Is the housing bubble about to burst

[CLOUD 500]

I don't think you understand demographics. We have an aging population, all those boomers are now either retired or very close to it. Some stats show that by 2030, a quarter of the Canadian population will be over the age of 65. Which means they are not working, but living off off CPP, OAS, and whatever their retirement savings are. It also means that we'll be spending more on them, which requires a workforce to support them and to fill the jobs they've retired from. Without immigration, our population will decline. That is a fact. As mentioned, out natural birthrate is below replacement levels, as it is in most industrialized countries (US, Japan, UK, Germany, etc. ). That basically means the country will not be able to support itself, leading to a drop in our standard of living.

Now, Trudeau's government recognized this, and opened up immigration. On some level, it was the correct thing to do. HOWEVER - I think we can all agree that it was executed very poorly. It isn't an easy thing to do in a way that doesn't squeeze our social services or housing. On some level, if they planned for this better, it could have worked, but it would've taken multiple years to lay the ground work (like building more housing), but the challenge is knowing where the immigrants would like to live. I mean, Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver have always been magnets for new immigrants, but we're seeing more going to places like Edmonton. So, where do you build the housing if we allow the immigrants to settle where ever they like? (I should point out the housing is NOT just for immigrants. More housing options would help most Canadians with lower rents and options to buy, but could hurt prices for homeowners).

The bottom line is Canada needs more immigrants. I get the feeling that many on this board are OK with that, as long as they're European. Which is sad. But, I think we will be able to look at Japan in the coming decade to see how they respond. According to this article:

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/03/30/business/economy-business/japan-worker-shortfall-study/

Japan will need 11 million more workers over the next 15 years, as the workforce is expected to contract by 12%.

So, unless Canada can have a MASSIVE baby boom that puts the 1940s/50s to shame, we'll need to get more folks from across the globe to maintain our country and standard of living. But, there are also opportunities here. If global warming continues, the far north could become significantly more hospitable, meaning we could have major cities up there in 50 years. Who knows...

Those are lies being told by the Trudeau Liberals to justify his mass immigration policy. This you cannot ignore economics and talk about demographics. Trudeau's is in the Century Initiative and they want never ending GDP growth. They are just concerned about geopolitics. Trudeau had his self-serving agenda to have that seat on the UN Security Council. But his open border policy caused surging poverty. GDP per capita has dropped. You will never be able to address declining productivity till you address the housing crisis caused by mass immigration.

Now lets get to the economics and reality of the situation. The retirement age was based on the reality of 100 years ago. But lets get real, the problem we see today is being caused by because people are living longer then they did a 100 years ago. Advances in technology and medicine is a big factor. What they need to do is adjust to the new reality, raising the retirement age by 2 years would reduce the financial burden considerably. In Denmark the retirement age is 70.

But if the goal was to increase the working population then why give full immigration to the retired parents of new arrivals? Harper gave them super visa but Trudeau changed it because he wanted rapidly increasing population at any cost. Seems counterproductive. They get access to universal healthcare and can collect OAS. Does not make much sense to me. Immigrants 65 and over who just arrived to Canada are not eligible for pension. So when they apply for social assistance in Ontario they are granted OW, which is Ontario Works. It is a kind of welfare, it includes money for food, shelter, clothing, and other household costs, the cost of prescription medications, etc.. Then they are fast tracked to automatic ODSP which is Ontario Disability Support Program which provides financial assistance to those who are disabled and cannot work, until they meet all the eligibility criteria to get OAS which is 10 years residency. OAS is Old Age Security which is basically the equivalent of Welfare but for those who are 65 and over. This clogged up ODSP for people who truly need the assistance.

Then Trudeau brought in the worst type of immigration which are asylum seekers. Many are fake refugees. They get free hotels, monthly paychecks, healthcare benefits, free cellphones, among many other things. Apparently refugees costed the Canadian economy billions of dollars. So if the case is to have more productive people to pay for OAS then why are they wasting so much money for asylum seekers? They are leechers and do not contribute anything. 40 years ago refugees did not get much but now they are showered with so much social benefits. Trudeau needed to vet who comes into the country. We need productive immigrants.

Then there is the economics of this. Mass immigration caused a housing crisis. The young generation will be living much longer with their parents due to unaffordable costs. The prices are way too high. Food prices are also out of control. That is what happens with you got a rapidly growing population. Look at every third world country and they all have one thing in common, a rapidly growing population. This is not sustainable at all.

