Hypothetical: STDs

Ryan

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Sep 5, 2001
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The scenario:

I have just found out I have an STD. I am checked regularly for purposes of insurance, job, whatever. I have only had sexual contact with one woman in the last 6 months. The woman is an often reviewed SP on this board.

If I were a fellow contributing member of this board I would want me to disclose this info. The members could read my post, challenge me, judge my credibility for themselves.

Why is this not allowed?

You could make the argument that I am hurting the lady's business, endangering her income, etc. How is that different than a scathingly negative review, many of which are allowed to proliferate regularly? (one reason many of us come here)

With respect,
Ryan
 

calloway

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Feb 25, 2003
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Possibly because there's no proof you've only slept with one woman in the past six months. Anyone could come on this board and state what you did.
 

Hard Idle

Active member
Jan 15, 2005
4,959
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I guess it would just be to easy for an professional (and known clients) to be smeared by a spiteful ex-customer or competitor, or even by a person making an honest mistake (jumping to conclusions, missed diagnosis...).
 

baci2004

Bad girl Luv'r
Mar 21, 2004
2,573
1
36
53
At the range!!!
Ryan said:
The scenario:

I have just found out I have an STD. I am checked regularly for purposes of insurance, job, whatever. I have only had sexual contact with one woman in the last 6 months. The woman is an often reviewed SP on this board.

If I were a fellow contributing member of this board I would want me to disclose this info. The members could read my post, challenge me, judge my credibility for themselves.

Why is this not allowed?

You could make the argument that I am hurting the lady's business, endangering her income, etc. How is that different than a scathingly negative review, many of which are allowed to proliferate regularly? (one reason many of us come here)

With respect,
Ryan
Pm Sheik or Fred with the name and let them confirm it. If it is in fact true they will post the name in a nice large font. If it's not true...then we save the board from another 50 page thread about nothing :)
 

jgd

Member
Aug 30, 2004
250
4
18
Ontario
You try to initiate an intelligent debate and you get ................drivell! Keep trying Ryan.
I think you are right. Unfounded slander of an SP can be done in lots of ways and it seems to me most of it is left on the site. If for example there is a bait and switch or a scary fraud, it makes headlines. Worst case scenario is we are out of pocket some money. STD's can be a life altering situation, and at the very least its a health issue. :cool:
 

Ryan

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Sep 5, 2001
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jgd said:
You try to initiate an intelligent debate and you get ................drivell! Keep trying Ryan.
I think you are right. Unfounded slander of an SP can be done in lots of ways and it seems to me most of it is left on the site. If for example there is a bait and switch or a scary fraud, it makes headlines. Worst case scenario is we are out of pocket some money. STD's can be a life altering situation, and at the very least its a health issue. :cool:
Thank you. This recent (excuse the pun) outbreak of postings on STDs has indeed illuminated for many members the pupose of this little enterprise called TERB. Making money.

The SPs pay the bills here. If we were paying membership dues it would be a different story. Can't complain about that, capitalism at its best.

I just wish the guys who run it (especially Mods) would be a bit more honest about their motives instead of hiding behind laughable sentiments of "fairness to the SP", etc.

Ryan
 

Ryan

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Sep 5, 2001
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Strongbeau said:
And I don't think that "fairness to the SP" is a laughable sentiment. If you think it is, and I hope you don't, then that's too bad.
On the contrary, it is quite a noble sentiment. I simply do not believe it is the motivation in play here.

Ryan
 

JoyfulC

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Sep 23, 2004
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Speaking hypothetically...

... even the medical profession cannot reveal the names of persons testing postive for STDs without a court order.

It's a matter of privacy.

If this were an actual case, I'd recommend that the person who believes that s/he has acquired an STD from a sex worker or from someone who regularly uses the services of sex workers go directly to the health authorities and alert them. They, in turn, can get court orders to have the person in question tested and take appropriate action.

Chat boards aren't the appropriate way to handle this type of information. Chat boards have no ability to medically verify anything, nor the legal authority to violate someone's medical privacy for the sake of public health.

..c..
 

The Shake

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Feb 3, 2004
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Ryan said:
How is that different than a scathingly negative review, many of which are allowed to proliferate regularly? (one reason many of us come here)
The difference is that a scathing review is completely subjective, both on the part of the writer and the reader.

There is nothing subjective about claiming that a person (client or escort) has a sexually transmitted disease and that you contracted said disease from them.

Some thoughts:

1) It's interesting that the typical assumption in such cases (the incident on the old John Wal-Mart board comes to mind) is that the escort can't be trusted and must be "outed" to protect clients, but few people (if any) argue that the client should also be outed for the protection of escorts or other partners that he might infect.

