Is it wrong. . . ?

You don't have to like homosexuals or understand them or screw them. You're entitled to your opinions, no matter how narrow, no matter how bigoted. In Canada, everyone has a right to be a bigot. What you do have to do is tolerate them, accept that they have all the same rights you do, live and let live.

The most important rights of all are the rights of people you dislike. It's easy enough to respect the rights of your friends and family. It's harder to respect the rights of your "enemies" or in this case people who have a lifestyle that disgusts you personally.
 
hornyharry said:
My boyfriends cat says that I can be a real pain in the ass...god I love that pussy!!!! :D
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ROTFLMAO!!!
 
I agree

Mystique Misty said:
When did you decide to be heterosexual ?
Did you teach yourself ?
If sexuality is learned who taught you ?
If your heterosexual then is that your lifestyle , your preference or were you born that way ?
Is it possible your homophobic because your not comfortable with your sexuality ?
Have you ever had a homosexual question the validity of your heterosexuality ? If not then who are you to question there's ?

My suggestion ..............get comfortable with your own sexually before you condemn others for theres . The things we fear in life the most are the things we are uneducated about why dont you try learning about it before you judge so harshly ? If you had done your research you would have realized gays and lesbians are born with certain chemicals in there brains that make them that way . Its not taught , learned or a lifestyle its the path that god has given them its up to them to act on it and many choose not too . Since you made a reference to cats heres a good 1 for you ..... if a cat is born and its mother dies so its raised by a dog does that mean its not longer a cat ? Hopefully you get my point if not then get educated so you dont look so ignorant . Is it wrong to have these feelings ? If you have to ask then you already know the answer to the question IMO >>>>

Misty
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Here Here Misty... truer words were never spoken....!!
 
Playing Devil's addvocate for a moment

While I agree that an indivdual should be able to do what they want behind closed doors, so long as no one is being hurt, one should look at the idea of homosexuality being a naturally born concept and its relationship to normalcy. Just because someone is born gay does not mean that it is natural. A child molestor is born with those tendencies, shall we accept that as normal? Now I am not talking about allowing adults to hurt our kids, I am talking about the physiological desire for that type of sexual gratification. People are born with Down Syndrome, we clearly can see that this is not what nature intended for a human being. Perhaps the question was raised not as an attack on homosexuals or in attempt to harm anyone but rather in protest to the idea that it should be accepted as normal. The media, in all forms, support groups, addvocate groups all seem to be shoving acceptence down society's throats. I guess my question, then, is, if one does feel that homosexuality is natural and normal, why then is there the need to push so aggressively for all others to accept? Why not take your proclaimation of tolerance and apply it to those like the poor bastard that started this thread?

Just trying to understand all sides of a sensitive issue.
 
Stonewilli said:
naturally...normalcy...natural...normal?
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Who cares what is natural or normal? You are grasping for straws to justify your bigoted attitude.

"Natural" is something that frequently ought to be overcome. First off, there is little evidence that homosexuality isn't natural; but more importantly--so what? What's natural? Freezing to death is natural, wearing clothes isn't. Poor vision is natural, wearing glasses isn't. Humans living in the tropics is natural, humans living in Canada isn't. Drugs and vaccines are far from natural, but pestilence and disease is very natural.

"Normal" is an even more suspicious concept. Normal is literally defined to be what most people are taught to think is right. In Germany in WW2 it was normal to beat up Jews. In Rwanda it was normal for awhile to run around with a machete and chop up your neighbour. For most of human history it was normal to abuse women and treat them as second class citizens. Clearly, very often, what is normal is wrong and what is "abnormal" is right.

You need to fix up your harmful understanding of "normal" and abandon your pretentious, paternalistic, and absurd beleif in the "natural". Both are poisoning your mind.
 
What did this poster expect?

The stupidest thing about DJ's post is that he posted it here on TERB. Any brief amount of research or lurking on his part should have told him that this community is gay-friendly (I believe TERB has many gay members) and that posters would promptly drive him into the turf for his views. That must have been what he wanted.

