Is Purity Culture the motivation/starting point/framework behind the manosphere/mgtow...others?

[TheQuestion]

PS: I am not trying to offend anyone. I am only asking since you guys give excellent answers.

I have noticed is that Purity Culture( The Culture arising from the Protestant Religion and maybe some Catholic stands like the Opus Dei) seems to have very similar talking points to all the "manosphere groups."

Purity Culture: Women who have sex outside of marriage are sinful, not worthy of dating them.
Manosphere: Nowadays, women sleep around too much; a man cannot date them.

This whole "Redpill" movement only makes sense if you grew up in a very religious household. Where you assumed everyone has very idealistic values.

For example,

College grad: I was dating this girl, and I thought we were soulmates, I didn't have a job at the time, but she ended up leaving me for a rich guy who took her on vacation.
College grad on the red pill: I realized women are hypergamous, and they will leave you.

This whole "red pill philosophy" seems common sense in areas of the world that are not religious. Of course, if you are broke, you will not likely be attracted to someone else unless you have a blind commitment to validation relationships.

It seems to me that Purity culture is very judgmental. You can have different beliefs from others without shaming people/"holding them accountable."

 

[luvyeah]

Fat shaming and slut shaming definitely had their purpose.

 

[The Fox]

The whole philosophy is for people who don’t get out much or engage in conversations with real people.

 

[poker]

Bill Burr sums it up pretty well...

 

[jcpro]

There are women you marry and there are women you play with. Rarely the two meet. A relationship set within clear social and religious guidelines is not perfect, but it does have a solid footing to survive.

 

[TheQuestion]

@Everyone
What I am trying to get at is that many of this guys seemed outwardly very judgmental people. Even if I have my private reservations of who I marry/date I don't think I should be throwing insults at women who want to start an Onlyfans..etc.

 

[canada-man]

You never own your woman, its just your turn. In this video, we discuss the notion men need to understand that women are not permanent fixtures in your life, they are temporary. Always remember, she isn't yours, it's just your turn.

 

[canada-man]

STOP Chasing Women & Start Living Your Life!

 

[Valcazar]

PS: I am not trying to offend anyone. I am only asking since you guys give excellent answers.

I have noticed is that Purity Culture( The Culture arising from the Protestant Religion and maybe some Catholic stands like the Opus Dei) seems to have very similar talking points to all the "manosphere groups."

I'm not sure why you are linking "Purity Culture" to what you are. (Yes, there is a specific White Evangelical thing called "Purity Culture" but that doesn't seem to be what you are talking about.)
Can you list what the elements of this "Purity Culture" are? Is it just "Women are sinful and bad and must be judged?"

In general, "The manosphere" rose up in a culture that has been heavily influenced by various forms of Christianity. It isn't at all surprising there would be overlap.
I'm trying to figure out if you are asking a more specific question about a more specific parallel.

 

[angrymime666]

@Everyone
What I am trying to get at is that many of this guys seemed outwardly very judgmental people. Even if I have my private reservations of who I marry/date I don't think I should be throwing insults at women who want to start an Onlyfans..etc.

while I dont believe in insulting people, there are people who I choose not to associate with. people make choices that I would not, and for the woman who may be or is in my life she must be on the same page as me. I will judge her, as thats what people do with the people the want to have in their life. it a normal things as judging is how we assess a threat to your life, whether they will be a good mother, a good person by your standards etc.

I found that as I grew older what I wanted from a woman in my life has evolved.

 

[Jenesis]

while I dont believe in insulting people, there are people who I choose not to associate with. people make choices that I would not, and for the woman who may be or is in my life she must be on the same page as me. I will judge her, as thats what people do with the people the want to have in their life. it a normal things as judging is how we assess a threat to your life, whether they will be a good mother, a good person by your standards etc.

I found that as I grew older what I wanted from a woman in my life has evolved.