I mean, Ryan hasn't offered to provide his name, photo, or contact information to any BCL's so that escorts can know to avoid him. Of course, the obvious response would be, "Well, I'm not going to sleep with anyone so I don't need to be identified". But, seriously, how do we know that? Why do we assume that Ryan will do the right thing, but that she needs to be shamed into doing so? Do we value the health of clients more than sex workers? Or do we just believe that the client's right to privacy trumps the escort's sexual safety?

2) The accusations are almost always leveled with a great deal of certainty, even if the surrounding circumstances seem to go against basic common sense. I find it fascinating that virtually every John who comes forward with a STD accusation knows with absolute certainty that she gave it to me. These accusations are typically accompanied by a she's the only woman I've slept with in the past six months - yeah right - which is later amended to the only escort or in the past six months on a Tuesday while wearing a beret, and so forth. Of course, the accusers rarely have anything beyond a passing knowledge of STD's - quiz them about incubation periods and they're lost. Discuss non-symptomatic primary outbreaks and things really start to get muddy. But, hey, their gut tells them that it was the escort that did it, and that's a hell of a lot easier than worrying if your wife is screwing the milkman, isn't it?

Clearly, the escort should be notified that she may be a carrier or might have been infected by you. That's the responsible approach, not outing her and ruining her reputation based on what you think happened.

3) At the end of the day, doesn't the Scarlet Letter approach just create a false sense of security? Herpes, HPV, etc. are pretty much endemic in our population now. It is likely that, if you have had numerous sexual partners (escorts or otherwise) that you have been exposed to a variety of STD's. There is an inherent risk associated with sexual activity and, at the end of the day, "outing" someone who you think has a STD does little to actually reduce the risks of catching one. Given the obvious issues of proof (you don't have any), and the virtual Pandora's box of privacy issues (see #1 above), it's hard to justify allowing some anonymous guy on a review board level an accusation that could wreck a woman's business - or worse.

TERB's policy is a responsible one. Obviously, there are exceptions to any rule. The severity of the STD and the existence of actual evidence, as opposed to mere accusations and speculation, should guide moderators in their decision.
 

Ryan

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Sep 5, 2001
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Let's all remember:

We are the SPs customers.

We are not TERB's customers.

SPs are TERB's customers.


So when push comes to shove and it is our intrerests against the SPs, who do you think TERB (the Mods) will side with? Nothing wrong with this, as long as we all realize who is working for who.

Ryan
 

train

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Jul 29, 2002
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Ryan said:
Let's all remember:

We are the SPs customers.

We are not TERB's customers.

SPs are TERB's customers.


So when push comes to shove and it is our intrerests against the SPs, who do you think TERB (the Mods) will side with? Nothing wrong with this, as long as we all realize who is working for who.

Ryan
If what you say was truly the case it would be an awfully short-sighted business model . The hoobbyist/john is the most important element of this board . How many agencies or sp's do you think would be lining up to spend their advertizing dollars on a board with no hobbyists/consumers ?
 

oral.com

Sapere Aude, Carpe Diem
Jul 21, 2004
905
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Toronto
JoyfulC said:
If this were an actual case, I'd recommend that the person who believes that s/he has acquired an STD from a sex worker or from someone who regularly uses the services of sex workers go directly to the health authorities and alert them. They, in turn, can get court orders to have the person in question tested and take appropriate action.
..c..

In the event of a postive STD test the lab is by law required to forward those results to the Medical officer of health. Their department follows up on the individual tested positive and their contacts.

The board is not the proper place to investigate this issue
 

HappyHookers

New member
Feb 2, 2005
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Ryan said:
Let's all remember:

We are the SPs customers.

We are not TERB's customers.

SPs are TERB's customers.


So when push comes to shove and it is our intrerests against the SPs, who do you think TERB (the Mods) will side with? Nothing wrong with this, as long as we all realize who is working for who.

Ryan

How ignorant is that??? You think this has to do with SP's being TERB's customers??? Come one. The women mentioned in the previous threads where not paying advertisers, so this agreument doesn't fly....

HH
 
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The Shake

Winner (with a capital W)
Feb 3, 2004
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Ryan said:
Let's all remember:

We are the SPs customers.

We are not TERB's customers.

SPs are TERB's customers.


So when push comes to shove and it is our intrerests against the SPs, who do you think TERB (the Mods) will side with? Nothing wrong with this, as long as we all realize who is working for who.

Ryan
Interesting that multiple people have explained why this is a bad idea yet, rather than refute or discuss any of the points raised, you just blabber on about the mods agenda. Hmmmmmm...
 

JoyfulC

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Sep 23, 2004
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oral.com said:
In the event of a postive STD test the lab is by law required to forward those results to the Medical officer of health. Their department follows up on the individual tested positive and their contacts.
Actually, it depends on the disease in question. Some are reportable, some are deemed not to be. For example, I don't think they follow up on such things as herpes, gardinerella, HPV, chlamydia, etc. (Maybe I'm wrong, but last I looked, they didn't.)