Having said that, all the talk about "fear" being the only reason why someone wouldn't accept homosexuality is, of course, logically flawed. So too is the premise that if heterosexuality needn't be learned, then homosexuality must also be biological. For goodness sake, you're born with the ability to breathe, but you can learn to hold your breath!

Besides "natural" vs "unnatural" isn't worth talking about. Earthquakes are "natural" but they are not the norm ("normal") nor desireable. The real issue is whether there is anything detrimental to society about people being gay. As PET says, inside of their own bedrooms, it's hard to imagine what harm homosexuality could possibly do.

Now, when people want to bring their sexuality out of their bedrooms and ask for public rights, that's when we all get to say something about how socially beneficial granting those rights would be!
 
a friend told me about an interesting study shown on tv about homophobics. based upon research by psychologists, the conclusion was that the most militant homophobics were in fact repressing homosexual feelings they had. They subconsciously hated it in themselves and internally fought it off; this had the result of them externalizing it through:

*acting overtly manly or macho (mysogenist/ homophobic)
*homophobic behaviour (verbal or physical abuse of gays)

i am not gay and yet i've never had any hate against them or desire to beat them up. i i don't socialize with them but i wouldn't shun them if in my presence. if you buy what these psychologists say, it makes you look at people like eminem quite differently.
 
dj1470 said:
Just a question and looking for opinions. Is it soooooooooooo terribly wrong for me to be homophobic. I can't stand cats either, am I catophobic? For whatever reason I cannot stand homosexuals. I simply do not want them anywhere near me (cats too!). I just do not understand the lifestyle I guess. I mean what is the huge attraction for screwing another guy? Biologically speaking homosexuality is really backwards - certain anatomical parts go it certain places, right? I just don't get it. I am firmly on the choice side of the issue. I do not think people are "born" gay. I believe it's a learned behaviour. I am probably leaving myself open to some sort of insane verbal attack saying I am racist or whatever but I just had to ask. Am I the only one who feels this way? Or am I in the silent majority?
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It depends, how about I replace the word 'homosexuals' with 'blacks'

"Is it soooooooooooo terribly wrong for me to be afraid of black people. I can't stand cats either, am I catophobic? For whatever reason I cannot stand blacks. I simply do not want them anywhere near me (cats too!). I just do not understand the lifestyle I guess. I mean what is the huge attraction of hip hop? Biologically speaking black people are really backwards - I just don't get it. I am firmly on the choice side of the issue. I do not think people are "born" black. I believe they hang out in the sun too long. I am probably leaving myself open to some sort of insane verbal attack saying I am racist or whatever but I just had to ask. Am I the only one who feels this way? Or am I in the silent majority?"

If you don't find anything wrong with this ^^^ then there is something wrong.

Personally, I don't think people should be judged by their skin colour, sexual orientation or sex type, but by the content of their character.
 
Well, let's be honest. eminem (can't bring myself to capitalize his name in any way) is just a jackass with the mental capacity you would find in a partially retarded tomato rolled in shit and vomit. So his attitudes are a product of that.

As for DJ's posting, I don't see a problem with having those views or opinions, and expressing them. Let's not suppress free speech, and let's not make fun of his intelligence either. We all profess to know these studies, facts, theories, etc. as if we were all suddenly PHD's on the subject, when I'm sure that most of us don't know our ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to the topic of homosexuality, heterosexuality, transgendered people, bisexuality, and so on. It's an interesting debate to compare the natural vs. the learned behaviour, and I'm sure that in different cases, one or the other has applied. I don't think you can paint all gay people with the same brush, just like you can't paint all heterosexuals in the same fashion. I'm not saying that to be politically correct, it's just my view based on personal observations, which I'm sure scientifically don't amount to shit.

