Interesting read re. Global warming

blackrock13

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You could, for example, read "The Deniers" by Lawrence Solomon (of Energy Probe). If an actual whole book is too much, at least read the wiki article of the same title.

In my original comment, of course the "all" is an exaggeration. But not enough to take away from the point I was making.
So we're gone from all to 'not enough'. I wonder how many that is.

I've had the opportunity to work along side a number of these researchers and I've not heard one of them say they were in it for the money or any variation of it, even after many wobbly pops or a fit of anger or frustration. Even if it was true to extent that you hint at, once published they still have to run the gambit of peer review. If even a hint of bias or fraud is offered, it can take months if not years to recover. Yes, many of them go from project to project as 'hired guns', but like many freelancers they are basically only as good as their last product. Those of us on TERB who are self employed freelancers know that reality.

As far Solomon, I'll do one better as he, before the release of this book, was a guest speaker at a symposium I attended and he is a great talker, but uses many of the classic techniques of the best talking heads at FOX News.

I'll let George Marshall of GMI say it much better than I, paraphrased;

Claiming that the goal of your book is not to settle the science, but merely to show that the debate is active. By this sleight of hand, you can claim that scientific process depends on constant challenge without allowing any debate about the studies you cite. This allows you to draw superficial similarities between positions that contradict each other.

You then can adopt a populist questing tone, make it clear that you have no expertise in any of these areas and are just another perplexed joe public seeking the truth. “Ok”, you admit coyly, “I can’t cook to save my life, but I’m a free thinker. After all, only conformists say that banana doesn’t go with cheese.”

I must admit that Lawrence Solomon is awfully good at this stuff. Like all the best climate skeptics he is a great communicator. His prose is tight and readable. His own credentials are impressive in that Solomon is the acting head of the well-regarded Energy Probe International.

He claimed that leading scientists, taking major personal risks, are prepared to ‘deny’ the stated consensus on climate change. Claims world-renowned scientists who stood up against global warming hysteria, political persecution and fraud. It slowly dawns on some in the audience that few of these ‘world renowned scientists’, many well known to them, disagree in any way that climate change is happening, is serious, and is primarily caused by human emissions. They are well funded career scientists who are not standing up for anything much other than a nice round of applause from the other hysterics.

I'll list a few for you, Richard Tol, Chris Landsea, Ed Wegman.

Dr. Richard Tol, a critic of the Stern Report, who, admittingly is in every other way “a central figure in the global warming establishment”. Then we hear from Dr Christopher Landsea who argued that hurricanes are not increasing due to climate change. He is also a contributing author to the second UN IPCC report and agrees fully with its main conclusions. Dr Edward Wegman, who challenges the statistical basis of the famous ‘hockey stick’ climate graph, “does not dispute that man made global warming was occurring’.

These scientist are actually leading scientists who accept the core consensus but have some important and relevant reservations about the causes and impacts.

Solomon has admitted as much: “I noticed something striking about my growing cast of deniers. None of them were deniers”.
Solomon allows himself to make this self-deprecating admission because, whilst he wishes to lionize the careers of his ‘world renowned experts’, he is also prepared to be condescending about their judgment.

He argues that they are suffering from a delusion that the whole theory stands firm despite the evidence of that own specialist work. “Affirmers in general. Deniers in particular” crows Solomon. “Like other smart people, scientists accept the conventional wisdom in areas they know little about…We know from our daily lives that the consensus can be spectacularly wrong.” According to Solomon they are in denial about their denial and he is going to drag them out of the closet.

Solomon’s cavalier strategy of ‘outing’ climate deniers has already become spectacularly unstuck. In January 2007 he dedicated his regular Denier column in the Canadian National Post, which forms the basis for this book, to Dr Nigel Weiss. Weiss, he said “believes that the science is anything but settled except for one virtual certainty: the world is about to enter a cooling period”.

Dr Weiss responded immediately and did not mince his words.“The article by Lawrence Solomon, which portrays me as a denier of global warming, is a slanderous fabrication. I have always maintained that the current episode of warming that we are experiencing is caused by anthropogenic greenhouse gases, and that global temperatures will rise much further unless steps are taken to halt the burning of fossil fuel”. Unusually the rebuttle was accompanied by an official press release from the University of Cambridge.


Whilst the National Post issued a groveling apology, Solomon was not going to let his search for truth be derailed by accusations of slanderous fabrication. Astonishingly, the article still appears on his website without any qualification link. It has now spread all over the internet and has been repeated in the form of a faked interview in another book “Scared to Death” by skeptics and media pundits Christopher Booker and Richard North.
So let’s do some real ‘outing’. Solomon is not really an independent searcher after truth- he is a frontline communicator for a large and influential denial industry that aims to prevent political action and undermine public concern about climate change.

Start with the scientists in Denial. With each chapter, the legitimate questioning scientists I have just mentioned give way to the professional skeptics. There is Professor Richard Lindzen, who, according to the investigative journalist Ross Gelbspan, consults to oil and coal interests for $2,500 a day and whose trip to testify before a Senate committee on climate change was paid for by Western Fuels.

