Home replacement windows

[rev]

I was at the reno show and decided I should replace home windows. 25 years old and it is time. I know nothing about the process/product.

Got a quote from Andersen ( they had a cute girl at the show) and now looking for others to compare.

Does anyone know a good replacement company and a good brand I should look for?

Thanks for your help as always.

 

[bigshot]

I had my home windows replaced by Vinylbilt Windows in Vaughan. Great windows and no problems...

 

[james t kirk]

Andersen are very excellent quality windows. You will not go wrong with them. They have a dealer on Dundas West who is quite good.The other name in the industry that is even better than Andersen is Loewen.

In my opinion, Loewen is better than Andersen because Loewen are made in Canada (so their prices may now be cheaper than Andersen which are made in the USA). They manufacture in Steinbach Manitoba.

Both Loewen and Andersen windows feature wood core. Loewen uses Douglas fir while Andersen uses Southern Pine. DF is a superior species of wood for strength and cracking. Loewen also features extruded aluminum exteriors and have an incredible range of colours. (Andersen used to have just 3 plus some optional colours) Andersen is all vinyl exterior with a vinyl sash and wood interior trim. Loewen is superior because it is a wood window with extruded aluminum cladding on the exterior. Even the sash is wood in Loewen (with the extruded aluminum exterior). Wood is required for strength. Loewen is all wood on the interior which you can finish however you like. A real dumb dumb test is the weight of the window. You almost need a fork lift to lift a Loewen window they are built that strong.

Andersen has 3 different lines as far as I know, so you need to be aware of just which line they are quoting you. There is a huge difference in both quality and price. Again, Dundas Windows would be better able to advise you on the various lines Andersen has.

Loewen only has 1 line, but they can option them out differently, which adds to the cost.

I've used Loewen, Andersen, Pollard, Ridley, Pella and Geldwyn in my days.

For a house, my number one choice is Loewen, but Andersen is a very close second. Everything else is hugely substandard to Loewen and Andersen. In fact, other than Loewen and Andersen, the rest are pretty much junk.

I will also say that the Loewen dealer in Oakville is not the easiest guy to deal with, BUT, he will stand behind his product. He will honour his warranty.

Lastly, before you place the order, make sure you get them to generate the shop drawings for you. You need to review the shop drawings and specs from top to bottom to make sure you're getting what you need / want. This is hugely important.

If they are going into an existing house, make SURE to specify NO NAILING FLANGE (though with vinyl, you just cut this off)

Also specify Lo E and if you want to add grilles to the windows, etc. (I like the ones that feature grills only on the top quarter of the window (old school looking))

 

[|2 /-\ | /|/]

^^^^ @james t kirk seems like you always provide valuable advice w.r.t. construction practice. Thanks for you opinions they are valuable and I am marking this thread for tracking at a later date. This is something I also need to do.

This is a perfect example why terb is so friken addictive. Its like a big brain with all of us presenting our POVs and opinions and every now and again you get very valuable advice, provided you filter out a lot of the noise. I don't know any other forum that is this well rounded.

Its kinda nice that we can meet some of the hottest, baddest women in the world, and yet can discuss all these other common issues and thoughts we all have at one point or another.

To the OP please keep us updated on the decisions you make and which one you decide to go with. I am sure it will be of a benefit to many.

Thanks guys for sharing this knowledge.

 

[bigshot]

I agree with Kirk. Low E windows are a must and argon gas between the panes is a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. This is the standard and the additional cost is minimal...

 

[trippingwalker]

1) have a budget to narrow down your choices. Wood, fiberglass, vinyl, and aluminum windows are all available at a pretty diverse cost

2) your best bet would be to go with vinyl windows. But please, don't opt for the cheaper "builder quality" windows. Every time you see a new middle-class subdivision pop up, all the windows are the cheapest the builder can get, they just barely meet the standards, usually made from recycled vinyl with impurities (weak vinyl, easier to crack with extreme temperature fluctuations), and with cheaply-made insulated glass units that aren't sealed all that well and are likely to fail in the first 1-3 years. The hardware is often super cheap made in china kind of stuff.