Dvous11 said it right, Trudeau's mass immigration policy was nothing but a ponzi scheme. And paying people to have kids is in essence turning kids into a commodity.

 

[silentkisser]

First, Trudeau nor the Liberal party had an open border policy. Stop parroting MAGA talking points, because that did not happen in reality. And, as for the poverty rate, it's actually lower than it was a decade ago...So...swing and a miss, strike two?

You are correct, that the retirement age can and will likely be increased, mostly because people are living longer, and because of the way retirement planning is happening in the country, few people will likely have enough of a pension/retirement savings to just stop working.

But the reality here is that the majority of economists say that we need to increase our population. How that happens is likely going to be through immigration. You are probably going to keep hating it, because the folks that will come are likely going to be predominately brown or black. And, the reality is, as I said, Trudeau messed it up. We can agree on that. Too many folks too quickly. But, the reality is most western countries are going to need an influx of folks to maintain their economies, even if people work to age 70. This isn't the talking point the right/xenophobes love, but it is the reality.

 

[jeff2]

We do not need massive immigration for the CPP. The CPP is in fine shape and it only pays out to people who paid into it. OAS/GIS is another story as it comes out of general tax revenue.
We have had massive immigration but still lousy productivity and GDP per capita. This has been especially bad in recent years in Canada but the productivity issue dates back to the early 80s and for many countries.
Canada's economy is too reliant on housing. This reliance has created an over-investment in real estate at the expense of other sectors, like machinery, equipment, and technology, leading to lower productivity growth and increased financial risk due to high levels of mortgage debt.

 

[CLOUD 500]

First, Trudeau nor the Liberal party had an open border policy. Stop parroting MAGA talking points, because that did not happen in reality. And, as for the poverty rate, it's actually lower than it was a decade ago...So...swing and a miss, strike two?

You are correct, that the retirement age can and will likely be increased, mostly because people are living longer, and because of the way retirement planning is happening in the country, few people will likely have enough of a pension/retirement savings to just stop working.

But the reality here is that the majority of economists say that we need to increase our population. How that happens is likely going to be through immigration. You are probably going to keep hating it, because the folks that will come are likely going to be predominately brown or black. And, the reality is, as I said, Trudeau messed it up. We can agree on that. Too many folks too quickly. But, the reality is most western countries are going to need an influx of folks to maintain their economies, even if people work to age 70. This isn't the talking point the right/xenophobes love, but it is the reality.

Do you got Trump Derangement Syndrome? Stop parroting the Trudeau Liberals. Canada's problems has been caused by the Trudeau Liberals. It them in power, not Trump. As for poverty, do you watch the news? The talk daily is about ever increasing food insecurity, homelessness, the housing crisis, etc.. It was never this bad.

How does Canadian housing affordability fare versus other G7 nations?

The OECD's latest quarterly survey offers insights into the G7’s comparative housing prices

www.mpamag.com

^^^^ Canada has the most expensive housing market in the G7 country.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-highest-level-income-inequality-recorded-1.7349077

^^^^ Canada has the highest gap between rich and poor ever. All thanks to Trudeau's mass immigration policy. And yes he had an open border policy. Hundreds of thousands of people were entering and were not being checked. Trudeau made it easier for asylum seekers to enter.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ircc-immigration-housing-canada-1.7080376

^^^^ No. Economist do not say that unless they are politically bought. They warned Trudeau some years ago that his uncontrolled mass immigration policy will cause a major affordability crisis.

Trudeau also was obsessed with never ending GDP growth which is why he had an open border policy. But ECONOMISTS measure the economy by GDP per capita and that is the true measure of prosperity. You can increase GDP by increasing the population and giving people tons of welfare and social benefits, but greater numbers only means that. Each person is more poor compared to 40 years ago, each person's spending power is less but greater numbers made up for the GDP. Economists also do not recommend increasing population, corporations and politicians do because it benefits the wealthy the most.

Increasing retirement age is one thing to do, but also not giving full immigration to the retired parents of new arrivals is another thing to do. Just give them super visa like Harper did, but no OAS and no universal healthcare. Asylum seekers are a big reason the hospitals are overcrowded and wait times are long. And this is not the talk the woke far-left like. If they new anything about economy Canada would not be in the shithole it is right now. It will take over a decade to repair Trudeau's damage. Carney is Trudeau 2.0.