As for not wanting to be near gay people, disliking them, whatever his feelings are, he's enititled to that as well. His reasons may not jive with your personal views on the subject, but we do live in a country where everyone has a choice. I'm not fond of certain people or groups, and in some cases, I would be called nasty names because my views are based on politics that are not of the norm, and typically differ with the established mode of thought. But you know what, that can be said for everyone. Every single person on this board, and every person you meet or walk by, has an opinion or belief that would make you cringe or lash out at that person in rage. Even those of you who posture as all-loving and tolerant of all things, harbour something that you know would make others view you negatively. You just supress it and don't discuss it with others for fear of the afore-mentioned reaction. We all have a view or opinion that will offend others.

There is nothing wrong with that. You can't deny that truth. It's part of being human, and is one of those things that insures that people are truly different from each other. The trick is not being so sure of yourself and your supposed intelligence that you discount the feelings of those who you offend. Their opinion matters too, no matter how much you disagree. I do believe we all have something to offer, and that even negative opnions (particulartly negative ones) usually hold some nugget of truth that most people don't want to hear.

I don't hate DJ because of his views. I don't hate DJ at all, I've never met him and have nothing to form an opinion with. For all I know, he may be just stirring the pot because he's a shit disturber, and doesn't espouse those beliefs at all! Who knows. But I am glad that this debate was sparked, as it is interesting to see people's reactions.

Carry on!
 
The genetic issue and homosexuality

Unlike Budplug, I think the issue of whether homosexuality or homosexuality tendencies) is "natural" i.e., genetic is quite important.
Research answers on the issue remain elusive although recent work on phernomes seems to demonstrate that homosexuality(male, at least) is wired into our senses. Phernomes(scents that trigger physical attraction) have different effects in male homosexuals and male heterosexuals. Female homosexual testing on phernomes was inconclusive - that is, they were unable to tell if a female was straight or not just by exposing her to various phernomes. This implies(for males, at least) a certain mechanism in our senses which is different. It could be inherited (genetic) or learned(one supposes) like a
desire for certain foods, but it seems to me that is unlikely. Although, it has been shown that certain aspects of language become hard-wired in children by the age of 5 or 6. This is why accents are so difficult to lose and why(for example) English speakers have such difficulty with certain foreign sounds.

While one could speculate that if homosexuality was genetic it would habe been bred out of the human genome, but it has been suggested that a genetic link to homosexuality could be paired with another trait(in females): improved fertility in females has been cited as a possible pairing that keeps the "gene" vibrant.

Now, if it is shown that homosexuality is genetic, what are the implications? Dramatic , I think. How can a Church, for exmple, argue that this is not God's way or against the Bible or some other such stricture?
And, more importantly, will there be research into genetic testing in the
prenatal? These will surely test our sense of humanity.

I believe it is necessary to preserve our diversity of sexual preference just as it is important to preserve our diversity of culture. Homosexual contribution to Western culture is enormous and continues to enrich and broaden our human experiences.

chill
 
Oh wow, and I thought I had seen it all on TERB.

Nah, I don't think it is wrong. Feeling threatened, feeling afraid, feeling disdain, feeling revulsion, these are all natural human tendencies. As much as we are rational beings, we can't help feeling the way we do.

But while it is not wrong, it is certainly narrowminded, ignorant, and beneath you. I have gay friends, gay relatives, and at the end of the day, their sexual preference doesn't really affect me, any more than my preference for round assed blondes who like it from behind affects them. I love them and respect them for who they are, and the fact that they like to suck dick rather than eat pussy (or vice versa) is a non-issue.

To be honest, it really doesn't matter to any of us whether you are homophobic or not. And I doubt if anything anyone has written here is something you haven't heard before. So go ahead, be homophobic, who gives a shit? The only person it really matters to is you.
 
rubme said:
Isuue " Gay Marriage" I think it's wrong to call it Marriage... Every thing that goes along with marriage is fine just not the name " Marriage"
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Why?

Marriages are carried out by many different authorities, both religous and secular. As a result, the word "marriage" carries a number of different connotations. For myself, I'm not religous, so the word denotes a legally recognised pair-bond. No problem with the pair-bond being between two guys, two girls, or whatever.