There are a few very excellent "boutique" window manufacturers in and around Toronto that specialize in the replacement window market... so you rip out your 7-year old "builder window" and replace it with a superior vinyl window that will last realistically about 20-25 years. Cost-wise, still competitive if they're a manufacturer. However, still more expensive than the cheapest Window City kind of windows but the gain in terms of VALUE and longevity is huge. Been there, done that!

3) deal direct with a manufacturer! there are SO MANY in the GTA it just seems puzzling that you'd buy a window from someone who bought a window from a company that is very likely open to the public anyway. Most manufacturers of good quality windows are open to the public (of course, there are exceptions) so do your research.

4) Brick to brick! Don't bother with a retrofit installation... if you're going to go all the way with your windows, make sure you'll be ripping everything out right down to the brick opening, including the frame, jamb extensions, even the casing. Just do it all.

5) make sure any quote you get is a free quote

6) go with an established company that's been around for decades. Countless window manufacturers come and go! SERIOUSLY! You'd be surprised how many window companies have gone bankrupt and closed their doors over the years... The worst thing you can do is spend $16,000 on a whole house full of windows then 6 years later you need some replacement parts aaaaaaaaand they're impossible to find. You can't just swap window hardware between different manufacturers....

anyway, i'll end it there. Just a few things I've learned that I think could be helpful!

 

[trippingwalker]

I agree with Kirk. Low E windows are a must and argon gas between the panes is a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. This is the standard and the additional cost is minimal...

I don't know about the Argon gas... it slowly leaks out of the sealed unit no matter what! in a year or two it's literally all gone. The LowE coat is worthwhile. That actually coats the inside of the outer piece of glass and slows the transfer heat/cold through the glass...

Do opt for a vinyl spacer in the insulated glass unit. Standard would be an aluminum spacer, which is ok, but aluminum conducts hot/cold moreso than a vinyl spacer. Vinyl spacers are probably a better investment than the argon gas....

ALSO: triple glazed glass units are a waste. The best line of defense between inside and outside is that 1/2" or so of air space... triple glazing is expensive and really not much better at all if you compare it to a double glazed window with lowE, argon, and a vinyl thermal edge spacer....

 

[shakenbake]

Landmark Systems. They are expensive, but have been tested as being the most energy efficient, according to NRCan laboratory testing when I had bought them, and with a lifetime guarantee.

http://www.landmarkquality.com/

 

[huckfinn]

Another company that has a good product and been around for decades and has great reviews.

http://www.northstarwindows.com/

 

[rev]

Thanks for the info guys! It is appreciated.

This has been a great help and a fantastic place to start.

 

[bigshot]

I certainly agree with the use of vinyl spacers and the comment about triple pains. However, if argon will eventually leak out, that should also result in fogging between the pains. If there is an air leak, fogging will occur. My windows have not fogged in 16 years, so it strikes me that the argon gas is still inside. If there was a leak that allowed the gas to escape then they should fog as all double pained windows will if the spacers leak. This is how a manufacturer explained this to me and it seems to make sense. Am I missing something here?

I did a lot of research before making this decision (I have a great deal of glass in my home) and went to the Home Show to talk with all of the vendors. I tried to ask the same questions to see if there was consensus on what to look for and if one supplier stood out against the rest. It can be a big expense and choosing the right product and installer will provide big benefits to the home owner. Choosing the right installer is just as important as selecting the manufacturer. I saw a home in my neighbourhood that was having the second set of replacement windows installed. Thinking that this was unusual, I stopped to speak with the installer about why this was necessary and he told me that the last installation was so bad that there was no choice but to replace the windows once again. No spray foam was applied around the frame and the windows leaked air big time.

It looks like the OP has received some good advise here. It's not quite as easy as looking in the yellow pages and calling the first number that you see...

