I negotiated with my MD

[ClassAct]

Then why would they bother becoming doctors when plumbers can make more money?

Or, they'd go to the US where they can get paid more...

Right now we have a situation where FAR more young males and females WANT to become doctors, but can't because they obviously need a medical license - which requires formal education and training. But the medical community gets to keep a cap on the the number of applicants being admitted into medical school.

Imagine we had the same situation in say the IT industry. Lets say we had enforceable laws in place that said the public could only use an elecronic device or computer program that was writtien by a licensed practioner. And in order to obtain that license, one had to earn a degree from the computer science department from an accredited Canadian university. What would that do to the salaries of those graduating from accredited IT programs in Canada? Obviously they would skyrocket. And there would be a lot of public pressure to increase the number of accredited IT education programs get more licensed people out into the workforce writing computer code for the IT industry.

This is the same situation that exists in medicine today. And with the deomgraphics pointing to an aging population, the situation is only going to get worse - demand for doctors is going to far outpace supply.

Of course, any mention from the public of ideas to build more medical schools and therefore increase the number of doctors entering the workforce is going to meet HUGE resistance from the medical establishment itself....They will go on about how the flood of new med students will translate into a lower quality medical care in the future...more likely they are worried about their own earnings becoming diluted, once the supply curve begins to shift to the right.

 

[phail]

Right now we have a situation where FAR more young males and females WANT to become doctors, but can't because they obviously need a medical license - which requires formal education and training. But the medical community gets to keep a cap on the the number of applicants being admitted into medical school.

this is actually the purview of the provincial government and is not in the hands of physicians themselves, although the OMA plays a role.

in ontario, at least, we have more than enough physicians for all citizens, rather their distribution is an issue.

 

[Hangman]

Right now we have a situation where FAR more young males and females WANT to become doctors, but can't because they obviously need a medical license - which requires formal education and training. But the medical community gets to keep a cap on the the number of applicants being admitted into medical school.

Imagine we had the same situation in say the IT industry. Lets say we had enforceable laws in place that said the public could only use an elecronic device or computer program that was writtien by a licensed practioner. And in order to obtain that license, one had to earn a degree from the computer science department from an accredited Canadian university. What would that do to the salaries of those graduating from accredited IT programs in Canada? Obviously they would skyrocket. And there would be a lot of public pressure to increase the number of accredited IT education programs get more licensed people out into the workforce writing computer code for the IT industry.

This is the same situation that exists in medicine today. And with the deomgraphics pointing to an aging population, the situation is only going to get worse - demand for doctors is going to far outpace supply.

Of course, any mention from the public of ideas to build more medical schools and therefore increase the number of doctors entering the workforce is going to meet HUGE resistance from the medical establishment itself....They will go on about how the flood of new med students will translate into a lower quality medical care in the future...more likely they are worried about their own earnings becoming diluted, once the supply curve begins to shift to the right.

I don't think the IT industry is an appropriate comparison. Lots of professions are regulated, including lawyers and engineers.

I don't personally recall any such plans to increase med school capacities, nor any resistance to medical school expansion in Canada from the medical community, nor could I find any news articles or professional journals to support that position. Could you provide some?

Is it really that easy to just increase the capacity of medical training in Canada? It seems like you would need a bunch of professors, buildings, equipment and things. I'm not convinced that we have the ability to dramatically increase the number of medical graduates each year, unless you open up the teaching jobs to unqualified people, which would meet resistance. That's reasonable I think.

You seem to believe that the limit on the production of new doctors is set by the medical establishment, whereas I expect it has more to do with the availability of teaching resources that are of acceptable quality in Canada. If you wanted more doctors, we could just automatically license all the medical doctors from third world countries who immigrate here. That would achieve the same effect you're talking about, would it not? More doctors!

 

[ClassAct]

I don't think the IT industry is an appropriate comparison. Lots of professions are regulated, including lawyers and engineers.

I don't personally recall any such plans to increase med school capacities, nor any resistance to medical school expansion in Canada from the medical community, nor could I find any news articles or professional journals to support that position. Could you provide some?

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/Commerce.Web/product_files/May05ffesmail.pdf


And the main problem is due to the demographic shift we are undergoing in Canada - our aging population will continue to demand more medical care from a medical establishment that isn't supplying us with a commensurate number of doctors to supply those services.