Here is a viscous cycle. Mass immigration, cost of living going up, people having less kids because of cost of living, we need more immigrants, cost of living goes higher, less people having kids, we need more immigration. See, this is cyclical. You cannot tax a nation into prosperity.

Btw, the damage started by Mulroney, a Progressive Conservative like Ford. He was a globalist also and wanted mass uncontrolled immigration. He started it, and since the 80s the gap between the rich and poor began to grow. Mulroney also setup the Immigrant Investor program which was behind Vancouver becoming the most expensive real estate market in Canada.

Another big issue with Canada is our declining productivity. When productivity goes higher peoples cost of living goes up which was the case between 1945 to 1973 oil crisis. But with Liberal policies of over taxation, blocking using our oil to export it out, over regulation is making it hard for companies to increase productivity.

 

[silentkisser]

Do you got Trump Derangement Syndrome? Stop parroting the Trudeau Liberals. Canada's problems has been caused by the Trudeau Liberals. It them in power, not Trump. As for poverty, do you watch the news? The talk daily is about ever increasing food insecurity, homelessness, the housing crisis, etc.. It was never this bad.

How does Canadian housing affordability fare versus other G7 nations?

The OECD's latest quarterly survey offers insights into the G7’s comparative housing prices

www.mpamag.com

^^^^ Canada has the most expensive housing market in the G7 country.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-highest-level-income-inequality-recorded-1.7349077

^^^^ Canada has the highest gap between rich and poor ever. All thanks to Trudeau's mass immigration policy. And yes he had an open border policy. Hundreds of thousands of people were entering and were not being checked. Trudeau made it easier for asylum seekers to enter.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ircc-immigration-housing-canada-1.7080376

^^^^ No. Economist do not say that unless they are politically bought. They warned Trudeau some years ago that his uncontrolled mass immigration policy will cause a major affordability crisis.

Trudeau also was obsessed with never ending GDP growth which is why he had an open border policy. But ECONOMISTS measure the economy by GDP per capita and that is the true measure of prosperity. You can increase GDP by increasing the population and giving people tons of welfare and social benefits, but greater numbers only means that. Each person is more poor compared to 40 years ago, each person's spending power is less but greater numbers made up for the GDP. Economists also do not recommend increasing population, corporations and politicians do because it benefits the wealthy the most.

Increasing retirement age is one thing to do, but also not giving full immigration to the retired parents of new arrivals is another thing to do. Just give them super visa like Harper did, but no OAS and no universal healthcare. Asylum seekers are a big reason the hospitals are overcrowded and wait times are long. And this is not the talk the woke far-left like. If they new anything about economy Canada would not be in the shithole it is right now. It will take over a decade to repair Trudeau's damage. Carney is Trudeau 2.0.

Here is a viscous cycle. Mass immigration, cost of living going up, people having less kids because of cost of living, we need more immigrants, cost of living goes higher, less people having kids, we need more immigration. See, this is cyclical. You cannot tax a nation into prosperity.

Btw, the damage started by Mulroney, a Progressive Conservative like Ford. He was a globalist also and wanted mass uncontrolled immigration. He started it, and since the 80s the gap between the rich and poor began to grow. Mulroney also setup the Immigrant Investor program which was behind Vancouver becoming the most expensive real estate market in Canada.

Another big issue with Canada is our declining productivity. When productivity goes higher peoples cost of living goes up which was the case between 1945 to 1973 oil crisis. But with Liberal policies of over taxation, blocking using our oil to export it out, over regulation is making it hard for companies to increase productivity.

Everything is a conspiracy when you don't understand how anything works. Income inequality is not the poverty rate. In fact, poverty is significantly lower now after Trudeau, though it is slightly in the past couple of year. But, it is still lower than the Harper years. You can look it up. In fact, I encourage you to do that.

As for the need for immigration....Canada has ALWAYS had immigration. In the post war period, over a million people came to Canada. Now, you probably don't mind that because they were predominantly white Europeans. But the reality has always been Canada needs immigrants. We have a vast country, we have the space. A larger population means we have a larger domestic market. That equals more buying power. Ever heard of the BRIC countries? Brazil, Russia, India and China were considered the big four economies that were expected to dominate the global economy in the coming decades. Russia....well, they are not in that boat anymore, but Brazil, India and China sure as fuck are. And, you may notice that the one thing all three share are...top ten in global population. China & India are over a billion, while Brazil is around 218 million (by some estimates).