The board is not the proper place to investigate this issue
Hear, hear!

..c..
 

Siggie_Fruend

Banned
Mar 1, 2005
2
0
0
The Shake said:
Why do we assume that Ryan will do the right thing, but that she needs to be shamed into doing so?
Ryan can refrain from sexual contact with anyone and not have anything more serious than a case of blue balls. An SP refraining from sexual contact means she will have no income. Like it or not Shake that is a powerful motivation for the SP to be less than truthful. Even if she is later "proven" to have an STD by TERB moderators (and I'd like to know what "proof" TERB moderators get in a case like this) she can easily change her name and carry on in the business. Ryan can't change his name and start a new personal life for himself. Economic motivations are powerful indeed.
I am not saying Ryan is right or wrong here. But you've set a standard of proof that effectively removes all protection from the customer on this board. That isn't surprising given the source of your revenues, but a little more honesty might remove the false sense of security I see being promoted here by TERB moderators.
 

Siggie_Fruend

Banned
Mar 1, 2005
2
0
0
Sheik said:
The standard of proof has to be on both sides. The only proof a terb moderator requires from the lady is a doctor's test results and proof of her ID. Same thing of a client that's been accused of having an std.

We just dont permit discussion of names until proof is there.
Yes, but...
If an SP were trying to hide the fact that she has an STD your policy makes it very simple for her to cover her tracks. All she has to do is deny you the results of an STD test, and she would be within her rights to do so. In other words you will never be able to post a warning of an SP with an STD here because if she does the responsible thing and removes herself from the business, there's no need to post any warning, and if she doesn't quit working she can deny you the proof you require without predjudice to herself.
The same thing applies to the customer. If you think I'd provide you with prrof of my identity, and the results of an STD test, based on an accusation on a review board you're just not playing with a full deck.
So, when Baci2004 said "Pm Sheik or Fred with the name and let them confirm it. If it is in fact true they will post the name in a nice large font" he was wrong. The game is rigged in favour of an infected SP, and in effect TERB has NO policy in place that would allow warning of an infected SP or customer whatsoever. By stating that you DO have a policy in effect that "balances the needs" of both the SPs and the customers, you are creating a false sense of security.(No news isn't always good news.) That strikes me as irresponsible.

We just dont permit discussion of names until proof is there.
It would be more honest to say that TERB has no policies in place to warn anyone of potentially infectious SP or customer. because you will never get that "proof".
 

JoyfulC

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Sep 23, 2004
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Siggie_Fruend said:
Yes, but...
If an SP were trying to hide the fact that she has an STD your policy makes it very simple for her to cover her tracks. All she has to do is deny you the results of an STD test, and she would be within her rights to do so.
Yep.

The same thing applies to the customer. If you think I'd provide you with prrof of my identity, and the results of an STD test, based on an accusation on a review board you're just not playing with a full deck.
Yep.

This is exactly why a review board is NOT the appropriate place to deal with STDs.

Years ago, a chick my husband was with got pregnant (or so she claimed), and she phoned up my husband, asking him to get a fertility test done. He asked her why, and she said, "well, you've been married a number of years, and your wife has never gotten pregnant." To which he replied, "my wife has a sound understanding of birth control." She went on to theorize that maybe he wasn't "fertile" -- my husband told her, "when handling a gun, always assume it's loaded."

I think the same is true of STDs. Anyone who believes that they can have unprotected (or even, in some cases, protected) sex and there is no risk is a totaly idiot. Sex with another person ALWAYS carries some risk.

So, when Baci2004 said "Pm Sheik or Fred with the name and let them confirm it. If it is in fact true they will post the name in a nice large font" he was wrong. The game is rigged in favour of an infected SP
Or client -- whose true identity of contact information TERB might never know.

and in effect TERB has NO policy in place that would allow warning of an infected SP or customer whatsoever. By stating that you DO have a policy in effect that "balances the needs" of both the SPs and the customers, you are creating a false sense of security.(No news isn't always good news.) That strikes me as irresponsible.
The policy is designed to protect the innocent (or at least the unproven) from false allegations -- not to assure that customers or SPs are provided with information re: STD carriers.

The latter is something that TERB cannot reasonably do. It's often impossible for health care providers to sort out who gave whom what -- and don't for a minute think that it's more significant that an SP have something than a customer. If a customer learns he has something, he might be missing out on a bit of fun while he gets treated -- for an SP, she might be missing out on her livelihood and the support for her family. When you look at it that way, it seems like the customers have the greater responsiblity to ensure that they're not interacting when they have reason to believe they may be infected.

..c..
 
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