I don't know about the Argon gas... it slowly leaks out of the sealed unit no matter what! in a year or two it's literally all gone. The LowE coat is worthwhile. That actually coats the inside of the outer piece of glass and slows the transfer heat/cold through the glass...

Do opt for a vinyl spacer in the insulated glass unit. Standard would be an aluminum spacer, which is ok, but aluminum conducts hot/cold moreso than a vinyl spacer. Vinyl spacers are probably a better investment than the argon gas....

ALSO: triple glazed glass units are a waste. The best line of defense between inside and outside is that 1/2" or so of air space... triple glazing is expensive and really not much better at all if you compare it to a double glazed window with lowE, argon, and a vinyl thermal edge spacer....

 

[trippingwalker]

Landmark Systems. They are expensive, but have been tested as being the most energy efficient, according to NRCan laboratory testing when I had bought them, and with a lifetime guarantee.

http://www.landmarkquality.com/

I'm almost certain Landmark does NOT manufacture. I know for a fact that they, at least in the past, bought some of their windows from a toronto manufacturer who is open to the public and provides installation service as well.

I certainly agree with the use of vinyl spacers and the comment about triple pains. However, if argon will eventually leak out, that should also result in fogging between the pains. If there is an air leak, fogging will occur. My windows have not fogged in 16 years, so it strikes me that the argon gas is still inside. If there was a leak that allowed the gas to escape then they should fog as all double pained windows will if the spacers leak. This is how a manufacturer explained this to me and it seems to make sense. Am I missing something here?

I did a lot of research before making this decision (I have a great deal of glass in my home) and went to the Home Show to talk with all of the vendors. I tried to ask the same questions to see if there was consensus on what to look for and if one supplier stood out against the rest. It can be a big expense and choosing the right product and installer will provide big benefits to the home owner. Choosing the right installer is just as important as selecting the manufacturer. I saw a home in my neighbourhood that was having the second set of replacement windows installed. Thinking that this was unusual, I stopped to speak with the installer about why this was necessary and he told me that the last installation was so bad that there was no choice but to replace the windows once again. No spray foam was applied around the frame and the windows leaked air big time.

It looks like the OP has received some good advise here. It's not quite as easy as looking in the yellow pages and calling the first number that you see...

The desiccant and exterior sealant in an insulated glass unit are constantly expanding and contracting as the temperature changes. When the seal fails, it can be VERY subtle. Subtle enough that you won't necessarily see or notice the condensation forming on the interior of the insulated glass unit but yes the argon will be leaking, immediately. The thing about the condensation is that most often people only notice it in the winter. Winter time is also when people have their windows closed more often than not (reduced air circulation in the home) and activities like cooking, showering, etc produce quite a bit of humidity (more than you might think!) So, naturally, when that warm and humid air finds its way inside the sealed unit and makes contact with the very cold outside air, naturally, condensation.

In other words, depending on the room the window is in, humidity levels, sun exposure, wind exposure, climate, the installation itself, etc etc your sealed unit may fail in the first 5 years or it may last 30+ years (seriously!)
If your insulated glass unit fails, it COULD take several years before enough condensation can actually form for you to notice it.

So, I don't mean to discredit you! You're right... if it's an air-tight seal, then, well, it should be air tight. HOWEVER, it's not that simple and there are actually a lot of other factors that contribute to the condensation forming inside a sealed unit. It can't only be attributed to the loss of argon... you can have windows with failed seals that remarkable don't actually have the condensation problem.

 

[bigshot]

I'm almost certain Landmark does NOT manufacture. I know for a fact that they, at least in the past, bought some of their windows from a toronto manufacturer who is open to the public and provides installation service as well.
The desiccant and exterior sealant in an insulated glass unit are constantly expanding and contracting as the temperature changes. When the seal fails, it can be VERY subtle. Subtle enough that you won't necessarily see or notice the condensation forming on the interior of the insulated glass unit but yes the argon will be leaking, immediately. The thing about the condensation is that most often people only notice it in the winter. Winter time is also when people have their windows closed more often than not (reduced air circulation in the home) and activities like cooking, showering, etc produce quite a bit of humidity (more than you might think!) So, naturally, when that warm and humid air finds its way inside the sealed unit and makes contact with the very cold outside air, naturally, condensation.