As for you confusing "cycle of immigration..." where the fuck does "tax a nation into prosperity" pop up?

Finally, I am not a Trudeau fan. But, I will defend him (and I've also defended Harper) for things that are either beyond their control or if they've done something I can agree with. Immigration is a tricky issue, and I will reiterate this: Trudeau was right to want more immigrants, BUT - they fucked it up by having too many too quickly without better planning. You may think that we can just raise the retirement age and overcome demographics. It will not work. Now, having a million new people without enough housing is fucking STUPID. And, just so we are clear, I think the temporary foreign workers program is mostly bullshit. I am totally fine with bringing in season labour to work on farms and things like that, but it has certainly been abused for things like hiring TFWs for things like managing a Tim Hortons. That shit needs to end. And, I am sure there are certain areas of the economy, like tech, that might need an influx of talent for a short period of time...

Look, while we might disagree on a lot of this, these are very complex socio and economic issues that no government has ever gotten right at first (if ever). I don't really have any skin in this game, for the most part. My mother is an immigrant, my wife's parents are immigrants. They are all proud Canadians. I personally (obviously) have few issues with immigration. I am not concerned about the number of folks from Asia or Africa that might want to move here, nor do I really care what their religion is. I do not think there are any "incompatible" immigrants. Yes, it might take them some time to adjust to what Canada is, but imagine if you immigrated to, say, Japan? You would experience a lot of culture shock. Things you do in North America would be viewed as incredibly rude in Japan. Like, blowing your nose in public is very taboo, as is kissing or hugging someone (virtually all PDA). Hell, even maintaining eye contact can be seen as a sign of aggression or disrespectful. The point is, ignoring the demographic time bomb will just delay the inevitable. Right now, Canada has an opportunity to attract the best and the brightest in the world, because America has become very hostile to them. We could get more engineers and doctors in this country and help offset issues with healthcare. Canada's point system is probably the best way to get high calibre immigrants. Is it perfect? Of course not, nothing is. But, bringing in talent to become Canadians will only help us.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Everything is a conspiracy when you don't understand how anything works. Income inequality is not the poverty rate. In fact, poverty is significantly lower now after Trudeau, though it is slightly in the past couple of year. But, it is still lower than the Harper years. You can look it up. In fact, I encourage you to do that.

I do not deal in conspiracies, I deal in facts and it is obvious you are ignoring it. I posted a link about that in my previous post but it looks like to skipped it. I invite you to check it about Canada having the biggest income inequality ever. It is posted by CBC btw. As for poverty, I mean you can see it the explosion of homelessness. They said that if things do not change homelessness will quadruple in 2030.

Here's how many people will be at risk of homelessness by 2030, according to this AI

An artificial intelligence algorithm has estimated that Canada’s homeless population will almost double by 2030. Researchers fear a lack of action will make this prediction come true.

www.ctvnews.ca

^^^^ Here is an article to confirm what I said to you. You must be a homeowner so you probably are not affected by this. But if you had to rent, I hear a 3 1/2 apartment in Toronto is going for $2400 a month these days. That is absurd. Till these issues are addressed it will only keep on getting worse.

Canadians are facing higher levels of food insecurity - Statistics Canada

We’ve all seen prices in grocery stores lately. Wherever you live in Canada, there is no question that grocery bills are getting more expensive. From 2021 to 2022, prices for food purchased from stores increased by 9.8% on average nationally.

www.statcan.gc.ca

^^^^ Food insecurity at an all time high. I am not sure what more you need to accept that poverty is much higher and it was caused by Trudeau's open border policies and out of control spending.

As for the need for immigration....Canada has ALWAYS had immigration. In the post war period, over a million people came to Canada. Now, you probably don't mind that because they were predominantly white Europeans. But the reality has always been Canada needs immigrants. We have a vast country, we have the space. A larger population means we have a larger domestic market. That equals more buying power. Ever heard of the BRIC countries? Brazil, Russia, India and China were considered the big four economies that were expected to dominate the global economy in the coming decades. Russia....well, they are not in that boat anymore, but Brazil, India and China sure as fuck are. And, you may notice that the one thing all three share are...top ten in global population. China & India are over a billion, while Brazil is around 218 million (by some estimates).

