How high is 'too high' when we're talking taxes?
- Thread starter oldjones
- Start date
I like the idea of optimal solutions. Unfortunately, it is unclear that any political system can ever be devised to produce optimal solutions. For example, even in the case of simple majority rule (e.g. a direct democracy) with no interest groups, and a single pure public good, you only get an efficient outcome under very unlikely conditions. I think it is interesting to talk about efficient outcome. In addition, over my lifetime, I think there has been a tendency to greater efficiency. Unfortunately, I think it is an academic exercise.fuji said:
That is an interesting hypothesis. I suspect that it would be hard to really prove either in the theoretical or empirical sense. Still, it is an interesting possibility.fuji said:
fuji's idea might work, if and a big if, if everyone paid or contributed to that welfare fund ie: cpp, social security.. etc, but since the politicos like to give freebees to everbody then thats where shit starts to happen, imagine some of the retirees in the future are not goin to see any social security benefits in the future since some politician in the present said that even people who didn't work a single day in their lives are eligible for benefits??
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WoodPeckr said:ROTFLMAO!!!
Believe Dubya PROVED this an urban myth, to the nth degree, NO?....
That was not a case of less or more government.
That was an example of electing an idiot to run the show.
Who's fault is that? Did you vote?
Just think how bad things could have been if he had applied his intellect to an expanded government.The waste would have been horrendeous
BTW its high time you move on from blaming (again with the blaming) Bush for everything you do not like about your life.
He is gone, the damage is done.
Move on brace yourself for the wasteful spending your new hero will generate.
You will soon be paying a premiumn for the peso as the US $ drops like a rock
If you do not consent to taxation then any level of taxation is theft.
For those who argue that consent is provided through democratic elections, I don't think that you would feel any less robbed if four thugs approached you on the street and democratically voted themselves the contents of your wallet.
If government were supported by donation rather than by taxation then the scope of government would be more agreeable to the donors and the non-donors.
For those who argue that consent is provided through democratic elections, I don't think that you would feel any less robbed if four thugs approached you on the street and democratically voted themselves the contents of your wallet.
If government were supported by donation rather than by taxation then the scope of government would be more agreeable to the donors and the non-donors.
fuji said:
Probably not, but he's wrong. The personnel rate starts at 6% and goes up to 33%. Corporate stars at 10% and goes to 20%.
If someone really insists on on a source, as some have I'll give you on, but you've got to ask nicely.
No make it 3% across the board, eliminate all tax exemptions (only exception would be based on Treaty) and deductions. That is to say 3% of the GDP, Congressional spending, SSI spending, Welfare Spending and all winnings.blackrock13 said:
See where that brings us.
I would agree that Americans get very poor value for the taxes they pay. Crappy educational system and millions with no access to medical care. Cities wracked with violence and crime. The Pentagon is taking way too much of your taxes to invest in arms stockpiles and technology that will destabilize the world and provoke another arms race.kkelso said:
Thanks for the link. Now I know why she wants to become American:asn said:
JAPAN Taxation: The standard national corporate tax rate is 30%. Including local taxes, the effective standard corporate tax rate is 40.9%. The top effective personal income tax rate, including local taxes, is 50%. The consumption tax rate is 5%.
Gyaos Baltar.
The problem in the U.S. is we have amoung the lowest individual tax rates in the world and about lowest in history.
I recall the days it was great to earn more than $52,000 since that qualified for the max tax on earned income of 50% while unearned income taxed up to 70%. And the economy was very strong for much of that period.
Now we went to the other low tax rate extremes with top rate of 35% but most in the 10-15-25% brackets.
U.S. corporate tax rate itself high but that is a distortion due to many deductions and avoiding taxes on foreign source income for multi national corps etc.
The Republicans are using the Canadian Health care system as so terrible and doing ads warning that the U.S. is heading for the horrible Canadian system where some burocrat sides what care is available. Of course this is silly like they have not even read the real proposals they just make this crap up to scare people and keep all the million dollar a year drug company middle management to keep their big salaries.
One study showed that in hospitals there are 7 patients for each nurse, but 20 high paid managers overseeing each nurse. Lots of these positions can be eliminated or replaced by lower paid paper pushers that don't need to earn such high salaries.
But Republicans to everything they can to help their rich contributors even lying about proposed plans etc.