Just because some people have a concept of marriage that, probably for religious reasons, doesn't include gay people, doesn't mean that they have the exclusive right to the word. It's been too thoroughly co-opted by common society for that.

If you don't believe in gay marriage, fine, don't let gays get married in your church. That's your business and your right. But don't forget that there's a civil concept of marriage also, one that's enjoyed by athiest scum like me, and we don't mind sharing our heathen concept of marriage with the queers.
 
Originally posted by Lynn
Homophobia is "fear". Not approving of homosexuality is "homophobia".
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Based on your argument, if one does not approve of homosexual activity it is because they fear it. What do you base your assumption on?
Why can you accept the fact that some people feel that 2 men, or 2 women having sex is wrong? You don't have to agree with that thought, but can you not appreciate that some people believe it? Do I hate gays? No. Do I hunt them and beat them? No. Do I believe that what they do is right? No.
You make assertions that our beliefs are preprogrammed by society, so you do not believe that those of us who disagree with you are capable of making up our own minds. Interesting. Based on that rationale one could assert that you have been brainwashed by the homosexual community and you are incapable of making up your own mind. Of course I don't believe that, so, why do you feel that I cannot make up my own mind?

It's all a play on words - but if it makes y'a happy I guess so Coach.
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It is more than a play on words, and it doesn't make me happy.It doesn't make me sad. You are entitled to your own opinions, I respect your right to them whether I agree with them or not. I don't think you have been brainwashed by gay zealots, or by anyone else. You have your reasons for your beliefs and are entitled to them.

I find it intriguing that a topic such as this draws out many zealots who feel the need to denounce others' opinions, call them names and make assertions based on absolutely no facts at all.
 
Coach said:
Originally posted by Lynn

Based on your argument, if one does not approve of homosexual activity it is because they fear it. What do you base your assumption on?
Why can you accept the fact that some people feel that 2 men, or 2 women having sex is wrong? You don't have to agree with that thought, but can you not appreciate that some people believe it? Do I hate gays? No. Do I hunt them and beat them? No. Do I believe that what they do is right? No.
You make assertions that our beliefs are preprogrammed by society, so you do not believe that those of us who disagree with you are capable of making up our own minds. Interesting. Based on that rationale one could assert that you have been brainwashed by the homosexual community and you are incapable of making up your own mind. Of course I don't believe that, so, why do you feel that I cannot make up my own mind?
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Well put Coach! Everyone has a right to their opinions, views, beliefs, etc. Most people who claim to be liberal are really just interested in being our Thought Police. If it's not "accepting" or "tolerant", by their standards, then you get lumped in with some group of undesirables like the KKK or who knows what else! I've noticed over the years that most "liberals" have this arrogant attitude that they are superior to others because their beliefs and values make them so. I found this in post-secondary life among many of my friends who took courses in "Critical Thinking" and "Logical Thinking". Pretty sad to see that there are people who are given license to teach you how to think according to their standards.

I don't consider myself to be liberal or conservative, I really don't care what others think, and form my own opinions which are typically outside of the accepted schools of thought. I'm not extreme or deranged, just prefer to look at all sources. Sure I have biases like anyone else, but I refuse to allow just one position on any issue to influence me completely.

I don't have a problem with what gays do, and don't look it as being right or wrong. But I won't form an opinion of you for believing that it IS wrong Coach. I don't know you and would rather base my opinions on people once I meet them and know them a little better. Maybe you're an asshole, maybe you're not. I really don't know. But you have a right to your opinion, even if I don't agree with it.
 
dj1470 said:
I am probably leaving myself open to some sort of insane verbal attack saying I am racist or whatever but I just had to ask. Am I the only one who feels this way? Or am I in the silent majority?
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I have great respect for people who express an opinion even if I don't agree.
Perhaps if you got to know somebody then found out they were gay you would feel differently.
If you knew them first you would find that they are just like you and I except for their sexual preference. You might then learn to not necessarily understand it but accept it and the person for how they act not what sex they prefer.
 