While this might be good news for those earning their living as a doctor, it also creates very bad situation for users of the the health-care system.

Why have the instances of medical tourism to third-world countries suddenly increased out of nowhwere in the last decade?

 

[train]

Did he ever say where he got it transplanted to ?

 

[Moraff]

Imagine we had the same situation in say the IT industry.

True costs would go up... but on the plus side when I called tech support about a computer problem I might get someone who knows what he's talking about......

 

[james t kirk]

You could easily double the number of med students as there is NO SHORTAGE of qualified applicants. If memory serves, U of T Med school cut of for acceptance to Med School was a 3.9 GPA. You can't tell me that a kid with a 3.5 wouldn't make a good family physician.

The OMA would never go for it in a million years.

 

[Hangman]

You could easily double the number of med students as there is NO SHORTAGE of qualified applicants. If memory serves, U of T Med school cut of for acceptance to Med School was a 3.9 GPA. You can't tell me that a kid with a 3.5 wouldn't make a good family physician.

The OMA would never go for it in a million years.

But where would they sit? It's not like the classrooms are half-empty right now...

 

[ClassAct]

But where would they sit? It's not like the classrooms are half-empty right now...

Where there is a will there is a way.

But as James T Kirk correctly points out, this is an issue the OMA wouldn't even want up for debate in the first place.....its in their interest to keep this club exclusive.

 

[Hangman]

Absolutely. There is conspiracy to keep us down everywhere. Their refusal to address something like this is clear proof of that.

 

[Big Rig]

unless you have actively practiced medicine, you have no idea of the depth and complexity of this topic.

and the more you say the more obviously you are ignorant on the topic.

Neither do you have such knowledge so why do you assume I am wrong ?

Of course this idea needs to be studied and I could be wrong. But I strongly suspect I am right

It is a paradigm breaking idea and such ideas are always ridiculed at first but I am surprised that no one sees my point of view

Midwives have taken over a medical procedure, for example

I would be very surprised if a course outside of medical school could not qualify laymen to do hair transplants and this would bring the price down to where the working man could enjoy this procedure


You are naive to think that the medical practice is not a business and behaves like other businesses. MD's go into cosmetic surgery because that is where the money is

 

[Big Rig]

What do you want? Would you like us to all agree to your wild crackpot assertions based solely on your assurances?

I do not believe you have the technical background or experience necessary to assess whether or not medical training is required or not for hair transplants??!![/I]

Go sell crazy somewhere else.

I do not see it as crazy, I freely admit I could be wrong but I see it as paradigm breaking

Making over 20 k for a few sessions of a few hours work is crazy

This is not a non issue ! the price of this procedure is out of the reach of most working men and I suspect this is because of monopolistic greed

 

[Big Rig]

I think intelligence is a two-way street, and you've got to give it to get it back. .

Appreciate your honest response but I am giving it

Moreover, there is a large pool of providers for hair transplants, some MD's and some not. You certainly have the right to choose The Hair Club For Men, or wear a Shatner-esque toupe if you want to pay a lower price. So to connote MD's have a "monopoly" in this field is absolutely ridiculous. Use Rogaine if you want...

Finally, I believe that you didn't state this was a hair transplant in your original post.

Meant to state it was hair transplants but what I am saying could include other procedures as well I speak only of the one I have first hand experience with

MD's do have a monopoly as hair transplants stand alone. A wig is completley different and rogaine will only prevent hair loss not grow your hair back

 

[Brill]

Times change in the medical world, who knows what the future will bring.

Here's what I found on wiki about barbering-
The barbers of old days were also surgeons and dentists. In addition to haircutting, hairdressing, and shaving, barbers performed surgery, bloodletting and leeching, fire cupping, enemas, and the extraction of teeth. Thus they were called barber surgeons, and they formed their first organization in 1094. The barber pole red and white in spiral indicated the two crafts, surgery in red and barbering in white. The barber was paid higher than the surgeon until surgeons were entered into British war ships during its many naval wars. Some of the duties of the barber included neck manipulation, cleaning of ears and scalp, draining of boils, fistula and lancing of cysts with wicks.

Does anyone here negotiate the price with their barber?

 

[Big Rig]

competition is completely irrelevant. the issue is COMPETENCE. come on people.
prices? this is not a fuckin grocery store. look up how physicians in ontario get paid.