In other words, depending on the room the window is in, humidity levels, sun exposure, wind exposure, climate, the installation itself, etc etc your sealed unit may fail in the first 5 years or it may last 30+ years (seriously!)
If your insulated glass unit fails, it COULD take several years before enough condensation can actually form for you to notice it.

So, I don't mean to discredit you! You're right... if it's an air-tight seal, then, well, it should be air tight. HOWEVER, it's not that simple and there are actually a lot of other factors that contribute to the condensation forming inside a sealed unit. It can't only be attributed to the loss of argon... you can have windows with failed seals that remarkable don't actually have the condensation problem.

Interesting explanation. Just to clarify, you're saying that my 16 year old windows have likely lost the argon gas, despite the fact that there is no sign whatsoever of fogging between the panes?

 

[Lady fisher]

Windows

Andersen are very excellent quality windows. You will not go wrong with them. They have a dealer on Dundas West who is quite good.The other name in the industry that is even better than Andersen is Loewen.

In my opinion, Loewen is better than Andersen because Loewen are made in Canada (so their prices may now be cheaper than Andersen which are made in the USA). They manufacture in Steinbach Manitoba.

Both Loewen and Andersen windows feature wood core. Loewen uses Douglas fir while Andersen uses Southern Pine. DF is a superior species of wood for strength and cracking. Loewen also features extruded aluminum exteriors and have an incredible range of colours. (Andersen used to have just 3 plus some optional colours) Andersen is all vinyl exterior with a vinyl sash and wood interior trim. Loewen is superior because it is a wood window with extruded aluminum cladding on the exterior. Even the sash is wood in Loewen (with the extruded aluminum exterior). Wood is required for strength. Loewen is all wood on the interior which you can finish however you like. A real dumb dumb test is the weight of the window. You almost need a fork lift to lift a Loewen window they are built that strong.

Andersen has 3 different lines as far as I know, so you need to be aware of just which line they are quoting you. There is a huge difference in both quality and price. Again, Dundas Windows would be better able to advise you on the various lines Andersen has.

Loewen only has 1 line, but they can option them out differently, which adds to the cost.

I've used Loewen, Andersen, Pollard, Ridley, Pella and Geldwyn in my days.

For a house, my number one choice is Loewen, but Andersen is a very close second. Everything else is hugely substandard to Loewen and Andersen. In fact, other than Loewen and Andersen, the rest are pretty much junk.

I will also say that the Loewen dealer in Oakville is not the easiest guy to deal with, BUT, he will stand behind his product. He will honour his warranty.

Lastly, before you place the order, make sure you get them to generate the shop drawings for you. You need to review the shop drawings and specs from top to bottom to make sure you're getting what you need / want. This is hugely important.

If they are going into an existing house, make SURE to specify NO NAILING FLANGE (though with vinyl, you just cut this off)

Also specify Lo E and if you want to add grilles to the windows, etc. (I like the ones that feature grills only on the top quarter of the window (old school looking))

I personally have Jeld-Wen. Windows. But with most good window companies there are different grades

Of windows builders grade and or custom grade and type of glass grades and double glazed etc

Different finishes wood or vinyl windows

I personally like my windows DOUBLE HUNG. Pardon the pun lol

 

[shakenbake]

I'm almost certain Landmark does NOT manufacture. I know for a fact that they, at least in the past, bought some of their windows from a toronto manufacturer who is open to the public and provides installation service as well.

Really? Who told you this? And, who is the manufacturer?

http://www.landmarkquality.com/windows/our-manufacturing-process

I also know a few competitors/manufacturers, toured their manufacturing facilities, and they attested to the fact that my Landmark windows were made by Landmark. Landmark also fills in the spaces in the moulded structures with an insulating material, making them more energy efficient, a process that they stated that they had pioneered.

