe that at least four months confinement followed by at least a year's probation would have been far more appropriate.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2011/05/phoebe_princes_2.html

 

[Aardvark154]

She was mentally ill and she hung herself. She probably needed help but no one saw it as is often the case.

Let us blame the victim. Committing suicide after having been viciously bullied is a sign of mental illness? Not to mention having a "big man on campus" who you trusted set you up and then utterly betray you.

But what does a different sentence accomplish? Not much other than perhaps your own satisfaction.

Pour encourager les autres

 

[blackrock13]

i heard the new and couldn't believe it.

WTF!

 

[Aardvark154]

I didn't blame the victim. Betrayal to Suicide is huge step, as is bullying to suicide. To believe you can't go on and its better to die is not something rational, it is one result of Mental Illness.

Really? Seemingly here you go again she wouldn't have committed suicide unless she was nuts. Since when is deep depression from being mercilessly bullied an underlying mental illness?

All too often we like to throw folks in jail, seclude them and just forget about them, in so doing we forget about ourselves and never address the problem, just hide it away.

A year and a half all but four months suspended is not "forgetting someone in jail" Four months imprisonment followed by 14 months on probation seems far more appropriate a sentence for what actually occured than 100 hours of community service.

 

[red]

it seems light. they wont learn anything from this

 

[kissykisskiss]

it seems light. they wont learn anything from this

and it won't be much of a discouragement for others who feel the urge to bully someone to death.

 

[red]

and it won't be much of a discouragement for others who feel the urge to bully someone to death.

agreed- but the reality is that punishment of others doesn't deter bullies or criminals from doing what they want to do.

 

[K Douglas]

I followed this story closely when it first came out and the horrific stuff this girl had to endure was sickening. How are we supposed to take bullying seriously if lawyers are copping ridiculous plea agreements like this. Utterly shameful.

 

[Aardvark154]

I followed this story closely when it first came out and the horrific stuff this girl had to endure was sickening. How are we supposed to take bullying seriously if lawyers are copping ridiculous plea agreements like this. Utterly shameful.

As I stated at the top, the charge they plead to was entirely appropriate. However, I very strongly disagree with the sentences.

 

[afterhours]

agreed- but the reality is that punishment of others doesn't deter bullies or criminals from doing what they want to do.

tell us more

 

[kissykisskiss]

What do you think 4 months in jail would accomplish for them?

They would suffer at least for a short time,the evil little F.CKS.Being bullied is a mind F.ck.It is cruel,demeaning,harassing,judgmental at times violent.It makes the victim feel,fear,insecurity,desperation,loneliness,abused,assaulted,a complete loss of self confidence.It makes the abused not want to go to school,leave the house,get up in the morning.Causes,anxiety,lack of self worth,depression and ultimately hopelessness which is the main cause of suicide.YES,they need to SUFFER for tormenting this poor girl relentlessly and most likely enjoying it.Put them in jail for a year.Have other would be bullies recognize the PUNISHMENT for this type of behavior and know it is UNACCEPTABLE and will be dealt with to the full extent of the law.I worked with teens in crisis so I know what I am talking about.

 

[Aardvark154]

BTW since when is the point of the sentencing hard to deter others? Is that even ethical, to overly punish one person to justify in some warped way that it deters others?

1) the sentence I feel would have been more appropriate would not have been a hard sentence. 2) Ask any high profile tax cheat

 

[oldjones]

Deterrant effect is unproven and hotly debated, though few would entirely deny it exsts. When stiff sentences are not connected with swift apprehension and speedy trial they have even less effect on others. It is certainly—as NorthPole says—wrong to set an offender's punishment by what it means to others (you hope) and not according to their offence and circumstances. certainly a system that ranks punishments by the seriousness of offences and is consistently applied can be part of even the dumbest crook's thought-processes. If she has any.

But in the case of young first offenders it seems stupid and clearly counter-productive to base their sentence into a system proven to encourage criminal behaviour and graduate recidivists on some arbitrary code of sentence-length rather than on the possibility that they can be steered back onto the right path.