We need some but not this much. What we need is responsible immigration. We do not need asylum seekers or Uber drivers. We need engineers, doctors. Trudeau let anyone in because of his obsession with never ending GDP growth. See here you parroted Trudeau, to want bigger because you get more influence over the international stage for geopolitical politics. But bigger is not always better at least for the average joe working a job. It is great for the wealthy, corporations and politicians.

As for you confusing "cycle of immigration..." where the fuck does "tax a nation into prosperity" pop up?

Canada has very high taxes. We pay more in taxes then in housing and food. Giving out welfare and subsidies does not create wealth, this is redistribution of income. But Socialists would never understand this.

Finally, I am not a Trudeau fan. But, I will defend him (and I've also defended Harper) for things that are either beyond their control or if they've done something I can agree with. Immigration is a tricky issue, and I will reiterate this: Trudeau was right to want more immigrants, BUT - they fucked it up by having too many too quickly without better planning. You may think that we can just raise the retirement age and overcome demographics. It will not work. Now, having a million new people without enough housing is fucking STUPID. And, just so we are clear, I think the temporary foreign workers program is mostly bullshit. I am totally fine with bringing in season labour to work on farms and things like that, but it has certainly been abused for things like hiring TFWs for things like managing a Tim Hortons. That shit needs to end. And, I am sure there are certain areas of the economy, like tech, that might need an influx of talent for a short period of time...

Trudeau was the most corrupt lieing POS garbage ever. Totally corrupt. This is a man that should be in jail for the crimes he committed including treason. But he got away with it. He only cared for himself. He wanted that seat on the UN council so badly that he wasted hundreds of millions of taxpayers money to send to foreign countries, he opened the floodgates while knowing damn well that it would have caused an affordability crisis.

Look, while we might disagree on a lot of this, these are very complex socio and economic issues that no government has ever gotten right at first (if ever). I don't really have any skin in this game, for the most part. My mother is an immigrant, my wife's parents are immigrants. They are all proud Canadians. I personally (obviously) have few issues with immigration. I am not concerned about the number of folks from Asia or Africa that might want to move here, nor do I really care what their religion is. I do not think there are any "incompatible" immigrants. Yes, it might take them some time to adjust to what Canada is, but imagine if you immigrated to, say, Japan? You would experience a lot of culture shock. Things you do in North America would be viewed as incredibly rude in Japan. Like, blowing your nose in public is very taboo, as is kissing or hugging someone (virtually all PDA). Hell, even maintaining eye contact can be seen as a sign of aggression or disrespectful. The point is, ignoring the demographic time bomb will just delay the inevitable. Right now, Canada has an opportunity to attract the best and the brightest in the world, because America has become very hostile to them. We could get more engineers and doctors in this country and help offset issues with healthcare. Canada's point system is probably the best way to get high calibre immigrants. Is it perfect? Of course not, nothing is. But, bringing in talent to become Canadians will only help us.

With this agree. But the way Trudeau did it was all wrong.

 

[richaceg]

Funny how nowadays...a townhome dips in value to 600K in pickering, realtors now saying it's a "buyer's market"...lmao.

 

[Climberx]

Funny how nowadays...a townhome dips in value to 600K in pickering, realtors now saying it's a "buyer's market"...lmao.

They get paid for prices remaining artificially high. Time for a new incentive system

 

[CLOUD 500]

As for you confusing "cycle of immigration..." where the fuck does "tax a nation into prosperity" pop up?

I wrote "You cannot tax a nation into prosperity". Trudeau loves Socialism and he found any way to increase taxes to fund his out of control spending spree and to redistribute income. In a nutshell, where does the revenue for government social programs come from? Who pays taxes? Government social programs rely on the private sector, they produce, the government takes it away to give it to others. When government starts giving subsidies to corporations, that is not generating wealth, that is simply redistributing wealth. That does not increase productivity because taxpayers have to fund that. Same with giving people $2000 to sit home during covid. It causes major inflation. There are two ways to fund government revenue, taxes or printing more bills. Trudeau printed lots of bills, he increased money supply to find his government social programs. But having more money in circulation means it devalues the currency, if you have more of something it looses value. Hence why there is so much inflation. Also increasing taxes hinders economic development, less investors will want to invest due to having too much taxes. Here is a big reason why Canada has a productivity crisis. To increase living standards for all, not just the wealthy Canada needs to have policies that increase productivity. So it comes back to the point I said, you cannot tax a nation into prosperity (this is a famous Churchill quote), that is like being insides a bucket and trying to lift yourself up.

