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Hypothetical Question re; Divorce

H

homer

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2001
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Hello:

Just thinking about my brother in laws situation. He's not happy and his wife is making his life miserable, out of spite, I believe. They have 2 kids under age 6 that he dotes over so obviously cares about. Money is going to be an issue as he works, and she sits around and "takes care of the kids" (watches soaps/Oprah) all day and takes them to McDonalds. What are his options? I don't think he would just walk out on them, if it was just her, sure, but not on the kids. I think he'll stick it out for them, but is it worse to live this way? Any inside information, experience?

Thanks

Homer
 
oh boy

homer said:
Hello:

Just thinking about my brother in laws situation. He's not happy and his wife is making his life miserable, out of spite, I believe. They have 2 kids under age 6 that he dotes over so obviously cares about. Money is going to be an issue as he works, and she sits around and "takes care of the kids" (watches soaps/Oprah) all day and takes them to McDonalds. What are his options? I don't think he would just walk out on them, if it was just her, sure, but not on the kids. I think he'll stick it out for them, but is it worse to live this way? Any inside information, experience?

Thanks

Homer
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you think he is unhappy now. wait until you see how the courts treat men during a divorce. wish him luck.
 
The majority of marital problems can be solved by some one interceding and helping.
 
homer said:
... she sits around and "takes care of the kids" (watches soaps/Oprah) all day and takes them to McDonalds.
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I'd be very careful about having this sort of attitude. It smacks of "I don't really know what she's doing but it doesn't bring in money so it must be nothing." That sort of attitude will kill you in divorce court.

It might be true. But, then again, anger might be clouding your judgement and that will impact the decisions you make.

I'd suggest marital counselling.
 
Keebler Elf said:
I'd be very careful about having this sort of attitude. It smacks of "I don't really know what she's doing but it doesn't bring in money so it must be nothing." That sort of attitude will kill you in divorce court.

It might be true. But, then again, anger might be clouding your judgement and that will impact the decisions you make.

I'd suggest marital counselling.
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I strongly second the recommendation regarding marital counseling.

How close are you to your sister and what is your relationship like - if it is close and good then perhaps a friendly word might help - even so I'd let your brother-in-law call the plays on this. If it isn't or your sister has a "to the barricades" personality then keeping quiet will probably be of greater benefit e.g. don't stir-up trouble.

If it is truly approaching God Awful then if your brother-in-law knows a Matrimonial Lawyer he or she might be able to give him some useful advice as a friend. The problem with this of course is that if your sister finds out - to her it may well seem either that "he wants out" or "is about to go preemptive on her" or both.

I sincerely hope that everything works out and has a good end!
 
From personal experience, my advice is to get a divorce sooner rather than later.
It only gets more expensive over time, when the wife can claim that she has been
home for 20 years and cannot ever be expected to work, and she is entitled to keep
up the expensive lifestyle she has enjoyed while the husband climed the corporate ladder.
 
first off i dont know homer but you guys are making an assumption that its his sisters husband when from the way he is talking i would guess it is homers wifes brother not his sisters husband -- hey i could be wrong but it seems the more logical situation based on what hes told us
i know next to nothing about marriage so i am not one to give advice as to how to fix it but counseling sounds like a great idea
on the flip side if he thinks he is headed for a divorce and a custody battle he might want to start making sure he saves trinkets and pics the kids make for him and put them on his desk @ work so he can have character witnesses who can say how involved of a dad he is, as well and on the same note on weekends start taking them to the zoo, science center, museum, etc (with or without the mother) and make sure to take lots of pics and videos with him and the kids (again with or without the mother) in them - wouldnt hurt to put such pics on his desk at work too
if theres a chance to meet the kids preschool/daycare teachers then go in and do it
all these things i am saying will just help him establish later on that he is/was an active part of the kids lives and will probably help him in a custody battle
i am not a lawyer though so none of this will necessarily hold up in court or do him any good but hey it doesnt hurt and besides he should spend time with his kids anyway :)
 
The more interesting question would be:
For those of you having gone through a divorce would you go through with it again if you could turn back the clock or would you try to make it work or just try to stick it out?
 
Meister said:
The more interesting question would be:
For those of you having gone through a divorce would you go through with it again if you could turn back the clock or would you try to make it work or just try to stick it out?
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I am divorced and happy that I am. However, that being said I wish the marriage had worked out in that I was fucked financially for years and didn't get to see my kids as much as I wanted. (and I had a great atty and "won" the divorce.)
If there is any chance of saving it than do so, but if not start slowly emptying your bank accounts and start stashing the cash in your locker at work.
 
YellowDog said:
I am divorced and happy that I am. However, that being said I wish the marriage had worked out in that I was fucked financially for years and didn't get to see my kids as much as I wanted. (and I had a great atty and "won" the divorce.)
If there is any chance of saving it than do so, but if not start slowly emptying your bank accounts and start stashing the cash in your locker at work.
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Well, from the many divorces friends have been involved with, converting your bank accounts to cash doesn't fly. It isn't about what you have, it's about what you should have. If one can't show just cause for the emptying of the bank accounts then he'd be on the hook for her half anyways.

The post about trivializing the wife's contribution is bang on. The courts recognize rearing the kids as a value added (for lack of a better word) contribution to the marriage/family.

One thing about that I could never figure out is: if her "child rearing etc" is worth say $30,000.00 per year, why isn't that figure added to the couple's annual income thereby reducing the 50% of his income she is "entitled" to? for eg: he makes 50K a year, her job is worth 30K a year, half the difference in their incomes should only be 10K a year but I have yet to see any court see it that way.

I have also yet to see the husband get custody of the kids with visitation to the wife. In all cases I have seen the wife continue whatever life she had before PLUS alimony PLUS child support (which often leaves the husband with little to live on). I could never figure why the wife gets the kids especially if she has no means to support them AND the husband a) wants them and b) can support them.

