Is my friend an alcoholic???

[james t kirk]

Ok,

I met a woman recently and started dating her, albeit casually.

She's great in most ways, except ONE.

I think she has a bit of a drinking problem.

1. I am pretty sure she drinks every day.

2. Every time I have been around her, she drinks (I do not.)

3. Every time we go out for dinner, she always orders at least 2 alcoholic beverages.

I am not a big drinker. In fact, I am a seldom drinker. I could easily go 6 months without alcohol passing my lips and it wouldn't phase me in the least. I just don't have the taste for the stuff, nor desire it. I can easily go out for dinner and just order water or a soft drink.

My female friend on the other hand always seems to be drinking, but has never been drunk around me. But she can really hold her booze boy.

Example, I show up at her house for dinner, and she is already into the wine (by herself). More wine at dinner. Usually some of her friends show up and they all elect to head off to some loser bar where there is more drinking done.

Example, I show up at her house to meet 2 of her friends for dinner and she already has a glass of wine going (again, by herself). We go out to the restaurant and she has 2 martinis before dinner, shares a bottle of wine at dinner and pounds back 2 shooters after dinner.

She is still quite functional.

Example, she was to meet me on a Thursday night at my office for some work I was doing for her. She shows up at 8:00 pm. and kisses me and I can taste / smell the alcohol on her.

So I call her on it.

I tell her that I think she is great and all, but that I think she has a drinking problem. (I have never ever called anyone on something like this before.)

She asks me if I think she is drunk, and I tell her no, but why is it that you have been drinkig every single time we get together. She tells me that it's just a social thing.

Blah blah blah.

She makes no commitment to reduce her drinking, but I notice the next time we go out she orders a tea. But the next time after that, I show up at her house unannounced and you guessed it, she's been drinking again.

My question is, Is this woman showing signs of being an alcoholic?

What is the definition of an alcoholic?

I have been with many other women that were "normal drinkers" to me. They would consume alcohol on some occasions, even get tipsy on some occasions, but the key word is some. They could easily go out to dinner and NOT drink, or didn't drink every day. This one can't seem to do that.

 

[langeweile]

http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/

These guys might have some answers for you.

 

[hambone]

A sure sign of alcoholism is drinking every day, not necessarily to the point of being drunk either. The more you drink the better you can tolerate it without showing the effect. I lived with one for years.

 

[TheNiteHwk]

20 questions...

Here is a link to a questionnaire for potential alkies. These 20 questions are used by treatment centres and doctors etc worldwide. You may ask her to take these 20 questions or you may view them and consider your own thoughts as to whether she qualifies or not. If she or you answer for her any 3 or more as yes... then chances are she is for sure an alkie.

http://www.aatoronto.org/20questions.htm

 

[langeweile]

Excessive drinking is not necessarily a sign of alcoholism. It is more about what happens to your mind and behaviour when you drink.
I have seen guys/gals drink like fish, without ever showing signs of alcoholism. I have seen people have a few drinks and an show all the signs.

 

[james t kirk]

Re: 20 questions...

Here is a link to a questionnaire for potential alkies. These 20 questions are used by treatment centres and doctors etc worldwide. You may ask her to take these 20 questions or you may view them and consider your own thoughts as to whether she qualifies or not. If she or you answer for her any 3 or more as yes... then chances are she is for sure an alkie.

http://www.aatoronto.org/20questions.htm

I took that test for her putting in answers that I thought were true.

She had 9 yeses.

When I clicked on the result and it said if you have more than 3 yeses, I was amazed.

 

[Asterix]

One of the misconceptions about alcoholics is that they get visibly drunk and lose control. Many have a high tolerance to alcohol and appear to function just fine. It might take years before it finally catches up with them.

 

[langeweile]

Re: Re: 20 questions...

I took that test for her putting in answers that I thought were true.

She had 9 yeses.

When I clicked on the result and it said if you have more than 3 yeses, I was amazed.

Alcoholism is baffling, cunning and all powerful.

 

[papasmerf]

Re: Re: 20 questions...

I took that test for her putting in answers that I thought were true.

She had 9 yeses.

When I clicked on the result and it said if you have more than 3 yeses, I was amazed.

JK

if you are truly concerned you can broach the subject with her. And if she refuses and you know she has been drinking, you might consider when she drives to turn it over to the police.

A stop and sunsequent conviction will carry court mandated counseling.

But beware and never tell her you did it.

 

[banshie]

Alcoholism is a disease. Some people suffer from it and others don't. Because somebody drinks a lot does not necessarily mean this person is an alcoholic.

