Is God Punishing the GOP & Florida???
- Thread starter WoodPeckr
- Start date
..Socialism is a greater role in the economy for the Govt as oppossed to letting the Business class do whatever they want. I would argue the US is already Socialist, as their economy is dependant upon Military spending, which just goes to the same cluster of Companies.
The emergence of socialist ideas in Britain and France, and later in Germany and Italy, was a consequence of the industrial revolution. In these countries, the development of manufacturing industry, and related industries such as coal-mining and the railways, produced an industrial working class, referred to by socialists as the proletariat: workers who had nothing to sell but their labour. The misery of the industrial workers in the unregulated economies of the early 19th century provoked anger among many observers, and the formulation of socialist principles was an attempt to devise a way of producing wealth without such crude exploitation. Socialism gained popularity among the working class itself, and, from the mid-19th century onwards, workers formed the backbone of the socialist movement.
Of course, many upper- and middle-class people who were not socialists were also outraged by the plight of the working class. Their response was liberalism: the belief that an enlightened middle class could reform the operations of capitalism so as to produce social justice without infringing the rights of property owners. English thinkers such as John Stuart Mill were at the forefront of this movement. Although Mill considered himself a socialist, he also believed in private ownership of the means of production -- he reserved his socialism for matters of distribution, which he considered a separate subject. In France in 1830 and in England in 1832, liberal political ideas triumphed, and this did much to take the wind out of the sails of the early socialist movement.
In Germany, liberalism suffered a terrible defeat in the failed revolution of 1848, and this gave rise to a new strain of socialist thought, articulated by Karl Rodbertus-Jagetzow and, to much wider recognition, by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels in the Manifesto of the Communist Party (1848). Marx and Engels developed a body of ideas which they called scientific socialism, and which is more commonly called Marxism. Marxism contained both a theory of history (historical materialism) and a theory of society.
Unlike the utopian socialists, Marx confronted the question of power, and formulated theories regarding the practical way of achieving and running a socialist system. He believed that capitalism could only be overthrown by means of a revolution, to be followed by the establishment of a dictatorship of the proletariat (as opposed to the "dictatorship of the bourgeoisie", which was capitalism); Marx believed that the proletariat was the only class with both the means and the determination to carry the revolution forward; unlike the utopian socialists, who often idealised agrarian life and deplored the growth of modern industry, Marx saw the growth of capitalism and an urban proletariat as a necessary stage towards socialism.
Karl Marx and Friedrich EngelsIn Marx's theory, "socialism" referred to the stage of history and class structure immediately following the revolution, in which power would pass to the proletariat. According to Marx, once private property had been abolished, the state would then "wither away," and humanity would move on to a higher stage of society, "communism." This distinction continues to be used by Marxists, and is the cause of much confusion. No Marxist, for example, ever claimed that the Soviet Union was a communist society, even though it was ruled by a Communist Party for 70 years. The name of the party is not meant to reflect the name of the social system.
Having developed a body of ideas, socialists naturally sought to put them into practice. Socialist political groups were formed as early as the 1830s, but in the beginning they failed to make real headway among the workers, who were more interested in forming trade unions and making immediate economic gains within the capitalist system. The socialist groups also tended to be quarrelsome and suffer frequent splits. It would not be until a few decades later that socialism began to draw mass support, and some alliances between trade unionism and socialism began to form.
In 1864, the First International, (or International Working Men's Association) was founded in London, at a conference addressed by Marx. Most of the groups represented at this meeting had little real existence, but from this time on they grew rapidly, especially in France and Germany. In the wake of the Franco-Prussian War of 1871, the working class of Paris (or at least a part of it) established the Paris Commune, which for a few weeks provided a glimpse of a socialist society, before being brutally suppressed when the French government regained control. The First International collapsed shortly thereafter.
The Second International (the "Socialist International") was established in Paris in 1893, by which time socialist parties were active in most European countries and were beginning to achieve some electoral successes in countries where elections were held and the working class was able to vote. This International, however, was divided between the followers of Marx and the anarchists, led by the Russian Mikhail Bakunin. The anarchists believed that capitalism and the state were inseparable, and that one could not be abolished without the other. Consequently, they opposed Marxism and most other socialist groups, and a split between the anarchists and the Socialist International soon occurred.
Unlike the utopian socialists, Marx confronted the question of power, and formulated theories regarding the practical way of achieving and running a socialist system. He believed that capitalism could only be overthrown by means of a revolution, to be followed by the establishment of a dictatorship of the proletariat (as opposed to the "dictatorship of the bourgeoisie", which was capitalism); Marx believed that the proletariat was the only class with both the means and the determination to carry the revolution forward; unlike the utopian socialists, who often idealised agrarian life and deplored the growth of modern industry, Marx saw the growth of capitalism and an urban proletariat as a necessary stage towards socialism.