I recall the days it was great to earn more than $52,000 since that qualified for the max tax on earned income of 50% while unearned income taxed up to 70%. And the economy was very strong for much of that period.
Now we went to the other low tax rate extremes with top rate of 35% but most in the 10-15-25% brackets.
U.S. corporate tax rate itself high but that is a distortion due to many deductions and avoiding taxes on foreign source income for multi national corps etc.
The Republicans are using the Canadian Health care system as so terrible and doing ads warning that the U.S. is heading for the horrible Canadian system where some burocrat sides what care is available. Of course this is silly like they have not even read the real proposals they just make this crap up to scare people and keep all the million dollar a year drug company middle management to keep their big salaries.
One study showed that in hospitals there are 7 patients for each nurse, but 20 high paid managers overseeing each nurse. Lots of these positions can be eliminated or replaced by lower paid paper pushers that don't need to earn such high salaries.
But Republicans to everything they can to help their rich contributors even lying about proposed plans etc.
The GREAT esalen massage man himself DAVE IN PHOENIX pops right in the political forum. I never thought that was possible! Oh man, we need you to tag team on some of the Republican supporters here. Fish food, you will be for them! LOL.Dave in Phoenix said:
Gyaos Baltar.
WoodPeckr said:Yepper, Johnny!
All part of the legacy left by doofus Dubya, your cementhead!....
He is not my cement head, I had him figured for a mental midget the first time I watched him speak
Your lot elected him.
However, back to the issue, the new guy Obama appears to have much more on the ball, and is a skilled diplomat, however he is spending like a sailor on leave & expanding govt power.
The waste that will come from this will make George W look financially prudent.
Remember this in two years time when inflation is rampant the peso is on par with the greenback.
You will of course be paying a huge premium for the Canadian dollar (we have oil)
We have not had income tax in Canada for even a hundred years
http://www.duhaime.org/LegalResourc...Article-168/The-Birth-of-Income-Tax-1917.aspx
It was brought in effect in 1917 as a temporary measure to pay for war expenses & we have been paying ever since.
Hey gues what?
That war is over, can we stop paying income taxes now?
http://www.duhaime.org/LegalResourc...Article-168/The-Birth-of-Income-Tax-1917.aspx
It was brought in effect in 1917 as a temporary measure to pay for war expenses & we have been paying ever since.
Hey gues what?
That war is over, can we stop paying income taxes now?
Not sure what your talking about. Most of the "spending" is really an investment in the future. With the economy at risk for a Depression the spending is prudent vs not enough done in the Great Depression and it took the spending of the War to turn around the Depression.JohnLarue said:
Regarding the bank "bailouts" this clearly was an investment that has made huge profits for the Treasury. With the fees, the high interest rate and especially the preferred stock the Government took with warrants based on a very low price.
Now with many banks wanting to repay the issue is how to value the warrants and preferred stock since they have to be redeemed at a big profit before the banks can get rid of the TARP restrictions especially on Executive pay. But other than AIG which is going to be slow to pay back most of the other "bailouts" should result in huge profits to the Treasury.
Likewise investing in the economy is the best way to long-term deal with the deficits. The fastest cure for revenues is corporate profits and more wage which generate tax revenue. The stimulus program has already saved zillions of jobs, police not being layed off in Phoenix, teachers retained and many needed construction projects started. All of this spending is an investment in the economy which is putting people to work and extends for the next few years. There are good signs in the private sector that the worst is over and GDP should turn positive again by the end of 2009 or early 2010. If the Republicans had there way we would have had a very deep deprssion following the same mistakes of the Great Depression with not enough being done.
With all the prudent actions of the Treasury/Fed/Obama most world economist expect the U.S. along with China to lead the world out of the current global recession.
The debt is no issue at this point, last week a record $100+ Billion of Treasury notes was easily sold and oversubscribed by about a 4 to 1 ratio (4 times more buyers than T notes available.)
The way the Fed has injected capital really is not inflationary and once the economy recovers the Fed has a good plan to unwind the positions and avoid inflation pressures.
Obama has a solid plan to reduce the deficit long-term. He was left with a mess with about $1 trillion wasted in the War in Iraq and his tax cuts for the rich which only made the deficit problem worse.
What's clear is Dave in Phoenix seems to have gone to a better business school than you grasshopper!....JohnLarue said:
