I dont think you are correct but even if you are, what should Israel do in the face if home made and largely inaccurate rockets which have killed peole notwithstanding that they are home made and largely inaccurate.?
How many think gryfin should be kicked off Terb?
- Thread starter Dandy_Dapper_Boy
- Start date
Well, in the only Palestine wide election that I recall, Hamas won easily? I have read that as a result of the last israeli Gaza war, Hamas popularity has risen. So I would hesitate to suggest what is or is not representative for Palestinians. Remember that virtually every palestinian knows someone who has been killed maimed or imprisoned by the Israelis.
I may be off on my numbers, but as I recall, in the last gaza war amost 1500 Gazans were killed, mostly civilians. Apply that to Canada proportionately and you get over 50,000 people dead. I think 13 Israelis were killed, mostly soldiers.
I agree other than the word "imminent".
IDF is entitled to use lethal force to put a stop to rocket attacks on Israeli territory. See article 51 of the UN Charter, for example. They do not have to wait until a few second before the rocket is fired to shoot, they can hunt down and kill the people who are shooting the rockets over a period of weeks or months.
They can also attack the command and control structures of the group authorizing and supporting the rocket attacks, and any other military target associated with that group. In short, so long as Hamas is attacking Israel, Israel is entitled to counter-attack Hamas.
In doing so IDF must try to keep civilian casualties to a minimum, but there is no requirement that they must be kept to zero.
The question is more one of intent than counting numbers: Did you fire that missile only because you were trying to destroy a military installation? Or did you pick that target specifically because you knew there would be a lot of associated civilian casualties? The latter is a crime, the former is not, even if in the former case there are a lot of civilian casualties.
Yes, but voting for Hamas does not necessarily mean they are in favour of terrorism or killing civilians.
First, they voted Hamas into the legislature, they did NOT authorize Hamas exercise executive authority. They gave that authority to Abbas. Hamas subsequently carried out a coup against Abbas and seized executive power illegally.
It is quite possible that Palestinians gave Hamas a legislative voice in the belief that this would result in a more moderate Hamas that did not engage in terrorism.
just want to say someoneisusing my nameto post on somethreads
so all i can do issay leave meout of your war i'm for peaceandtruth
so all i can do issay leave meout of your war i'm for peaceandtruth
I guess you didn't read the part of the Human Rights Watch report that I posted which accused Hamas of crimes for intentionally placing their military infrastructure in and basing their attacks from civilian areas.
Sorry my friend but you have to be several dozen cards short of a full deck. You claim only one or two Israelis have been killed by rockets. You get shown how wrong you are and your only defense is to claim that all those reports are lies. Do you really think people will fall for your (allegedly not anti-Israel) crap?
Actually Hamas lost the popular vote in that election but the Fatah candidates were disorganized and often ran against each other. It is worth noting that that was only for one level of the Palestinian government while Fatah still held the presidency. Then Hamas staged a military takeover of Gaza so the democratically elected claim became immaterial. As for current popularity I have no clue though Hamas is not wanting to participate in scheduled elections. Besides that, Fatah is strong in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza
In terms of the deaths, obviously Hamas has the incentive to inflate the numbers and Israel to keep them low. I doubt anyone could ever know how many were actually innocent civilians. The opposing claims are 455 out of 1166 deaths were civilians (Israeli sources) compared to 1181 civilians out of 1417 (Palestinian sources).
I have called them both laying bastards which they are. My decision to believe neither side is far more neutral then your decision to take the word of Israel as gospel...
yes they can use lethal force against those firing the rockets BUT NOT if there is a high risk of civilain casualties. Yes I believe it is a crime if there are a lot of civilain casualties, minimum is very broad term. You can kill 1 million civilains at that can still be a minumum. Let me ask you, is it ok to kill 10 palestinian civilains to prevent one Israeli civilian death?
You are trying to draw a moral equivalence which is simply not there. It is for just that reason that Hamas hides among the civilian population. it is with the intention that there be civilian casualties which will then assist with their propaganda against Israel. what would you have the Israelis do. just sit and watch the rockets come in to their civilian population centers.
Why not? If there are two ways to attack a military target, each equally effective, and one involves killing fewer civilians, it is incumbent on a military to choose the attack that kills the fewest civilians.
However if there is no way to avoid civilian casualties, if the ONLY way to effectively attack a viable military target involves a high risk of killing civilians, so be it.
It depends on the situation, and my answer will be no different than my answer to "Is it OK to kill 10 Israeli civilians to prevent 1 Palestinian death". What is fair is fair both ways.
What it depends on is whether the target is a viable military target, and whether there was any way to attack it that would have killed fewer people. If it is a viable military target, and there is no way to attack it that would kill fewer civilians, then it is an acceptable attack even if it would kill 10 Israelis in order to defend 1 Palestinian.
The Palestinians are actually safest in Israel during times of peace, because nobody else wants them. They have more less marketed themselfs off the charts for any immigration to other countries.
God presence on earth is the fact that Zionism and the land of Isreal exists. If the Israelites were up rooted from Israel, there would be proof that God doesnt exists. However there is a God, and he is a Zionist, so good luck to you Gryfin. You will need it.
Your sick pandering to Terbites and god knows who else, will come back to smack you in your ugly head in ways you cannot imagine.
Having said that, Israel will be punished only if they continue to give away more land to the Palestinians. If anything, they should take back the West Bank.
God presence on earth is the fact that Zionism and the land of Isreal exists. If the Israelites were up rooted from Israel, there would be proof that God doesnt exists. However there is a God, and he is a Zionist, so good luck to you Gryfin. You will need it.
Your sick pandering to Terbites and god knows who else, will come back to smack you in your ugly head in ways you cannot imagine.
Having said that, Israel will be punished only if they continue to give away more land to the Palestinians. If anything, they should take back the West Bank.
the term "viable military target" is such a broad one it is almost pointless. One car argue the rockets the Palis fire are to tie down the Israeli military and reduce attacks the Palis...using that same logic.
Actually such an argument would betray an absence of logic. please I expect that kind of thing from Gryfin. Although I don't always agree with your posts I have come to expect a higher standard from you.
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If your goal is to tie down the opposing military by killing as many civilians as you possibly can then you are a reprehensible war criminal and you should be brought to justice. Decent people of any culture should turn on you and excoriate you for your moral bankruptcy.
Many guerrilla conflicts have been fought without specifically targeting innocent civilians.
We can have some interesting debates about executions of "collaborators", I think that's a viable gray area, but when you lob bombs and rockets at kindergarten children you have crossed over a clear bright line. I simply don't believe that attacks on children and other innocent bystanders are or should be acceptable in any culture or religion.
