If prostitution were legalized, what would change?
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Not much has changed since it became legal.
There is still a stigma for escorts and their clients, therefore it is still secretive and underground. They both still avoid the police.
Escorts still need to be on guard for bad dates, possibly hiring protection.
Since it's a secretive activity, most transactions are in cash and are less likely to have full taxes paid even though they would benefit from writing off business expenses.
There is still a stigma for escorts and their clients, therefore it is still secretive and underground. They both still avoid the police.
Escorts still need to be on guard for bad dates, possibly hiring protection.
Since it's a secretive activity, most transactions are in cash and are less likely to have full taxes paid even though they would benefit from writing off business expenses.
If the solicitation and bawdy house apspects of the criminal code were removed:
- The street scene would increase, which would annoy local residents.
- Less discrete incall locations would open up in residential buildings and annoy residents.
This is why I do not see the laws changing anytime soon.
The current situation is a compromise where incall locations are forced to be discreet so as to avoid resident complaints which could lead to scrutiny from the authorities. Outcalls are not an issue because they do not annoy third parties.
The current laws are only designed to keep the biz low key and under the radar of residents who live in the community. They are not designed to protect SP's or make life easy for clients.
- The street scene would increase, which would annoy local residents.
- Less discrete incall locations would open up in residential buildings and annoy residents.
This is why I do not see the laws changing anytime soon.
The current situation is a compromise where incall locations are forced to be discreet so as to avoid resident complaints which could lead to scrutiny from the authorities. Outcalls are not an issue because they do not annoy third parties.
The current laws are only designed to keep the biz low key and under the radar of residents who live in the community. They are not designed to protect SP's or make life easy for clients.
This is true in accordance to the communication law in relation to street prosititution. The communication law does not allow a sex trade worker to properly evaluate the john. They have to hop in a vehicle right away, instead of checking him out before doing so. The communication law makes it illegal to communicate for soliciting. These girls are driven away to a destination to God knows where. The constant busts in strip clubs and massage parlours are driving girls to work the street corners, thanks to our useless communication law, only pushing the girls to unlit desserted streets.gramage said:
The police and morality squad are only focused on the piggish pimps in TO and the underaged girls that are slaved by these morons. Drugs are the other issue. After that, you are good to go.LKD said:
Where do some of you get the idea that if all restrictions on prostitution were removed that the girls would magically start reporting their income? Here is a newsflash:
1. Income from prostitution services is already taxable.
2. Strip clubs are completely legal, yet I suspect many dancers do not report their full incomes.
3. Restaurants are legal, yet many restaurants do not report the full amount of their cash sales.
4. Construction is legal, yet many contractors do not report their cash sales.
Why would escorting be any different. Legal or otherwise, most sex trade sales are made in cash, not cheque or by credit card. This has to do with the clients' desire for anonymity and the sex professional's desire to evade taxes. This will not change even if incalls were to be "legalised" or if the sollicitation prohibitions were to be removed.
1. Income from prostitution services is already taxable.
2. Strip clubs are completely legal, yet I suspect many dancers do not report their full incomes.
3. Restaurants are legal, yet many restaurants do not report the full amount of their cash sales.
4. Construction is legal, yet many contractors do not report their cash sales.
Why would escorting be any different. Legal or otherwise, most sex trade sales are made in cash, not cheque or by credit card. This has to do with the clients' desire for anonymity and the sex professional's desire to evade taxes. This will not change even if incalls were to be "legalised" or if the sollicitation prohibitions were to be removed.
A quick summary:
Prostitution is LEGAL.
What's illegal is:
- Solicitation (offering x services for y amount, publically)
- Owning a common bawdy house (being the lease holder of a place where frequent prostitution occurs)
- Living off the avails (someone else prostituting and you benefiting financially from it, although you're not doing it yourself)
These laws are commonly referred to as the "anti-pimp" laws, and they're meant to protect women from abusive agency owners/boyfriends. There are no charges that can be layed against a woman found in an incall location or a client found visiting.
The industry isn't pushing for legalization and all the licensing, monitoring, and testing that comes with it. Nearly every escort advocate group is pushing for DECRIMINALIZATION: the repeal of all sex-industry related laws.
Debate away, but let's define what we're debating here.
