Two and a half years, and 1.5 billion dollars later, and NASA still hasn't figured out how to keep foam from damaging the shuttle to the point of risking a catastrophic reentry. While the damage they have found on the shuttle's tiles in the current mission is not considered critical, they also admit that they are not sure. Given the enormity of real problems requiring our immediate response in the world, is it really necessary to pursue this program, especially when any new scientific benefits appear scant? Is there any real benefit to all this, or is it mostly an extension of our ego as a species?
Is Manned Space Flight Worth It?
- Thread starter Asterix
- Start date
I imagine there were those who asked the same questions in Europe three-four centuries ago. And I imagine it will be asked 1-2 centuries from now after the loss of a couple of colony ships to the next star system. (Assuming the terrorists don't get a hold of a bio weapon that wipes us all out before then)
Travelling from one continental coast to another on a planet entirely suited to supporting life, is just a bit different from going out into what is essentially vast emptiness. Are you aware how many light years away we are from a planet system even remotely resembling ours? I would like to know what we are directly accomplishing from a program that seems to be vulnerable to a pound of material that is not far different from a convenience store coffee cup.
Is Manned Space Flight Worth It?
Yes dammit, yes, yes, yes, yes
What's sad is the wussy attitude
I'd fly on the flinking shuttle any day, I don't care how much foam flys off
Also sad we aren't further along on a shuttle replacement
and its sad they can't figure out the foam problem
and what's dumb is loss of tiles has been a concern since day 1 ... its unbelievable there wasn't some in flight inspection protocol all along.
Yes dammit, yes, yes, yes, yes
What's sad is the wussy attitude
I'd fly on the flinking shuttle any day, I don't care how much foam flys off
Also sad we aren't further along on a shuttle replacement
and its sad they can't figure out the foam problem
and what's dumb is loss of tiles has been a concern since day 1 ... its unbelievable there wasn't some in flight inspection protocol all along.
The securitization of space won't be possible without the space program. One day soon, if the nation keeps the faith and stays the course, the State will be able to zap things from orbit, making the West utterly invincible, and ushering in a new age of total peace and total security. This imperative is becoming more and more pressing as it becomes evident that China is busily establishing itself as an up-and-coming contender, and will become even more so when- not if- Russia pulls herself out of the gutter and back to her former heights and ambitions.
Mankind's reach must always exceed his grasp, else what's heaven for?
Shakespeare, Hamlet I think...
Shakespeare, Hamlet I think...
You say that because sea travel is so common place today that no one really thinks about the dangers anymore (except the small fishing trollers who have faced major storms at sea).Asterix said:
Four centuries ago, peope rarely sailed out of sight of land. I'm sure back then then Atlantic was seen as "essentially vast emptiness" as we do space. And we have the advantage of knowing how far the next 'land' is. Back then they had no way of knowing how far away land was. In fact wasn't it "common knowledge" back then that the word was flat?
As far as they "knew", didn't they risk falling off the world? Running out of food and water? As far as I can see, for space travel they still risk running out of food and water - we can add running out of oxygen and fuel and replace "falling off the world" with "falling into a black hole".
With this world being such a small part of the universe; it's difficult not to believe that the benefits for future generations will far outweigh the costs now.
Lastly; if we wait until we resolve all of "our problems" here on earth we'll run out of resources long before that happens and die off as a species. IMHO
Asterix said:
Yes, it is definitely worth it, the space program is one of the best investments government ever made. Technological breakthroughs too numerous to mention, many of them medical advances that we now take for granted, are directly related to research for the space program. And that's just the short-term benefit. The long term benefit is eventually being able to move to other planets to continue our race, or, to be more accurate, races we may evolve into. We already have the technological know-how to transform Mars into a habitable planet, it will indeed happen someday.
Ignoring the space program endangers our descendents. We need to learn how to destroy asteroids that threaten Earth. No, an asteroid is not likely to hit within our lifetime, but if you look at the big picture (the next billion years), a catastrophic impact is a certainty unless we do something about it. Also, our Sun will eventually die, and where will we go if we haven't learned to travel.
Another big objection to the space program is the cost. This is a common misperception. The program has ranged between 0.5 and 1.5 percent of the budget for the last 20 years. This is miniscule compared to defense, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc. So we are definitely not going broke because of the space program, and it arguably has provided some of the best returns of government programs. But I will agree with the program's critics on one thing they usually say - yes, of course, let's fix problems here on Earth. I am just saying that fixing problems on Earth and having a space program is not a contradiction, both can be done.