The test is whether this person simply has to drink. For example, I drink far more than I should, but I am not dependent on it. I can, however, simply not drink for days at a time without it bothering me at all. I have been at two-week retreats where there has been no alcohol available, and I haven't missed it.

 

[james t kirk]

Frankly the thing that keeps this casual is her drinking.

She's smart, funny, good looking, has a great job, not a slouch, not needy, she can cook even, but this drinking thing is unusual for me.

A couple of times when I went out with her I was saying in my mind (before I called her on it) "Don't order booze" "Don't order booze"

And then she'd order a glass of something.

sigh

 

[papasmerf]

Frankly the thing that keeps this casual is her drinking.

She's smart, funny, good looking, has a great job, not a sloch, not needy, she can cook even, but this drinking thing is unusual for me.

A couple of times when I went out with her I was saying in my mind (before I called her on it) "Don't order booze" "Don't order booze"

And then she'd order a glass of something.

sigh

Is a non smoker likely to assume someone smokes too much???

is a non drinker likely to view someone as drinking too much?

 

[The Baroness]

It sounds as if she is in denial...either that or ok with her drinking...in which case you can do as many tests as you want on her behalf and talk to her about it until you're blue in the face, but the one thing you need to realize is that the problem is hers and she is the only one who can address it.

All you can do, if you choose to stick around is make sure not to enable her in any way and to let her know that you will support her is she decides to quit.

 

[Paul Waters]

Regardless of whether she has a problem, it is clear that *you* have a problem with her.

Move on. There is someone else out there who will be better for you.

 

[mtl_guy]

a lot of my friends think i drink way too much.
i dont believe i do. and i dont believe ive got a problem

so come on, all you AA types. tell me im in denial.

i have booze, usually wine with dinner most every day.
i try to stay away from it at lunch.

weekends involve lots of booze. dinner with my s/o and another couple. a party. a lounge. whatever. everyone drinks.

ive never missed work or been late. never fukced anything up because of drinking.

id probably be richer without booze. but that could be said for paying whores too.

guaranteed that all my friends who dont drink or who only have a glass of wine at Xmas or very special occaisons would say Im a drunk but I say FUCKEM.

Heres a good resources for the recreational drinker.

http://www.moderndrunkardmagazine.com/

 

[langeweile]

a lot of my friends think i drink way too much.
i dont believe i do. and i dont believe ive got a problem

so come on, all you AA types. tell me im in denial.

i have booze, usually wine with dinner most every day.
i try to stay away from it at lunch.

weekends involve lots of booze. dinner with my s/o and another couple. a party. a lounge. whatever. everyone drinks.

ive never missed work or been late. never fukced anything up because of drinking.

id probably be richer without booze. but that could be said for paying whores too.

guaranteed that all my friends who dont drink or who only have a glass of wine at Xmas or very special occaisons would say Im a drunk but I say FUCKEM.

Heres a good resources for the recreational drinker.

http://www.moderndrunkardmagazine.com/

Nobody but you knows if you an alcoholic or not. Don't let anybody tell you different.
If you think you have a problem you probably do, if not...well...don't worry.

 

[rama putri]

Another funny thread.

Guess all the French and Italians are in denial! Put in the Germans and Russians too. And have you ever seen what the boys in Japan do after a long day at work? Hell in college, I guess I was an alcoholic binge drinker. I don't drink a drop now, but I didn't attend AA either. I'm probably still in denial.

Keep pestering her and you WILL make her an alcoholic. LMAO.

 

[langeweile]

Re: Re: Re: Re: 20 questions...

The line from "How it works" is actually "alcohol, cunning, baffling, powerful."

Yup, you are right, and I should know better, 13 years and counting...one day at a time.

 

[TheNiteHwk]

I was smart, funny, good looking, not needy, not a slouch and had a great job when I was closing in at rock bottom of my addiction.

We addicts can be very high functioning individuals and show very few, if any, signs of our addiction to the outside world.