More info:
http://sexwork.com/montreal/law.html (DaveinPhoenix is great for an legal overview)
http://www.walnet.org/csis/papers/sdavis.html#decriminalization (in depth examination)
Sex worker's advocate groups:
http://www.maggiestoronto.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/20070513000505/http:/www.walnet.org/csis/groups/swat/index.html (Sex Worker's Alliance of Toronto)
http://whore.bravehost.com/ (Women Helping Ourselves to Rights and Equality)
Yes, I'm obsessed, but if you have a spare night or two a month you really ought to come out anonymously and support other women in your industry. There are so many negative stereotypes and accusations, even on TERB - why not do everything you can? I'm all about smart women making educated decisions. You're welcome to PM me about any of these groups.
Becky@Mirage
Prostitution is LEGAL.
What's illegal is:
- Solicitation (offering x services for y amount, publically)
- Owning a common bawdy house (being the lease holder of a place where frequent prostitution occurs)
- Living off the avails (someone else prostituting and you benefiting financially from it, although you're not doing it yourself)
These laws are commonly referred to as the "anti-pimp" laws, and they're meant to protect women from abusive agency owners/boyfriends. There are no charges that can be layed against a woman found in an incall location or a client found visiting.
The industry isn't pushing for legalization and all the licensing, monitoring, and testing that comes with it. Nearly every escort advocate group is pushing for DECRIMINALIZATION: the repeal of all sex-industry related laws.
Debate away, but let's define what we're debating here.
More info:
http://sexwork.com/montreal/law.html (DaveinPhoenix is great for an legal overview)
http://www.walnet.org/csis/papers/sdavis.html#decriminalization (in depth examination)
Sex worker's advocate groups:
http://www.maggiestoronto.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/20070513000505/http:/www.walnet.org/csis/groups/swat/index.html (Sex Worker's Alliance of Toronto)
http://whore.bravehost.com/ (Women Helping Ourselves to Rights and Equality)
Yes, I'm obsessed, but if you have a spare night or two a month you really ought to come out anonymously and support other women in your industry. There are so many negative stereotypes and accusations, even on TERB - why not do everything you can? I'm all about smart women making educated decisions. You're welcome to PM me about any of these groups.
Becky@Mirage
Small time contractors operate largely on a cash business, but then they all sooner or later get audited and all hell breaks lose.johnhenrygalt said:
Of course, they all curse the system and how they are being persecuted, etc. I usually just try to change the subject because bottom line, they need to pay their taxes like the rest of us. You use the roads, schools, bridges, hospitals, etc. etc. you need to pay for it.
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enduser1
Legalization would probably, inter-alia, mean:Hiding said:
1) The industry will be run by unionized giovernment bureaucrats like alcohol and gambling is now. So prices will probably skyrocket.
2) There will be some degree of "quality control". Clients will be less reluctant to report "rip-offs".
Hiding said:A quick summary:
Prostitution is LEGAL.
What's illegal is:
- Solicitation (offering x services for y amount, publically)
- Owning a common bawdy house (being the lease holder of a place where frequent prostitution occurs)
- Living off the avails (someone else prostituting and you benefiting financially from it, although you're not doing it yourself)
These laws are commonly referred to as the "anti-pimp" laws, and they're meant to protect women from abusive agency owners/boyfriends. There are no charges that can be layed against a woman found in an incall location or a client found visiting.
1.Wasn't there a case last year in Toronto where an SP got busted for prostitution while working out of her condo . I believe the story also said she would be losing her condo because it was used in the commision of a crime
2. Isn't an agency incall a common bawdy house ?
Not trying to stir shit just trying to stay out of court for being a prisoner of carnal urgesKnowledge is power .
If true, that is the problem with the current law. Consenting adults engaged in wambo minki (even if money changes hands) behind closed doors should not be a crime. What kind of society do we live in? Of course, you are protected by the Charter if you are homo.smylee52 said:
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enduser1
Three more comments:
1) Some people might consider sex to be immoral and/or a sin but it shouldn't be a crime where the state can put you in jail and seize your condo.
2) Gambling is considered by some people to be immoral and/or a sin but it is perfectly legal in a STATE SANCTIONED facility but not in your basement. The difference is that the state gets a cut of the spoils when in a state facility.