There is a difference between a woman not being a good match for you and judging her to be worthless and no good to anyone because you don’t agree with her bedpost number.

Or the judgement of ALL women based on a few. Women have only fans now, so all woman unless god-fearing, are trash.

 

[JackBurton]

Why anyone would deny themselves the pleasures of this world is beyond me?

If I had to describe myself and my attitude towards life experiences, I’ll go with Anthony Bourdain’s where he just simply says he’s an “Enthusiast “

Life is short. Fuck, breed, raise kids, read great literature, travel, do some shrooms on top of a mountain, drink wine with dinner, exercise in what you love etc. Stoic philosophy works great to get you to discipline for yourself but it’s a prettY Spartan life for too long where you will miss out on life’s pleasures.

 

[angrymime666]

There is a difference between a woman not being a good match for you and judging her to be worthless and no good to anyone because you don’t agree with her bedpost number.

Or the judgement of ALL women based on a few. Women have only fans now, so all woman unless god-fearing, are trash.

but there are worthless people. men, women and children.

worth and value are quite personal and people exercise this judgement quite easily. I would say worth is a sliding scale for people.

 

[Jenesis]

but there are worthless people. men, women and children.

worth and value are quite personal and people exercise this judgement quite easily.

You are missing what I am saying.

I dated a very physically, emotionally, sexually abuse alcoholic. I will not date a person who heavily drinks again. That is a personal choice.

But I don’t judge all those who drink and think they are all abusive assholes.

See the difference? One is judging ALL, one is personal opinion for partner choice.

 

[TheQuestion]

I'm not sure why you are linking "Purity Culture" to what you are. (Yes, there is a specific White Evangelical thing called "Purity Culture" but that doesn't seem to be what you are talking about.)
Can you list what the elements of this "Purity Culture" are? Is it just "Women are sinful and bad and must be judged?"

In general, "The manosphere" rose up in a culture that has been heavily influenced by various forms of Christianity. It isn't at all surprising there would be overlap.
I'm trying to figure out if you are asking a more specific question about a more specific parallel.

What I am getting at is the following. It seems that the manosphere two sides:

Rational side: The rational side makes sense. For instance, men in certain states in America are at a disadvantage in divorce courts. This statement makes sense, and we can organize around it in an unemotional manner. Or you could even choose to take action as an individual to avoid the disadvantage like not getting married in America..etc.

Irrational side: This irrational side has a lot of "moral policing" this includes demonizing, insulting, getting into arguments directed towards women, sex workers, hobbyists, and many other people who they see as "degenerate." This moral policing seems to be inspired, influenced, or come from many religious groups or movements like Purity Culture, Puritanism, Opus Dei. I'm not saying that there's a 1 to 1 equivalent. What I am saying is that it appears that many of these guys have been socialized in this religious environment which has these conservative chastity values and talking points hence why they use it as a starting point to their ideas.

Highly secular environments: I have seen in places around the world that are highly secular. That people don't really care what others do with their sexuality as long they either do it in private or they mostly don't go out of their way bothering others. Let's put the Onlyfans example. Say a guy who buys Onlyfans photos many people in a religious environment or religious environment would say, "He's a loser", "He should be a real man and not pay." While people in a highly secular environment would say, "Its his own life its that what he wants to do" or even voice price concern, "Make sure you area not paying too much since you can get a better deal somewhere else." The same with women who want to be sex workers.

 

[TheQuestion]

There is a generational shift taking place right now. For the past sixty years women have been bashing and ridiculing men. Spineless boomers are okay with that since it didn't affect them, but millenials and gen z are now pushing back. Why? Because modern women hold men to traditional masculine role standards while absolving themselves of traditional female role standards.

While a man is still expected to be the breadwinner, provide protection ect. Women can't even be bothered to cook or clean and then on top of that they think it's perfectly okay to flash all their bits on instagram and only fans while still expecting traditional roles from their male partners.