 

[silentkisser]

I do not deal in conspiracies, I deal in facts and it is obvious you are ignoring it. I posted a link about that in my previous post but it looks like to skipped it. I invite you to check it about Canada having the biggest income inequality ever. It is posted by CBC btw. As for poverty, I mean you can see it the explosion of homelessness. They said that if things do not change homelessness will quadruple in 2030.

Here's how many people will be at risk of homelessness by 2030, according to this AI

An artificial intelligence algorithm has estimated that Canada’s homeless population will almost double by 2030. Researchers fear a lack of action will make this prediction come true.

www.ctvnews.ca

^^^^ Here is an article to confirm what I said to you. You must be a homeowner so you probably are not affected by this. But if you had to rent, I hear a 3 1/2 apartment in Toronto is going for $2400 a month these days. That is absurd. Till these issues are addressed it will only keep on getting worse.

Income inequality does not necessarily mean there are more people living in poverty. You do understand that they are two separate measures? I mean, one looks at the gap between rich and the lower classes, while the other measures who lives on less than what is considered poverty. The gap is a problem, I will agree with you on that. But, if you did a little Google search with something like "has the Canadian poverty rate declined since 2015," you would get data that shows the Canadian poverty rate is lower than it was a decade ago. Now, also, the article here is using AI. AI is not infallible. AI can have hallucinations. I'm not saying it might not be correct, but I would take any report that leverages AI to create the data with a MASSIVE grain of salt.

As for the price of rent, yes, it is too damn high. But our provincial government controls that lever. Maybe the new Bill 60 will actually spur development for rental apartments. But, one of the major issues is NIMBY bullshit. Like, Oakville last year rejected a federal grant worth $25 million from the Housing Accelerator Fund agreement, which was to increase density. That hurts affordability because demand still vastly outstrips supply. Mississauga, Burlington, Brampton and Tecumseh have also pushed back on plans to boost density.

Canadians are facing higher levels of food insecurity - Statistics Canada

We’ve all seen prices in grocery stores lately. Wherever you live in Canada, there is no question that grocery bills are getting more expensive. From 2021 to 2022, prices for food purchased from stores increased by 9.8% on average nationally.

www.statcan.gc.ca

^^^^ Food insecurity at an all time high. I am not sure what more you need to accept that poverty is much higher and it was caused by Trudeau's open border policies and out of control spending.



We need some but not this much. What we need is responsible immigration. We do not need asylum seekers or Uber drivers. We need engineers, doctors. Trudeau let anyone in because of his obsession with never ending GDP growth. See here you parroted Trudeau, to want bigger because you get more influence over the international stage for geopolitical politics. But bigger is not always better at least for the average joe working a job. It is great for the wealthy, corporations and politicians.






Canada has very high taxes. We pay more in taxes then in housing and food. Giving out welfare and subsidies does not create wealth, this is redistribution of income. But Socialists would never understand this.

It might surprise you to know that our tax rate isn't as bad as some would like you to believe. Compared to the US, we get a hell of a lot of value for our taxes. So, we get well-run schools (for the most part) all across the province. We get healthcare (yes, there are issues, but you try dealing with a US insurance company), and we get competent police (for the most part). In the US, you might have significantly lower income tax or sales tax, but you get hammered on things like health insurance. In the US, an average family of four pays close to $27,000/year for their employer sponsored health insurance. And that doesn't even cover co-pays and deductibles. Or the hassle of fighting the insurer when they reject life-saving treatments or because you might've been rushed to a hospital in an emergency that was out of your network....Also, I had a co-worker who used to live in New Jersey. Low income and sales tax, but the property taxes were astronomical, because they also paid for the school system and other fees. So, yeah, they get less taken off of their paycheque for income tax and see less tax when they buy stuff....but I would argue they pay significantly more in other areas than Canadians.

As for wealth redistribution, the only people who should really see that is the billionaire class. Like, honestly, does Elon Musk and his ilk need hundreds of billions of dollars? I would also argue that big business stays afloat due to social programs. You should check out the stats for how many Walmart and McDonald's employees are on food assistance in the US, even if they work full-time. In fact, Walmart actually has information for employees on how to apply for SNAP and other benefits.