Karl Marx and Friedrich EngelsIn Marx's theory, "socialism" referred to the stage of history and class structure immediately following the revolution, in which power would pass to the proletariat. According to Marx, once private property had been abolished, the state would then "wither away," and humanity would move on to a higher stage of society, "communism." This distinction continues to be used by Marxists, and is the cause of much confusion. No Marxist, for example, ever claimed that the Soviet Union was a communist society, even though it was ruled by a Communist Party for 70 years. The name of the party is not meant to reflect the name of the social system.
Having developed a body of ideas, socialists naturally sought to put them into practice. Socialist political groups were formed as early as the 1830s, but in the beginning they failed to make real headway among the workers, who were more interested in forming trade unions and making immediate economic gains within the capitalist system. The socialist groups also tended to be quarrelsome and suffer frequent splits. It would not be until a few decades later that socialism began to draw mass support, and some alliances between trade unionism and socialism began to form.
In 1864, the First International, (or International Working Men's Association) was founded in London, at a conference addressed by Marx. Most of the groups represented at this meeting had little real existence, but from this time on they grew rapidly, especially in France and Germany. In the wake of the Franco-Prussian War of 1871, the working class of Paris (or at least a part of it) established the Paris Commune, which for a few weeks provided a glimpse of a socialist society, before being brutally suppressed when the French government regained control. The First International collapsed shortly thereafter.
The Second International (the "Socialist International") was established in Paris in 1893, by which time socialist parties were active in most European countries and were beginning to achieve some electoral successes in countries where elections were held and the working class was able to vote. This International, however, was divided between the followers of Marx and the anarchists, led by the Russian Mikhail Bakunin. The anarchists believed that capitalism and the state were inseparable, and that one could not be abolished without the other. Consequently, they opposed Marxism and most other socialist groups, and a split between the anarchists and the Socialist International soon occurred.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
More of this can be found on the link above.
Don..sorry looks like I was right on Marx and Engels.
I feel like I am in the twilight zone reading some of the posts here.
The USA a socialist country????
I hate to say it, but the liberals have won the education battle. Taking history out of class rooms was the biggest mistake yet. If you don't understand your past...how can you understand the present or the future??
More of this can be found on the link above.
Don..sorry looks like I was right on Marx and Engels.
I feel like I am in the twilight zone reading some of the posts here.
The USA a socialist country????
I hate to say it, but the liberals have won the education battle. Taking history out of class rooms was the biggest mistake yet. If you don't understand your past...how can you understand the present or the future??
...declining maybe, but still the driving factor in ther US economy. Socialism, Fascism, both mean the same thing, a greater role for Govt in the economy, a role I think at the upper levels they already play. Witness the bailing out of GM years ago. The real term I would use is Statist. The US has a much more Statist economy then most people realize.
If history has proven anything is, that economies run by goverments are doomed to fail.
Look at recent history and look what it is, that actually brought down Russia.
Look at the whole European economy and finally wait for the axe to drop on China.
Look at recent history and look what it is, that actually brought down Russia.
Look at the whole European economy and finally wait for the axe to drop on China.
..when I think of the " State", I think of the saying "the biggest trick the Devil did is in makeing people belive he did not exist". every one blames Corporations or the Jews or the UN exct. The United States "State" is never mentioned, its always someone else.
..call it the Pentagon system, whatever you want, no one ever talks about the "State". It only has millions of employees, yet it is always someone else to blame. What happened in Iraq was not because the "State" wanted it to happen , it was becuase somehow the Govt was misled by Oil, Neo Cons exct.
ummmmmmmmassoholic said:..I am speaking State in the same way as one would talk about the State running the Gulag system in Russia. The Secret Police exct, or dont you think those things happen in the States ? nah of course not, it would be on CNN right.
forgive me but what the hell does this have to do with the fact thousands of people, across the Caribien, have died from the hurricanes?
I have watched ths thread denegrate itno are have and have not arguement. But the reality is people lost their lives, livelyhood and everything they owned. Just can not see how this is political.
Hammer+ Sichel---Pfui
Mr.Langeweile.
Britain,had, no connection to "Socialism"until Herr Marx+Herr Engels decided to make their Home in London,after their Expulsion from Prussia.
One Communist--The other Socialist.
Both got their Ideas from "Raiffeisen".A man who organized the indentured Agrar Workers,In the Region around Siegen.He was around 80 years before any writings in the Rheinische.
One must never forget,the Swiss,or the French Revolution in the Equation of Communism,or it's halfbrother Socialism.
Long live free Enterprise.
Life is too short to hurry.
Mr.Langeweile.
Britain,had, no connection to "Socialism"until Herr Marx+Herr Engels decided to make their Home in London,after their Expulsion from Prussia.
One Communist--The other Socialist.
Both got their Ideas from "Raiffeisen".A man who organized the indentured Agrar Workers,In the Region around Siegen.He was around 80 years before any writings in the Rheinische.
One must never forget,the Swiss,or the French Revolution in the Equation of Communism,or it's halfbrother Socialism.
Long live free Enterprise.
Life is too short to hurry.