At times like these, I wish they had more guided tours of places like MD Robotics and NASA for the public masses.Asterix said:
I would imagine that this material is NOT really the same as styrofoam. The insuation must withstand a very high temperature, both on re-entry into the earth's atmosphere and also the high temperatures due to exposure to the sun's rays in outer space. With that said, it is an enormous task to design materials and structures for space flight.
Just look around you and you will see a lot of spin-offs from the space programs benefiting our modern society. One of these spin-offs is the renewed interest in fuel cells that may help us to keep the earth clean and finally free us from our energy dependence on fossil fuels and world politics.
shakenbake
Thanks for all the response, and of course I don't believe the foam is only as sophisticated as a coffee cup, only that something of the same physical mass can so befuddle NASA. There have been many scientific accomplishments in space, my question, as it now stands, is manned space flight worth the cost? Are we really achieving anything of late that could not just as easily be performed by robots? This debate has been going on at NASA for some time now. With the imminent and indefinate grounding of the shuttle fleet yet again, I'm sure it will only heat up.
Re: Space Travel...(is it worth it?)...
I believe it is. There seems to be something inherent in the Human psychology that propells us all forward with our questions. What's over that rise? What's over that Mountain?;...and so on. I think that Mr. George of the Jungle has provided the best analogy(post #'s : 2 and 10) in answering this question with his example of the sea going explorers of the Middle Ages. I'm sure that the same arguments, both pro and con, were as applicable then as they are now. In my view, the achievement(of exploration) is in the endeavour, not the result. An unsolicited opinion, only. Sincerely, Jon .
I believe it is. There seems to be something inherent in the Human psychology that propells us all forward with our questions. What's over that rise? What's over that Mountain?;...and so on. I think that Mr. George of the Jungle has provided the best analogy(post #'s : 2 and 10) in answering this question with his example of the sea going explorers of the Middle Ages. I'm sure that the same arguments, both pro and con, were as applicable then as they are now. In my view, the achievement(of exploration) is in the endeavour, not the result. An unsolicited opinion, only. Sincerely, Jon .
I'm sure you're correct, but you're only looking at cost in dollars and cents. There is also the cost in efficiency, time and human life. Wouldn't it make more sense, and wouldn't we get more done, if we had a number of different machines, working on different and specific tasks? Also, I think we need to admit that we haven't really gone anywhere yet. Let's compare the price of sending multiple probes and rovers to Mars, with any projected cost of sending a manned mission. If the cost of the manned mission wasn't astrononmical (no pun), I'd be surprised.irlandais9000 said:
Several million years of evolution has made man ideally suited for terrestial habitation. This will not be overcomed by the crude toys man builds. In order to visit the stars man will have to alter his biology to the point where he is unrecognizeable as human.
The question I have is - Isn't there an easier way of getting into space then strapped to a rocket.
Shuttle technology is about 30 years old now. You'd think that there would be new ideas on how to get into space. For example, something that takes off like a plane to fly near the edge of the atmosphere and then uses some kind of thrusters to get into space.
Come to think of it, modern air travel has not really evolved much in over 40 years.
Shuttle technology is about 30 years old now. You'd think that there would be new ideas on how to get into space. For example, something that takes off like a plane to fly near the edge of the atmosphere and then uses some kind of thrusters to get into space.
Come to think of it, modern air travel has not really evolved much in over 40 years.
Yes, we can't let the fucking Soviets beat us to the moon!!!
Whoops, wait a minute. It's not 1968? Why are we wasting money and lives on this again?
How 'bout we try to solve some problems here on Earth (you know in reality) before we go into space (you know science fiction).
Whoops, wait a minute. It's not 1968? Why are we wasting money and lives on this again?
How 'bout we try to solve some problems here on Earth (you know in reality) before we go into space (you know science fiction).
"Is manned space flight worth it?" is a relevant question, that deserves a real debate.
But the actual problem on hand is that the space shuttle program has been a very costly fiasco. Remember, it was designed to cheaply and frequently go into space and return, sort of like a bus every 2 weeks. The reality has been costly and infrequently.
Russia (the former soviet union) is able to cheaply and safely ferry people and goods to the space station. Maybe Bush should outsource the space program to them!
But the actual problem on hand is that the space shuttle program has been a very costly fiasco. Remember, it was designed to cheaply and frequently go into space and return, sort of like a bus every 2 weeks. The reality has been costly and infrequently.
Russia (the former soviet union) is able to cheaply and safely ferry people and goods to the space station. Maybe Bush should outsource the space program to them!