The price of elective cosmetic surgery is not controlled by the board and doctors charge their own prices

 

[Big Rig]

Oh, yeah. The Original Poster seems to be long gone.

Had to go to work Hangman



I will always admit defeat in any idea and be grateful that I have become smarter. You same way?

My idea is different but that is called breaking the mould

 

[Big Rig]

Times change in the medical world, who knows what the future will bring.

Here's what I found on wiki about barbering-
The barbers of old days were also surgeons and dentists. In addition to haircutting, hairdressing, and shaving, barbers performed surgery, bloodletting and leeching, fire cupping, enemas, and the extraction of teeth. Thus they were called barber surgeons, and they formed their first organization in 1094. The barber pole red and white in spiral indicated the two crafts, surgery in red and barbering in white. The barber was paid higher than the surgeon until surgeons were entered into British war ships during its many naval wars. Some of the duties of the barber included neck manipulation, cleaning of ears and scalp, draining of boils, fistula and lancing of cysts with wicks.

Makes me extremely grateful for the quality of medical care in this country and for doctors

But that does not mean it is not a business monopoly that needs to be broken in some areas

 

[ClassAct]

Makes me extremely grateful for the quality of medical care in this country and for doctors

But that does not mean it is not a business monopoly that needs to be broken in some areas

A government regulated medical industry is not a bad thing in my opinion. If we do as you suggest, and start allowing anybody with a 2-year certificate to start performing hair-transplants or laser-eye surgery, I imagine we will start hearing of some serious horror-stories from patients. This industry needs to be regulated in my opinion because it relates to personal health of individuals - which should NOT be treated lightly. The training and education we provide our doctors is something we should be proud of...we just don't train and educate anywhere near as much as we should.

Any government regulated industry needs to serve the needs of the PUBLIC at large...not the doctors, not health-insurance companies, not the pharmaceutical firms. The job of the goverment to make sure that the public's interests are being served.

Now, we have an obvious shortage of doctors, so its the duty of our ELECTED governemnt to fill that need....But, they instead prefer to bow down to powerful special interest groups like the OMA...and nothing is done to address the problem....the rate of growth of MD's is FAR exceeded by the demand for their services (due to an aging popluation base).

 

[Big Rig]

A government regulated medical industry is not a bad thing in my opinion. If we do as you suggest, and start allowing anybody with a 2-year certificate to start performing hair-transplants or laser-eye surgery, I imagine we will start hearing of some serious horror-stories from patients. This industry needs to be regulated in my opinion because it relates to personal health of individuals - which should NOT be treated lightly. The training and education we provide our doctors is something we should be proud of...we just don't train and educate anywhere near as much as we should.).

I question your belief

First, there are horror stories of transplant victims because to do them all you need is to be an MD. Md's are not taught this procedure yet they are allowed to do it! They qualify themselves by taking seminars that are not regulated or even mandatory

Under my plan everyone would be qualified and the price would drop by well over half so the working man could enjoy this procedure..[/QUOTE]

Any government regulated industry needs to serve the needs of the PUBLIC at large...not the doctors, not health-insurance companies, not the pharmaceutical firms. The job of the government to make sure that the publics interests are being served.

Now, we have an obvious shortage of doctors, so its the duty of our ELECTED government to fill that need....But, they instead prefer to bow down to powerful special interest groups like the OMA...and nothing is done to address the problem....the rate of growth of Md's is FAR exceeded by the demand for their services (due to an aging population base).

And my idea would increase Md's to do MD work instead of overpricing procedures that anyone else who is trained to qualifications set forth by a responsible organization could do

We agree on the OMA as being as self serving institute and they are the ones that hold this monopoly I propose we break up where applicable

Go into any transplant office and you will confronted by a trained salesman using sales techniques in a fucking doctor's office !

 

[phail]

Makes me extremely grateful for the quality of medical care in this country and for doctors

But that does not mean it is not a business monopoly that needs to be broken in some areas

when you refer to "...in some areas." your idea may definitely be more applicable. we all know that many good ideas are initially met with criticism and skepticism, and maybe this is how some aspects of medicine will be practiced in the future. it is done already in some areas. for example in the US, patients may only see a PA (physician assistant) for routine family medicine issues. and some nurse practitioners can prescribe simple medications.
however it wont apply to highly technical specialties where you would want the practitioner to be highly trained and skilled.