Food insecurity is an issue, I agree with you. But, a lot of Canada's current economic issues are due to Trump and his tariffs/economic policies. I'm not saying Trudeau gets a clean slate and doesn't deserve any blame....but at the same time, I think the issue is more nuanced than a stark black or white issues.

Trudeau was the most corrupt lieing POS garbage ever. Totally corrupt. This is a man that should be in jail for the crimes he committed including treason. But he got away with it. He only cared for himself. He wanted that seat on the UN council so badly that he wasted hundreds of millions of taxpayers money to send to foreign countries, he opened the floodgates while knowing damn well that it would have caused an affordability crisis.



With this agree. But the way Trudeau did it was all wrong.

I am not a Trudeau fan. Was he our worst PM...probably not, but he sure isn't in the top ten. I supported him at first, but I agree, the scandals really sucked my support. I mean, I wouldn't say he broke laws that require a criminal punishment, because while PP might beleive that, I don't think there was a real chance of conviction. But, the fact that he kept stepping in shit just boggles my mind. I mean, smarter politicians would get burned once, then tighten things up to avoid even a hint of scandal. I mean, I think chronologically it was the Aga Khan vacation thing that bit him first...Did he learn his lesson? Nope....just idiotic.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Income inequality does not necessarily mean there are more people living in poverty. You do understand that they are two separate measures? I mean, one looks at the gap between rich and the lower classes, while the other measures who lives on less than what is considered poverty. The gap is a problem, I will agree with you on that. But, if you did a little Google search with something like "has the Canadian poverty rate declined since 2015," you would get data that shows the Canadian poverty rate is lower than it was a decade ago. Now, also, the article here is using AI. AI is not infallible. AI can have hallucinations. I'm not saying it might not be correct, but I would take any report that leverages AI to create the data with a MASSIVE grain of salt.

You say poverty has gone down but the reality is it does not support what you say. When you get the homeless population exploding, more and more people going to food banks, multiple people sharing an apartment, it does not support what you say.

More Canadians are living in poverty than previously thought, says report

A new report from Food Banks Canada says 25 per cent of Canadians are experiencing a poverty standard of living, compared to the official Statistics Canada poverty rate of 10 per cent.

www.ctvnews.ca

^^^^ The news does not say that either. Poverty is not about a measure of income, it is more about what is left after all necessary expenses. To me that is the true measure of poverty and when you analyze it from that then you see the numbers are much higher. Plus there are a lot of hidden homeless, people living with their parents, going from friend to friend, sleeping on the couch etc.. I would say the situation got really bad since covid, Trudeau grossly increased immigration and that was a major factor of more poverty since prices shot up but income has not kept pace and that is the real issue. To have a increased quality of life productivity must go up. Having uncontrolled immigration, more taxes, and more regulations is not going to help that.

As for the price of rent, yes, it is too damn high. But our provincial government controls that lever. Maybe the new Bill 60 will actually spur development for rental apartments. But, one of the major issues is NIMBY bullshit. Like, Oakville last year rejected a federal grant worth $25 million from the Housing Accelerator Fund agreement, which was to increase density.

You are half right, you cannot ignore uncontrolled immigration. Even if all these situation was corrected, it takes time to construct new housing. If you are bringing in so many people, it will never balance out. Even economics state even if supply increases, out of control demand will always keep prices high. So two things must be done, we need a moratorium on immigration for some years to let housing supply catch up. Bill 60 will be very bad for renters. Ford is clearly catering to the owner class. I doubt this bill will do much to spur more rental apartments and even if it did the prices would be too damn high. This bill will protect bad landlords and there are many of them.

That hurts affordability because demand still vastly outstrips supply. Mississauga, Burlington, Brampton and Tecumseh have also pushed back on plans to boost density.

This sentence is golden. See what I mean, most people do not want mass immigration and this sentence confirms what I said yet the Federal government is stuffing this down our throats. People want the wide open spaces, own a single detached home. People want wide open roads and not much traffic. That is what people came to Canada for. No one wants to live in over priced condos, with little narrow streets with constant traffic and noise.