3) PIMPS come in all forms. What about men (it is almost always men) who force their women to work 2-3 civilian jobs and live off the earnings?
1) Some people might consider sex to be immoral and/or a sin but it shouldn't be a crime where the state can put you in jail and seize your condo.
2) Gambling is considered by some people to be immoral and/or a sin but it is perfectly legal in a STATE SANCTIONED facility but not in your basement. The difference is that the state gets a cut of the spoils when in a state facility.
3) PIMPS come in all forms. What about men (it is almost always men) who force their women to work 2-3 civilian jobs and live off the earnings?
I also think that the street scene is for whatever reason dominated by women who actually are in need of help--drug addicts, alcoholics, and so on. I do not think it's just the residents we are protecting by making this illegal, although we should ensure that these woman are diverted to programmes that actually help them rather than giving them (futher) criminal records.alexmst said:
It would STILL be illegal to operate a business open to the public from a residential location. Zoning violation...
I do think this is most appropriately handled by a city inspector levying a fine rather than doling out criminal records.
I don't have any problem with what is illegal now so much as I have a problem with HOW it is illegal. Saving residents from being annoyed by an inappropriate business ought to be a zoning issue at the city level, i.e., illegal, and a fine, but not the kind of thing that leads to a criminal record.
GST Requirements
For more details on the information required, see the following chart:
Information required for sales invoices from GST/HST registrants Total sale under $30 Total sale from $30 to $149.99 Total sale of $150 or more
The vendor's business or trading name or the intermediary's nameX X X
Invoice date or, if an invoice has not been issued, the date on which the GST/HST is paid or payable X X X
Total amount paid or payable X X X
The total amount of GST/HST charged or that the amount paid or payable for each taxable supply (other than zero-rated supplies) includes GST/HST and the applicable rate of tax - X X
When some items are subject to GST and others to HST on the same invoice, a statement showing which items are subject to GST and which are subject to HST - X X
The vendor's Business Number or the intermediary's Business Number - X X
The buyer's name or trading name or the name of the duly authorized agent or representative - - X
A brief description of the goods or services - - X
Terms of payment - - X
Note: Intermediary of a person, in respect of a supply, means a registrant who, acting as an agent of the person under an agreement with the person, causes or facilitates the making of the supply by the person.
Sorry the cut and paste from cra didn't work very well.
Essentially a full page printed invoice is required for all sales over 150.00
For more details on the information required, see the following chart:
Information required for sales invoices from GST/HST registrants Total sale under $30 Total sale from $30 to $149.99 Total sale of $150 or more
The vendor's business or trading name or the intermediary's nameX X X
Invoice date or, if an invoice has not been issued, the date on which the GST/HST is paid or payable X X X
Total amount paid or payable X X X
The total amount of GST/HST charged or that the amount paid or payable for each taxable supply (other than zero-rated supplies) includes GST/HST and the applicable rate of tax - X X
When some items are subject to GST and others to HST on the same invoice, a statement showing which items are subject to GST and which are subject to HST - X X
The vendor's Business Number or the intermediary's Business Number - X X
The buyer's name or trading name or the name of the duly authorized agent or representative - - X
A brief description of the goods or services - - X
Terms of payment - - X
Note: Intermediary of a person, in respect of a supply, means a registrant who, acting as an agent of the person under an agreement with the person, causes or facilitates the making of the supply by the person.
Sorry the cut and paste from cra didn't work very well.
Essentially a full page printed invoice is required for all sales over 150.00
There are all kinds of annoying neighbours and the law does nothing. Examples are barking dogs, loud parties, people who cook all day (how can some people cook 24 hours a day?), etc. etc. But, the law will respond in 2 minutes flat to a complaint about adult people engaged quietly in wambo minki behind closed doors. Ridiculous.fuji said:
Indeed.Hiding said:
This report, produced by Jo Bindman, from the Network of sex Work Project, which I've linked to in another thread, clearly explains and makes the case for a decriminalization of sex work and a redefinition of prostitution as legitimate work, advocating for an approach to sex work that would grant sex workers with the same protections afforded to other workers under regular human rights and labour laws.
An excerpt from the report:
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enduser1
True. The woman who was evicted from her condo had her property sized under the Provincial "Civil Remedies" laws. Essentially they stole her stuff and kicked her out of the Country.genintoronto said:
EU