Lindzen, along with three of the other ‘world-renowned scientists’ in Denial, found time in their busy research schedule to appear in ‘The Great Global Warming Swindle’, a notorious British documentary that was denounced by the UK government’s chief scientific adviser, the Royal Society. One of the contributers threatened to sue the director for gross misrepresentation.

Six of the stars of Denial were among the the ‘A’ list of professional contrarians, lobbyists and conspiracy theorists who spoke at the New York International Conference on Climate Change in March this year. The sponsor was the Heartland Institute, a libertarian think tank which has received $781,000 in grants fron Exxon Mobil since 2000 for its campaign against the Kyoto Protocol.


Even if we assume that he started with pure intentions, Solomon has now fallen in with some very unsavoury people. In April this year his column for the National Post defends Fred Singer who, as usual, he calls ‘one of the world’s renowned scientists’. Singer has not had a peer reviewed paper published in 20 years and is linked to a string of oil and coal industry lobby groups. He has long operated as a hired gun for the tobacco industry giving ‘expert’ testimony that side stream smoke is not dangerous.

In June 2008 Solomon’s column praises a ludicrous and widely condemned paper on the beneficial effects of heightened carbon dioxide by the Oregan Insititute of Science and Medecine. The OISM, which has no affiliations to any recognised scientific body, is a far right fringe body that markets a home-schooling kit for “parents concerned about socialism in the public schools”.


And in April Solomon launched his book at an event organised by some of the most notorious anti-environmental campaigners in Washington. In his speech he congratulates his hosts; Myron Ebell, the Cooler Heads Coalition and the Competititve Enterprise Insitute (CEI) for “for the integrity and tenacity that he and they have shown during this entire global warming debate”.

For an environmental campaigner he has fallen into the worst crowd imaginable. It would be like Barack Obama speaking at a Ku Klux Klan meeting and praising them for their contribution to racial tolerance. Myron Ebell led aggressive lobby campaigns though a think tank called Frontiers of Freedom to gut the US Endangered Species Act. Ebell and the CEI ran a public campaign against higher fuel efficiency standards in cars arguing, among other things, that it would lead to more accidents. The Cooler Heads Coalition, formed by CEI, opposes any political action on climate change and brings together a host of libertarian and far right interest groups such as Americans for the Preservation of Liberty, the Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise and Defenders of Property Rights.

Solomon gives them respect and credibility. They give him status in return, calling him ‘one of Canada’s leading environmentalists’ and an ‘internationally renowned environmentalist’. Maybe this expains how an environmental campaigner can become best buddies with the professional lobbyists who despise his own movement. Environmental campaigners are poorly paid and often vilified with few plaudits or rewards. On the other hand skeptics live in a self-congratulating world in which there are no also-rans. Everyone is a winner. Everyone is famous or world renowned. Anyone who is assertive and skilled with polemic can be a star.

If you are middle aged activist and wondering what you have really achieved in your life it must be very seductive. And dangerous.



 

Ridgeman08

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Climatologists can't even accurately predict what the weather will be on the weekend FFS... what makes us think they can predict WTF will happen 50 years from now! :rolleyes: :frusty:
 

blackrock13

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Climatologists can't even accurately predict what the weather will be on the weekend FFS... what makes us think they can predict WTF will happen 50 years from now! :rolleyes: :frusty:
Proof you didn't read post #48 and proof I wasn't wrong. Climatologist don't predict weather, let alone next weekend. Meteorologists do that. Look it up and learn something useful.
 

Ridgeman08

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Proof you didn't read post #48 and proof I wasn't wrong. Climatologist don't predict weather, let alone next weekend. Meteorologists do that. Look it up and learn something useful.
OK... lemme use terminology you would be familiar with then... (as used by one of my favourite politicians in the whole world... Mr. Al Gore)

"Experts" can't even accurately predict what the weather will be on the weekend FFS... what makes us think they can predict WTF will happen 50 years from now!
 

Phil C. McNasty

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OK... lemme use terminology you would be familiar with then... (as used by one of my favourite politicians in the whole world... Mr. Al Gore)

"Experts" can't even accurately predict what the weather will be on the weekend FFS... what makes us think they can predict WTF will happen 50 years from now!
I'll help you out. They cant.

They can only make predictions, which may or may not come true. So far all the gloom & doom has not been true. Last winter was extremely mild in Toronto. Our summer was above average warm.

If this winter is very mild again, and next summer is hotter then usual, I will start taking GW more seriously
 

blackrock13

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OK... lemme use terminology you would be familiar with then... (as used by one of my favourite politicians in the whole world... Mr. Al Gore)

"Experts" can't even accurately predict what the weather will be on the weekend FFS... what makes us think they can predict WTF will happen 50 years from now!
If AG is one of your favorite politicians, you need help :Eek:.