All I can say is thank GOD I never got married. Of all my friends (20+) who did marry only 2 are still together that I know of and of all the divorces the guy gets royally screwed to the absolute MAX.

The worst I heard about was a couple got married. She made $25K a year, he made $40K. They were together less than a year. HE ended up having to pay HER alimony to the tune of 7K a year to bring HER wage up to HER half of the marriage income (which was $65K divided by 2).

Anyhow, if he's thinking of ending it I'd suggest he start keeping a log of what the wife actually does. This includes housework, rearing of the kids, time spent watching the tube etc etc etc. This can be used as evidence to what her contribution to the marriage is/was. Not that it will amount to anything because

HE WILL GET SCREWED IN THE END.
 
It's a tough situation, and being someone who is going through a separation and divorce right now, I would strongly recommend he make every effort to salvage the marriage before ending it. Sometimes it's easier to just think "the hell with her, I'll be better off on my own", and that may be right, but there's probably a lot he hasn't thought about...

- How often will he get to see the kids? Probably not nearly as often as he would like.
- Although the courts seem to be getting better, the wife generally has all of the leverage. She has less income, she'll probably be the one to continue living in the house (or primary residence), and she has the kids.
- Assuming his yearly income is $50k, he'll be paying out about $750/month to his wife for child support. He'll also be paying spousal support.
- Although she may "owe" him a lot in $$$ due to his being the primary financial contributor to the family, they also look at her ability to pay. Even if she owes him tens of thousands to equalize assets like car(s), house, investments, etc.. if she can't pay, she can't pay. You can't squeeze blood from a stone.
- He should also be prepared to a LOT of stress and emotional termoil. Things are difficult with the kids, things become awkward with friends, and things just all-around suck.

Would I do it again? I honestly don't know. I don't so much regret losing my wife, but do regret losing my family. Hindsight being 20-20, I'm thinking I could have put up with a lot more crap for the sake of being closer to my kids, and to feel like I'm a bigger part of their lives.
 
Hmmm... Thanks for the input!

Wow, I don't even know where to begin. I guess I left out the part where it is in fact, my wifes brother. Hard to sit by and watch, as he's really a pretty good guy, and I think he's getting hosed already. But I'm not too sure about how involved we should get. Nothing creates bad blood faster than getting involved in family matters.. Thanks again for all the advice and experience.

Homer
 
Bother-in-law's options:
1) Tolerate the existing setup, perhaps aided by counselling for him, because that's the only option that's entirely in his control.

2) Improve the existing setup on his own. Trickier, because anything he does will impact on and change her behaviour. What he thinks is an improvement that's entirely in his power may appear threatening, hostile or dismissive to her. Definitely advise professional advice for anyone desperate enough to try to 'fix' a marriage on their own. Fixing himself—and everyone has stuff that needs fixing—is another matter, but he'd better forget doing that because he thinks it'll fix the marriage. That'd be a bonus, he can only do it to be better himself.

3) Fix the marriage both together. Which will only work if she too believes it's a) Broken (perhaps she doesn't) and b) Worth fixing. If either spouse believes and is adamant that it's beyond repair, it is. You cannot force a team into existence. But if both want to renovate their defective relationship, they can. As always with renos, find a pro that both trust.

4) Perhaps she might be convinced the family can be saved even if the marriage itself is dead, but again, if she/he doesn't, it cannot be done by just one. But if he/she does (again w/ wise advice) the couple can quite likely make a family succeed even if the marriage itself ends in divorce. Two houses, two apartments two bedrooms, shared custody, joint custody whatever.

This is the only way that they can come close to all enjoying something like the lifestyle they have now, because it's based on agreeing that nobody wins in court. But again everyone has to see that the best for everyone—that's the family: Mom, Dad and kids—is if the unavoidable loss/pain is shared. That is what families do after all; share their troubles. And both spouses should get professional advice and finish with a proper legal agreement. Which they can then ignore, as long as they make the new arrangements actually work.

PS. Most lawyers instincts run against such concepts (they are hired guns after all) Best to start with counselling.

5) Give up, put his some of his own interests first and go for a divorce. Which, in spite of no fault thinking, he cannot get by just asking. He wants it, he'll have to set forth the proofs of the situation that demonstrate this marriage is over. That does leave her with the 'do nothing' defence of an innocent. And it'll mean every aspect will be contested (expensively) even if not vigourously. This is the lose-lose-lose (how many kids?) option, equivalent to abandoning diplomacy for war or the the bargaining table for a lockout. Whoever 'wins' does so at the risk of making their own kids the children of a pauper (even the most unbalanced settlement leaves something for the payor) the price of successfully getting rid of that partner may be paid for years.

Final Word: It took two to make the marriage. It takes two to keep it alive. It takes two to end it with the least suffering. Anyone who wants to make their own decision when it's over has to prepare to pay up.

Unfair? Where does it say life is fair?
 
There is one other option... he could leave one day and never come back. I met a guy (American) in Cancun who did exactly that. It's not something I would do in that situation... but it is an option.
 
zekestone said:
There is one other option... he could leave one day and never come back. I met a guy (American) in Cancun who did exactly that. It's not something I would do in that situation... but it is an option.
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I think you missed this part.

homer said:
They have 2 kids under age 6 that he dotes over so obviously cares about.
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No I didn't miss that. The American in Mexico had kids too. I guess he figured that if he stayed and got divorced, he wouldn't see his kids anyway AND get screwed financially. By just leaving, no divorce = no lawyers getting rich off his divorce. And they can't nail him for support/alimony if they don't know where he is.

Like I said, it's not something I would do or recommend doing. But it is an option and it has been done before.
 
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