I got busted - any ideas ?

[candles]

Hi guyz

i went to a MP in Markham (licensed) around 9pm on Thursday - the night of the raids. there were 2 of us... my friend waiting for me in the lounge and myself who went in. About 10 mins into the massage, (the girl hadn't even done anything); I heard a loud commotion - the girl walked out of the room to find out what was going on..so I naturally got off the table and put on my clothes.
A minute later, two plainclothes York Region office with flashlights opened my door and the other rooms and ordered everyone to get out of the rooms.

I put on my clothes and walked into the lounge and saw 3 guys and 2 ladies - they identified themselves as York Region and 2 Markham by-law officers. They asked us to sit down and give them a statement about what happened. They also pulled all the girls out.

I told the officers exactly what had happened - they asked me if I was aware the place was supposed to be closed after 9pm. (I said I did not - we were there at 9:10pm). They asked me if I paid the girl, how much ($40) and what happened - to which I truthfully told them that nothing happened b/c 10 mins into the massage they busted in. They asked for my drivers license and that of my friend, and then the female officer separated us and asked us 20 questions...i guess to see if our stories matched up.

Then they warned us that we would have to go to court to "testify" against the MP. I told them that nothing had happened, and that the girl was fully clothed giving me the massage (truth). The female officer said she didn't care..i was still going to court. There was another Oriental customer who was apparently in there with the girl Naked..so they asked him to leave and told him on the way out he was going to court as well.

I think we spent about 20 mins giving our statements and they let us go. The male officers were pretty cool..they said we wouldn't be charged.. but the female officer seemed pretty pissed off. I think she thought all guys that go there must be pigs or something.

Does anyone know if a conviction is possible for this? I mean, although nothing happened, the place is licensed (the officers confirmed that) - I was still caught with my "pants down" literally and that concerns me.

They also told my friend he'd be going to court too.

Anyhow.. i think i'll be laying low for a while.

later

~candles

 

[gala]

Candles-- I answered you some on the other thread, but let me ask you: why do you think you were "busted" and what do you mean by that? It sounds to me that you were simply questioned, and they've got your named down as a potential witness. I wouldn't describe that as busted.
Did they give you a ticket or any kind of notice to appear? If not, just forget about it until something else happens. If they did give you something take it to a lawyer and discuss.

 

[zydeco]

Candles- Unless there is more to the situation than you descibed - it does not appear as though you were actually arrested. Sounds like you've been given some sound advice here, however, don't make the mistake of relying solely on advice ( no matter how well intentioned ) that you receive here on Terb. If you are in doubt - contact a lawyer. No offense to the actual and armchair lawyers among us on Terb.

 

[Paul Waters]

You are in a bit of a catch-22. If you don't talk, you run a high risk of pissing them off, and motivating them to do everything they can to make your life difficult. Even dragging you into court and making you testify against the MP is a punishment in itself.

You are not obliged under the law to say anything, and as far as I recall, you are not obliged to identify yourself to a police officer except where required to by law, such as when in operation of a motor vehicle.

But, if you decline, they may want to hassle you by charging you with something, like being a found-in in a common bawdy house. Then you must identify yourself, and could get a trip to a station, get finger printed and lose a bunch of hours from your evening. If they really want to hastle your ass they won't drop the charges until you appear in court.

The best course of action is to have your cell phone with you, and a lawyer who you can call. Indicate very clearly that you will do everything that you are required to do under the law, and that you wish to speak to your lawyer.

However the police really don't want to be spending their time hastling MP's. If there are victim crimes involved, sure, they are as motivated as you and I want them to be.

Try to spot the officer who looks like he knows he has far better things to be doing, especially if another one seems to be on a crusade. Ask him/her what they need from you, and try to give it.

Generally, the higher ranking the force, ie OPP over regional, RCMP the best, the more concerned they are with dealing with real crime, and less likely to be responding to political pressure.

Good luck, but I don't think you need it.

 

[The Baroness]

3) if you go to court and testify, invoke the Canada Evidence Act (so nothing can be used against you)


There no longer is a Canada Evidence Act

 

[Maddog]

The chick cop was just trying to look tough in front of the guys. You were not charged, nor ticketed, or anything else. They were just trying to put a scare into you. Was the establishment itself even charged? If not, definately nothing to worry about. I believe York Region has a website where you can check to see if the establishment was charged.