I have gone 7 years without any failure of any of my windows from Landmark. Both the quality AND the installation have been exceptional. The builder had used shitty windows that all had condensation between the glazings within a year of my taking possession of my new home, and, when Landmark replaced the old windows, we found that there was very little or no sealant between the windows and the wall structures when the original windows had been installed.

They are also listed as window manufacturers by NRCan.

http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/products/energystar/participants/manufacturers/13512#l

There are many good and reputable window manufacturers in Canada, and Landmark is one of them.

 

[dirkd101]

JTK is right about his windows. There was another thread about this same thing and I used that as my resource. Unfortunately those windows were way over my budget, as I was doing all of them and a patio door. I opted for Vinylbilt, their top product and am very pleased with the results.

 

[james t kirk]

For quality and performance, the only type of window worth buying is the ones that feature a wood core, i.e. the wood is the structure of the window and they get capped (only) with aluminum or vinyl.

End of story.

Solid vinyl windows are budgetary choice windows. It's like comparing an Audi S6 to a Chevy Cruz. They both will get you A to B, but that's where the similarity ends. I'm not a big fan of vinyl windows (except for a garage or a shed maybe). They just don't perform. But hey, this is my opinion.

As far as the type of window to buy, i.e. Double Hung vs. Single Hung, vs. Casement vs slider, vs awning.......

I personally also really like double hung windows. They just look "right" on a house. And also, being that I'm a city boy and not a suburb boy, double hung are more city than the others.

That said, casement windows are THEE best choice for practicality and energy efficiency. (Casements open with a crank like a door in order to vent.) The advantage of casements is that the seals don't get burned up by friction of opening and closing over time like double / single / sliders do. They retain their air tightness.

I would never bother with single hung, or sliders, especially the really cheap sliders. Worst windows in the world.

There are some times you have no choice but to use a slider (like if your house butts up against a driveway) and you can't have a window sticking out into the driveway. But for the most part, avoid sliders.

Also, casement windows cost more than double hung windows due to the cranks and hinges required.

There used to be a guy over in the junction, may have been Osler Avenue who manufactured those cheap ass aluminum jobs that you see all over Toronto. You see them everywhere because they are so fucking cheap. Just a large picture window with a sider vent in the lower quarter of the window. You'd need to slide 2 panes of glass to open the vent. ABSOLUTE FUCKING JUNK.

Worst fucking windows in the world.

 

[shakenbake]

jtk, you are the Man!

 

[trippingwalker]

Really? Who told you this? And, who is the manufacturer?

http://www.landmarkquality.com/windows/our-manufacturing-process

I also know a few competitors/manufacturers, toured their manufacturing facilities, and they attested to the fact that my Landmark windows were made by Landmark. Landmark also fills in the spaces in the moulded structures with an insulating material, making them more energy efficient, a process that they stated that they had pioneered.

I have gone 7 years without any failure of any of my windows from Landmark. Both the quality AND the installation have been exceptional. The builder had used shitty windows that all had condensation between the glazings within a year of my taking possession of my new home, and, when Landmark replaced the old windows, we found that there was very little or no sealant between the windows and the wall structures when the original windows had been installed.

They are also listed as window manufacturers by NRCan.

http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/products/energystar/participants/manufacturers/13512#l

There are many good and reputable window manufacturers in Canada, and Landmark is one of them.

I see... perhaps then they were manufacturing their own vinyl windows and purchasing aluminum windows or something like that.

 

[plyrs99]

Just looking into replacing my front bow window and entry door, and getting prices from several companies. I am definitely going with the wood frame capped with vinyl. Just so hard to choose, but I think I will go with the triple-glazed windows (free upgrade option). Looking at Brock Windows and Lifestyle Windows mainly. Anyone have experience (good or bad) with these companies? Have checked their reviews online, and they both get fairly good reviews, and have also asked around my neighbourhood where I know they have both done work, and both have received good reviews.