For the most part I am with homonger in opinion.

As long as dj isn't going out of his way to convince others that his opinion is the right (and only) one or actively participating in efforts to rob homosexuals of their human rights I see no problem with him having his opinion regarding homosexuality and expressing it. I would be much more afraid of the ignorance that silence breeds.

I have friends who are gay but that doesn't mean I automatically buy into every single aspect and belief about the lifestyle purported by the gay community (and it's supporters) without question. Not even the gay community agrees 100% about it's own definition and so on. I am a free thinking human being who needs to discover truth for myself as oppose to just accepting whatever is handed to me or shoved down my throat. I look at all sides of the issue and then attempt to formulate an opnion while knowing that all the facts are not yet in.

Finally I'd like to say that one does not overcome fear, intolerance, prejudice, hate, "social programming" in others by adhering to those behaviours themselves.
 
A few facts and opinions.

There is overwhelming evidence across all human societies and many animal species that a certain portion of the population is homosexual. The exact proportion is open for debate. Is it 5%, 10%, 15% or more? It depends in part on how you define homosexuality. There is also overwhelming evidence of a bunch of other behaviours that are genetically determined.

There is also an overwhelming tendencies among human societies to reject or condemn homosexuality, mostly based on religious taboos.

So, my understanding of the issue is that homosexual tendencies are most likely biologically based, and intolerance of homosexual behaviours is strongly influenced by social pressures.

As to being bothered by the presence or proximity of homosexuals, just get over it. Most gay men would probably have no interest in having sex with you anyway. As for the marriage issue, gay marriage does not impact whatsoever on heterosexual marriage. No one is being coerced into homosexual marriages. No one is forcing heterosexual couples to divorce. The churches can still do what they have been doing all along, that is restrict access at their sanction of what is otherwise a civil contract to members of their communities, and discriminate against outsiders. Think about it. Is the catholic church allowing a church marriage between a catholic and a muslim? Or a catholic and a baptist?

The basic issue is that in a pluralistic society, people should be able to live according to who they are, and should not be discriminated against. That applies to men and women, people of various skin tones, hair length, religious believes, sexual orientation, physical and mental disabilities, you get the picture.

The basic tenant of a tolerant society is to respect other members of society. You do your stuff and let the other folks do their stuff. As long as no one gets hurt and no laws are broken. As for the laws, once it becomes obvious that they don't apply to an evolving reality, then times have come to update them.

Just my $0.02.
 
Gay Marriage: Why do you care what other people do, who they marry, and whatnot? Why do you care AT ALL? How can it possibly have any effect on you whatsoever?

If you dare give us any kind of line about "good for society" then you must think where you are posting: There are lots of people out there who think that prostitutes, MPA's, and strippers are not "good for society", people who think they have some high moral right to force their own moral beliefs on other people.

I don't believe I have any right to force my moral beliefs on anybody else, and so I don't believe I have any right, or you have any right, to tell someone else whether they can marry a man or a woman.

So long as nobody is getting hurt it's none of your business, what two consenting adults do in bed or in church is really up to them, not you.
 
homonger said:
Oh wow, and I thought I had seen it all on TERB.

Nah, I don't think it is wrong. Feeling threatened, feeling afraid, feeling disdain, feeling revulsion, these are all natural human tendencies. As much as we are rational beings, we can't help feeling the way we do.

But while it is not wrong, it is certainly narrowminded, ignorant, and beneath you. I have gay friends, gay relatives, and at the end of the day, their sexual preference doesn't really affect me, any more than my preference for round assed blondes who like it from behind affects them. I love them and respect them for who they are, and the fact that they like to suck dick rather than eat pussy (or vice versa) is a non-issue.

To be honest, it really doesn't matter to any of us whether you are homophobic or not. And I doubt if anything anyone has written here is something you haven't heard before. So go ahead, be homophobic, who gives a shit? The only person it really matters to is you.
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well said
 
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