 

[Blazr]

candles - the chick cop sounded like she was a bit jellous and wanted in on some of the action herself.. ( its a girl thing )

but on a serious note, it sounds the cops walked in a bit early before the action even started...you could have just told the cops nicely that you wish to not provide any statements at this time. Ask to speak to your lawyer first before anything is said or before anything is put down on paper. You have that right! Dont let cops force you to say anything regardless of the situation. They all know what goes on in these places, cops just think that if they use the element of suprize on people, they will get the citizen to buckle under presure and get them to say something that they can use in court.... let us know how ya make out

 

[shine]

You are in a bit of a catch-22. If you don't talk, you run a high risk of pissing them off, and motivating them to do everything they can to make your life difficult. Even dragging you into court and making you testify against the MP is a punishment in itself.

You are not obliged under the law to say anything, and as far as I recall, you are not obliged to identify yourself to a police officer except where required to by law, such as when in operation of a motor vehicle.

PW is right. If asked questions by police, you're under no obligation to answer them period. Putting aside candles innocent circumstance for the moment, even if a police officer finds you committing an illegal act (ex. assault, theft etc), even then you do not have to answer any questions. The only thing you're required to provide is the sort of information found on your driver's licence. Other than that, stay tight-lipped and never volunteer information. If you're being charged or arrested with something, the best thing to do is contact a lawyer. The police may play mind games with you, saying it'll be better to talk now and that they'll help you if they can, but do not take them at their word. They have a job to do and want to see that they get it done.

Candles, if you get subpoeaned to court, you must attend and answer any questions truthfully. If you get a subpoena, you should contact a lawyer so you'll know what rights you have before testifying. But as far as you personally getting charged with anything, from the sounds of it, it doesn't seem likely.

 

[Geographic]

3) if you go to court and testify, invoke the Canada Evidence Act (so nothing can be used against you)


There no longer is a Canada Evidence Act [/B]

Of course there is a Canada Evidence Act ==> there has to be one.

However, I believe Winston is referring to sections 7 and 13 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms which protect witnesses from incrimination in relation to testimony given.
In fact s. 5 of the CEA states no witness shall be excused from answering any question on the ground that the answer to the question may tend to criminate him, or may tend to establish his liability to a civil proceding at the instance of the Crown or of any person.

 

[gala]

Re: Re: I got busted - any ideas ?

You are not under any kind of legal problem here. This is purely a way for the officers to deal with you. If you were not arrested then, you cannot be arrested later on -as there is no way to collect any future evidence on this situation.

I don't think there's any chance he's going to get arrested, but just on a technical note: he COULD be charged later. The crown could review the cops note and decide that yes there is actually a case; or the cops could learn something by interviewing others; etc.

However, so far as I can tell he did nothing illegal. I think this has to be the most over-analyzed police questining in TERB history at this point.

 

[The Baroness]

Of course there is a Canada Evidence Act ==> there has to be one.

However, I believe Winston is referring to sections 7 and 13 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms which protect witnesses from incrimination in relation to testimony given.
In fact s. 5 of the CEA states no witness shall be excused from answering any question on the ground that the answer to the question may tend to criminate him, or may tend to establish his liability to a civil proceding at the instance of the Crown or of any person.

Interesting my lawyer told me that section is no longer in effect....
Perhaps I need a new lawyer...lol

 

[Big Bear]

Similar Experience

Candles, I went through a similar experience a number of years ago. In my case I received a summons in the mail about 3 weeks after the fact charging me with an offence (being a found-in as I recall). I was not charged that night but they did take my information on how to contact me. Incidentally the summons looked like a traffic ticket which is what both I and my wife thought it was. (Never showed her the summons however)

I had a number of legal friends including an assistant Crown who told me to get a lawyer, which I didy. He had me go to the first appearance by myself as he said it was not necessary for him to be there as they would only read the charge and then they would decide whether or not to proceed. The judge reviewed the Crown's evidence and heard me plead not guilty and then kicked the charge out. Cost was less than $300 for the lawyer but I have to admit I was sweating bullets in the courtroom.

I was reasonably co-operative in terms of answering the questions and both my friend the assistant Crown and my lawyer said that probably worked in my favour. The comment from the crown was that when accused become smartasses is when they go after them. Likewise my lawyer told me that you should tell them information they can easily find out such as your name and address but once they start questioning you about your activities you should ask a question such as "I'd like to talk to you about that but I'm not sure of my rights having seen all this on TV. Could I please speak to a lawyer first before answering".

In most cases they will stop there and let you go and then charge you later or else they will take you to the station for more questioning. There is always a duty counsel there who will shut you up if they try to ask you anything over the line if you don't have a lawyer you can call at that time.

Good luck and it sounds like you should be able to beat this.