Imagining that someone who failed to find it already will somehow chance upon it given the gift of four month's incarceration among criminals borders on serious self-deception. If it worked, we'd have solved the crime-problem centuries ago.

 

[red]

tell us more

the average criminal does not contemplate the consequences of their actions. they don't think about getting caught. the average citizen does but not those inclined to crime.

 

[red]

I followed this story closely when it first came out and the horrific stuff this girl had to endure was sickening. How are we supposed to take bullying seriously if lawyers are copping ridiculous plea agreements like this. Utterly shameful.

yes I agree. while i think a sentence like this will have little effect on bullies- i think it will have a profound impact on those being bullied. they are more likely to either strike out or kill themselves

 

[Cobster]

Some may recall case of Phoebe Prince the Irish teenager who was hounded to death by her schoolmates in Massachusetts in January 2010. The various cases resulting from this are now coming to trial.

In the cases of the immoral "Boy Friend" and his on and off 'girlfriend' and head "Mean Girl" there has been a plea agreement where they have pled guilty to misdemeanor criminal harassment, dropping the two felony charges of violation of civil rights and statutory rape. I have no problem with this - what they are pleading to is what they are truly guilty of.

But to the point: on a charge which has a statutory maximum sentence of two and half years, they were sentenced today to 100 hours of community service and a year's probation with no jail time!

Was this justice? Personally I believe that at least four months confinement followed by at least a year's probation would have been far more appropriate.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2011/05/phoebe_princes_2.html

Four months confinement?????????????????????????
That's being nice, wow, I would have put them in for double that, PLUS 300 HOURS community service.
I saw this the other day on the news and was shocked at their punishment, wtf was the judge thinking?

 

[oldjones]

I caught a radio report yesterday of a sentence that that required the offender to serve a couple of days every comimg year on the anniversary of the offence for quite a few years into the future, as well as the punishment-now time.

That strikes me as putting the judge's options to good and thoughtful use. Sorry I have no other info or reference.

 

[fuji]

It was the case of the guy who met up with depressed people on the internet and persuaded them to commit suicide. He gets some minimal sentence now, and has to check in to jail on the anniversary of his victim's deaths for the next ten years.

 

[my name Peggy]

Although bullying has always existed, it hasn't been as malicious as it is today, especially with girls. Go on youtube to watch girls(and boys) getting beaten to shit while people cheer on Gladiator-style-sometimes on the playground!! Or on Facebook, where pages are created like "Like This Page if You Think Meghan's A Slut"- It's sickening, sad and only shows how much our culture has gone into the shitter.

It also needs to be dealt with regardless of the 'predisposed' nature of some people. There are people who were bullied and didn't kill themselves yet still live with the emotional scars; it just goes to show how Psychological Torture can be so devastating even on strong willed people.
That being said, I would agree though that while the crimes were abhorrent, a more severe punishment will do little to deter people from being a bully,which is part of what makes dealing with it so challenging.
Just like more severe punishments on crime do little do lower the crime rate statistically, I also suspect the same will hold true for teens who bully. That isn't to say, however, they should get off scot-free, but it does need to be addressed more at the root of the issue and preventatively, rather than solely as a reactive measure.
In the meantime, parents and schools need to wake the hell up and better monitor their children and help them build their self esteem and teaching compassion towards others and reprimanding acts of bullying, so kids being bullied will feel like someone has their back in this crazy world and that bullies stop thinking they can get away with it.

 

[The Fruity Hare]

How did you arrive at doubling it and giving them 300 hrs ?
It doesn't sound like you've ever spent anytime in Jail, based on how quick you are to dole it out.

Perhaps he hasn't done anything to warrant being jailed. Have you?

As to the bullying, you seem to dismiss it lightly but as has been mentioned here before it can be overbearing for some people, making them outcasts dreading the moment they leave the house to be picked on constantly. Nowadays even being at home is no escape, with Facebook pages being set up to harass and accuse innocent victims.

Many of them see no other way out and turn to suicide. This does not mean they suffered from mental illness before their tormenting began, however an accumulation of bullying can cause them to feel their is no hope for a normal life and ending it seems the only escape.