Any addiction is a very complex thing and almost impossible for those who are not addicts to understand. If you want a glimpse into the thought patterns and lives of individuals, read the "personal stories" link here. It's an online version of The Big Book which is the basis for the AA program.

http://www.recovery.org/aa/bigbook/ww/

This is so very true. I for example have always been the top performer (highest sales) in my office from the day I started here. And you know what I am not even putting in 100% effort most of the time. This is not to brag... but to reiterate the point that us alkies/addicts are very highly functional. One of the #1 traits of alkies is to be in denial. We also like to be very independent. We don't want to ask for help or rely on anybody for support of any kind. (Trust issues) We always try to look good on the outside to hide what is really going on the inside. When I am #1 in sales in my office I get pats on the back and congrats from the boss. On the outside I am smiling and saying Thank You. Meanwhile I am feeling guilty and ashamed because I know that week I came to work 3 times hung over and did not put in 100% effort or I could have done even better. Alkies always do well, but never well enough in their own minds. Another trait most alkies have is we always feel different. We are not the same as the rest of you. And none of you understand. So we don’t talk about it… because you would never understand anyway. For many of us alcohol (and for some of us drugs as well) cures all this. When we drink we suddenly feel normal. We fit it. People love us. We feel accepted. The problem is that after some time (maybe a few years for some) it stops working. We have to drink more and more to get the same effect of that ‘normal’ feeling back again. And eventually no matter how much we drink or drug it never comes back. The insanity of this disease is that even though it’s not working any more we still have a compulsion to continue to drink anyway. Then it starts to cause some of the problems mentioned or covered in the 20 questions. We however are still in denial. We are in denial because by now we have lowered ourselves to ‘lower companions’. People just like us. So for us from looking at our associates and environment it all looks OK because everyone we know is doing the same as us. Also the stigma that society puts on alkies/druggies is too much to bear. If one was to admit they have a problem could cause some backlash that would not be very easy to handle. I could go on and on.

It’s true that there is such a thing as heavy drinkers who are not alkies. I don’t know your friend so cannot say for sure. Also as some here have suggested it’s really up to the person himself or herself to say. I will say this though… a couple of things you said ring bells for me. She has friends who are like her. They go out to in your words ‘loser’ bars. In your opinion 9 questions on the questionnaire are YES. IMO the potential for here being an alkie are very high. As some of said here maybe you need to get to some Al-Anon meetings to learn more.

After I post this I may be a bit busy… but I have some links in mind that might help. I will come back and post them later.

 

[james t kirk]

This is so very true. I for example have always been the top performer (highest sales) in my office from the day I started here. And you know what I am not even putting in 100% effort most of the time. This is not to brag... but to reiterate the point that us alkies/addicts are very highly functional. One of the #1 traits of alkies is to be in denial. We also like to be very independent. We don't want to ask for help or rely on anybody for support of any kind. (Trust issues) We always try to look good on the outside to hide what is really going on the inside. When I am #1 in sales in my office I get pats on the back and congrats from the boss. On the outside I am smiling and saying Thank You. Meanwhile I am feeling guilty and ashamed because I know that week I came to work 3 times hung over and did not put in 100% effort or I could have done even better. Alkies always do well, but never well enough in their own minds. Another trait most alkies have is we always feel different. We are not the same as the rest of you. And none of you understand. So we don’t talk about it… because you would never understand anyway. For many of us alcohol (and for some of us drugs as well) cures all this. When we drink we suddenly feel normal. We fit it. People love us. We feel accepted. The problem is that after some time (maybe a few years for some) it stops working. We have to drink more and more to get the same effect of that ‘normal’ feeling back again. And eventually no matter how much we drink or drug it never comes back. The insanity of this disease is that even though it’s not working any more we still have a compulsion to continue to drink anyway. Then it starts to cause some of the problems mentioned or covered in the 20 questions. We however are still in denial. We are in denial because by now we have lowered ourselves to ‘lower companions’. People just like us. So for us from looking at our associates and environment it all looks OK because everyone we know is doing the same as us. Also the stigma that society puts on alkies/druggies is too much to bear. If one was to admit they have a problem could cause some backlash that would not be very easy to handle. I could go on and on.

It’s true that there is such a thing as heavy drinkers who are not alkies. I don’t know your friend so cannot say for sure. Also as some here have suggested it’s really up to the person himself or herself to say. I will say this though… a couple of things you said ring bells for me. She has friends who are like her. They go out to in your words ‘loser’ bars. In your opinion 9 questions on the questionnaire are YES. IMO the potential for here being an alkie are very high. As some of said here maybe you need to get to some Al-Anon meetings to learn more.

After I post this I may be a bit busy… but I have some links in mind that might help. I will come back and post them later.

Interesting post.

My friend is highly educated and quite motivated no doubt.

The "loser bars", yeah, I went once with her and met up with her friends. They are all regulars in this one place where they go to watch bands and eat chicken wings and get half toasted. It seems to be almost a weekly thing.

I was sitting there with her the first time we went and looking around and the place was full of middle age drunks. I was just screaming to get out of there.

Anyway, next time she wanted to go, I took a pass on this place. And the time after that, and the time after that, and the time after that.

Same crowd, same band, same table, same waitress, same food, same everything all the time.