Modern women are not wife material and unfortunately make bad mothers. But that only becomes a problem for a man if they want to get married which you would have to be stupid to even consider seriously in this day and age.

Hence why I believe many of these guys are religious motivated or want to go back to a different time. In my opinion, I think this whole, "Redpill" and other similar movements is Puritanism 2.0. It simply has a different name. What I'm trying to get at is that there is a different path for men and those who don't want to get married or live in the suburbs. Guy who want to hobby, explore the world, do PUA abroad.

 

[NotADcotor]

They are from completely different sources.

The purity thing is all about that Jesus and publicly making a vow of chastity while getting knocked up on the downlow, or getting fucked in the ass because you love Jesus, the good lord would want it that way*

MGTOW seems to have two basis. First are dudes who got divorced and feel they got a rough right [and in many cases they have] and are like "fuck that shit" and others who see these dudes and figure, not me brah. The second look at what it takes to get a woman and figure masturbation and hookers ain't so bad after all. Not attractive enough to make approaching women worth it, couldn't be bothered to pretend to be something they are not [I can into passion, I can into bad boy?] and all the efforts needed to become desirable.

There are some manosphere and MGTOW types who are all about how woman are slags because the Jesus as one might expect but it seems to be much more from a place of bitterness.


*

 

[angrymime666]

You are missing what I am saying.

I dated a very physically, emotionally, sexually abuse alcoholic. I will not date a person who heavily drinks again. That is a personal choice.

But I don’t judge all those who drink and think they are all abusive assholes.

See the difference? One is judging ALL, one is personal opinion for partner choice.

you no longer have that person in your life. you made a judgement that the person is not good for you(felt unsafe, self esteem was destroyed). why, because they were shit(behavior).. its not about the entire group of drinkers but the individual. it can be about an entire group of people if as person chooses to do so.

paul benardo is a worthless human being. he has no value to society. a crack head is worthless because they bring no value to society.

we make choices based on our judgments. this person is an asshole so I choose not to have them in my life.

is this person worth keeping in your life, no. they have no worth or value to you.

 

[Jenesis]

you no longer have that person in your life. you made a judgement that the person is not good for you(felt unsafe, self esteem was destroyed). why, because they were shit(behavior).. its not about the entire group of drinkers but the individual. it can be about an entire group of people if as person chooses to do so.

paul benardo is a worthless human being. he has no value to society. a crack head is worthless because they bring no value to society.

we make choices based on our judgments. this person is an asshole so I choose not to have them in my life.

is this person worth keeping in your life, no. they have no worth or value to you.

I don’t know why you are arguing with me.

I’m saying not all people are the same and you judge them individually. Seems you are saying the same?

 

[Valcazar]

What I am getting at is the following. It seems that the manosphere two sides:

Rational side:

Irrational side:

The manosphere is mostly irrational, but if you look at this as "a side focused on actual policy or legal issues" and "a side focused on judging women" then yes.
But as I said before, there is no reason to expect a movement that grew up in a culture with thousands of years of influence from Abrahamic religions to not have been influenced by those religions.

You could say the same thing about the "rational" side. The whole idea of "rational" and whether it is important has a long history in the culture, and the manosphere reflects that, too.

Highly secular environments: I have seen in places around the world that are highly secular. That people don't really care what others do with their sexuality as long they either do it in private or they mostly don't go out of their way bothering others. Let's put the Onlyfans example. Say a guy who buys Onlyfans photos many people in a religious environment or religious environment would say, "He's a loser", "He should be a real man and not pay." While people in a highly secular environment would say, "Its his own life its that what he wants to do" or even voice price concern, "Make sure you area not paying too much since you can get a better deal somewhere else." The same with women who want to be sex workers.

I don't know what these "highly secular environments" you are talking about are. Are there specific regions or countries you claim are highly secular?

"People in the manosphere share the cultural traits of the surrounding culture" is kind of normal.