As for your experts, the different sciences do different things using different parameters. Aside from that your comparison is sort of close. One of the biggest differences is that climatologist uses historical evidence a lot to look forward, the meteorology work in very much shorter timelines. As research improves The climatology are able to work with a greater collection of historical and empirical evidence. As for the weatherman, if the weekend is tomorrow they don't do that badly, but if it's 5 days away, then it's another story. If you want to forecast for the next planting season, good luck

I guess you didn't think actually looking up the definitions of the two sciences, did you?
 

whitewaterguy

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Aug 30, 2005
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Clearly, the global warming scam has peaked and been on a downhill slide for some time now in terms of capacity to scare the general citizenry. Do-gooders have moved on to other,trendier causes as topics of discussion, righteousness and chest pumping at their cocktail parties. Global Warming....gasp who woulda thought....no longer trending
 

blackrock13

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Jun 6, 2009
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Clearly, the global warming scam has peaked and been on a downhill slide for some time now in terms of capacity to scare the general citizenry. Do-gooders have moved on to other,trendier causes as topics of discussion, righteousness and chest pumping at their cocktail parties. Global Warming....gasp who woulda thought....no longer trending


Rriight!! Clearly time to get back in your crate.
 

staggerspool

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Let me guess - they're thinking of raising premiums, right?
They (the insurance companies) are trying to save their industry, because they recognize that the expertise of those who are warning us about climate change is based on the same type of expertise that they use to do their business. Pros know their stuff, and they know that they have to pay attention to other experts.

Climate change deniers are all connected to industry and lifestyle that rely on us continuing to burn oil, so they want to push back societal understanding of the issue until they can bolt with whatever they can accumulate by their dirty work.

Scientists warning about climate change are going to get paid whether they are right or not, they don't have a financial stake in anything other than working toward discovering the truth of the situation. Of course there are the odd bad apples, but I'm not distracted by that, I look at the bulk of the evidence.

The insurance business is at the front of a wave, lots of others will follow as the balance shifts toward conserving their business over trying to grow it by exploiting the easy burn.
 

Phil C. McNasty

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Scientists warning about climate change are going to get paid whether they are right or not, they don't have a financial stake in anything
Actually, many of them do.

Michael Mann and Phil Jones work almost exclusively on government grants
 

Phil C. McNasty

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It would of interset to know what your definition of 'many' is. An educated guess is okay
Lets start with NASA global warming scientists. While they are not on grants, they are paid by the government for their work: http://climate.nasa.gov/

Then you have the EPA, who are involved with GW and are also paid by the govt: http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/

Then you have all the scientists who work for IPCC: http://www.ipcc.ch/

Then you have all the scientists who work for the National Climatic Data Center: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Climatic_Data_Center

Then you have all the scientists who work for Climatic Research Unit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit

And then you also have many university scientists/professors who work on grants like Michael Mann.

Some of these scientists work for the government and get paid a salary, and some make a living receiving grants from charity, UN or other governmental agencies
 

groggy

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Actually, many of them do.

Michael Mann and Phil Jones work almost exclusively on government grants
And those grants are awarded to do research, not to provide predetermined results.
They continue to get those grants based on their ability to provide fully documented, provable, peer assessed results.

Or are you trying to suggest that the government has some kind of secret conspiracy to fund scientists who will prove the government and politicians wrong on all environmental and economic plans to contain climate change?
 

groggy

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Lets start with NASA global warming scientists. While they are not on grants, they are paid by the government for their work: http://climate.nasa.gov/

Then you have the EPA, who are involved with GW and are also paid by the govt: http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/

Then you have all the scientists who work for IPCC: http://www.ipcc.ch/

Then you have all the scientists who work for the National Climatic Data Center: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Climatic_Data_Center

Then you have all the scientists who work for Climatic Research Unit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit

And then you also have many university scientists/professors who work on grants like Michael Mann.

Some of these scientists work for the government and get paid a salary, and some make a living receiving grants from charity, UN or other governmental agencies

Oh, so you think its a government funded conspiracy to come up with research that doesn't support the 'American way of life' environmentally?
That its only the US government funded scientists whose work is in the IPCC reports?
 

Phil C. McNasty

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Here's another example.

UM scientist receives $2M grant to study climate change effects on tropical birds

http://billingsgazette.com/news/sta...df1-56da-87e3-d3892eb1b1ef.html#ixzz29fAgszly

A University of Montana scientist was recently awarded a National Science Foundation grant and believes his research into the effects of elevation and climate change on tropical birds will inform science’s understanding of how those species survive in a warming world.

Tom Martin leads the study, which is called “Dimensions: Collaborative Research — Historical and Contemporary Influences on Elevational Distributions and Biodiversity Tested in Tropic Asia.” It was recently backed by a $2 million National Science Foundation grant, and has partners from the Smithsonian Institution, the University of Kansas and Louisiana State University.

A large sum of the grant, $1.3 million, will come to UM for the study, and Martin will lead a group of student researchers to the tropical island Borneo to study birds in two superfamilies — the Sylvoidea and Muscicapidae families. The team of researchers will depart in early February and return in June
 

Phil C. McNasty

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Oh, so you think its a government funded conspiracy to come up with research that doesn't support the 'American way of life' environmentally?
That its only the US government funded scientists whose work is in the IPCC reports?
Where did I mention the word 'conspiracy', groggy??

Cause I dont see it anywhere :confused:
 
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