It might surprise you to know that our tax rate isn't as bad as some would like you to believe. Compared to the US, we get a hell of a lot of value for our taxes. So, we get well-run schools (for the most part) all across the province. We get healthcare (yes, there are issues, but you try dealing with a US insurance company), and we get competent police (for the most part). In the US, you might have significantly lower income tax or sales tax, but you get hammered on things like health insurance. In the US, an average family of four pays close to $27,000/year for their employer sponsored health insurance. And that doesn't even cover co-pays and deductibles. Or the hassle of fighting the insurer when they reject life-saving treatments or because you might've been rushed to a hospital in an emergency that was out of your network....Also, I had a co-worker who used to live in New Jersey. Low income and sales tax, but the property taxes were astronomical, because they also paid for the school system and other fees. So, yeah, they get less taken off of their paycheque for income tax and see less tax when they buy stuff....but I would argue they pay significantly more in other areas than Canadians.

I never said the US is an example to take after. But you can see that taxes does not benefit the working class. Sure we got healthcare but many are waiting hours in the emergency room, and some even died waiting. Clearly the system is not working and this is across the entire country. In Quebec, people cannot find a family doctor, the wait is over 5 years to find one. So yes we pay taxes but are not really getting the services for the taxes we pay.

As for wealth redistribution, the only people who should really see that is the billionaire class. Like, honestly, does Elon Musk and his ilk need hundreds of billions of dollars? I would also argue that big business stays afloat due to social programs. You should check out the stats for how many Walmart and McDonald's employees are on food assistance in the US, even if they work full-time. In fact, Walmart actually has information for employees on how to apply for SNAP and other benefits.

Actually guys like Elon Musk are the ones who get away with taxes. Government is in bed with corporations and giving them corporate welfare. It is hilarious to think how the government is using taxpayers money to help rich people get richer. No, the one that pays the most for wealth redistribution are the middle class. They work only to have half their income taken in taxes to be given to refugees. Think about this one, I checked and a guy earning $90,000 in Ontario will pay over $20,000 in taxes. What he gets after is roughly $67,058. It is almost always the average joe working a job that gets penalized. It does not give people incentive to produce more hence the productivity crisis. A billionaire like Elon Musk, even if he payed more taxes he will simply pass on the costs to the customer. Either way you look at it, such policies punish the people that they claim to want to help the most.

Food insecurity is an issue, I agree with you. But, a lot of Canada's current economic issues are due to Trump and his tariffs/economic policies. I'm not saying Trudeau gets a clean slate and doesn't deserve any blame....but at the same time, I think the issue is more nuanced than a stark black or white issues.

Lol You really got Trump Derangement Syndrome. Trump was in power since Jan 2025, so it has been about 11 months. The food insecurity issue has been a problem since 2021. It was the Liberals in power since 2015. Sorry, cannot blame Trump here. He is not helping with his trade wars, true but this is not on him. This is 100% because of the Liberals. Ford is no better, he is a Liberal btw.

I am not a Trudeau fan. Was he our worst PM...probably not, but he sure isn't in the top ten. I supported him at first, but I agree, the scandals really sucked my support. I mean, I wouldn't say he broke laws that require a criminal punishment, because while PP might beleive that, I don't think there was a real chance of conviction. But, the fact that he kept stepping in shit just boggles my mind. I mean, smarter politicians would get burned once, then tighten things up to avoid even a hint of scandal. I mean, I think chronologically it was the Aga Khan vacation thing that bit him first...Did he learn his lesson? Nope....just idiotic.

True say, this guy was just too corrupt and he threw two women under the bus to save his skin. Of course he will not get convicted, he bought off everyone and got away with it. Ask yourself this, would any normal person ever get away with that Trudeau did? Trudeau would not have even remained in power for as long as he did if it were not for Singh, he kept on propping up the Liberals to push his agenda to bring lots of Sikhs to Canada.

 

[nottyboi]

I have to admit I am skeptical about food bank data. What % of people are impoverished and what % are shameless? That crazy bitch Trudeau booted out of the party deserved it. She was a TERRIBLE AG.

 

[CLOUD 500]

I have to admit I am skeptical about food bank data. What % of people are impoverished and what % are shameless? That crazy bitch Trudeau booted out of the party deserved it. She was a TERRIBLE AG.

True. Trudeau opened the floodgates to refugees many of whom are fake refugees. A lot of them are the ones at the food banks collecting free food. These people are a problem as they are leechers but Trudeau just cared about never ending GDP growth that he open the floodgates to anyone for the sake of increasing the population.