Holmes on Homes - Opinions on the show

[james t kirk]

Based on another thread where Holmes on Homes was mentioned, I thought rather than derail that thread to start another one on Holmes.

I am curious to know what people think of Holmes on Homes. There are probably more than a few people on this board either directly in, or associated with the Trades.

Personally, I am a fan of Holmes on Homes. I like his work ethic. I like the fact that he harps on doing things that exceed "the code" rather than just meet "the code" (The Code being the Ontario Building Code.)

I also like the fact that he is Canadian and never hides that fact for his show. He seems like a right on kind of guy.

However, he and the show sometimes make me wonder a bit.

90% of what Holmes claims is bang on. I think he definitely knows what he's doing and he actually is doing a lot of the work himself unlike just about every other fool out there in the home reno show world - Bob Villa as a screaming example (now there's a complete moron).

My one criticism of Holmes is that he gets a little preachy about getting permits. I believe very strongly that if one is building an addition, one needs a permit, however, I am not so convinced that you need a permit to build a new kitchen.

My other criticism of Holmes is that on some of his shows, the people truly deserve what they got, or Holmes goes way beyond what the original contractor was hired to do.

For example, there was one show that a lady and her daughter had had a fire in their East York house and the insurance company had sent in a crew to fix the joint. Now the work that the original contractor had done was definitely substandard, however, Holmes takes it upon himself to gut the ENTIRE HOUSE. The original contractor was only hired to fix the fire damage, which he did. In the episode, Holmes discovers a long abandoned oil tank in the back yard and makes a huge production out of it (which it is I grant you.) HOWEVER, the original home owner had lived there forever and had converted from oil to gas way back when and he had left the oil tank in place. That's his (the original owner's) fault. They don't mention that in the show and they try to make it seem like it was the current contractor's fault, which it was not. I'd bet that way back when when the owner's husband wanted to convert to gas that he was told how much it was to remove the buried oil tank; he had a shit fit and told the guy to leave it there and abandon it in place. Also, the entire yard was a pig's sty - how is that the responsibility of the fire contractor? Also, the main sanitary stack had collapsed beneath the basement floor (typical in older homes). How is that the fire contractor's responsiblity?

There have been other episodes like this as well.

But as a whole, I do like the show, my only gripe about that would be that there no longer seems to be any "new episodes" I just seem to catch the repeats all the time.

Curious to know the peanut gallery's opinion?

 

[Keebler Elf]

For example, there was one show that a lady and her daughter had had a fire in their East York house and the insurance company had sent in a crew to fix the joint...

You left out the important fact that their husband/father had also died and, IIRC, there was some other tragedy as well. So Holmes took it upon himself to help them out by going above and beyond the call of duty. It wasn't just a fire.

I like this show a lot. It's rare these days to find someone who takes pride in what they do. And I welcome his lobbying efforts to change the building codes and stiffen the penalties for contractors who rip people off.

If I have any criticism for Holmes, it's that he doesn't convey what it's actually going to cost to "do it right the first time." If people could afford to pay the true costs, they might not hire such crappy contractors. But for the most part, people can't afford to "do it right" so they end up getting what they paid for. All that "going above Code" costs money. Money the customer might not be able to afford.

That being said, if the Code says you need a permit, you should get a permit. There's a reason it's needed. Besides, it's a check on the quality of the work. If a contractor doesn't want to get a permit, that's a huge red flag that should be going up...

 

[Sasha Jones]

I watched the episode you spoke about yesterday and I never really got the impression that he was trying to lay blame on the old contractor for the oil tank.
I like Mike, he gets the job done right, he doesn't cut corners and he doesn't even take a chance where there is even a suspicion that $hitty work may lie underneath.
Having said that, I do think he is a little full of himself sometimes, but if he gets the job done properly who cares, it is not like he is a total asshole by any means..... unless you happen to be the $hitty contractor he is fixing up after!

Now the guys on Real Renos..... those guys are funny.

 

[james t kirk]

You left out the important fact that their husband/father had also died and, IIRC, there was some other tragedy as well. So Holmes took it upon himself to help them out by going above and beyond the call of duty. It wasn't just a fire.

I like this show a lot. It's rare these days to find someone who takes pride in what they do. And I welcome his lobbying efforts to change the building codes and stiffen the penalties for contractors who rip people off.

If I have any criticism for Holmes, it's that he doesn't convey what it's actually going to cost to "do it right the first time." If people could afford to pay the true costs, they might not hire such crappy contractors. But for the most part, people can't afford to "do it right" so they end up getting what they paid for. All that "going above Code" costs money. Money the customer might not be able to afford.

That being said, if the Code says you need a permit, you should get a permit. There's a reason it's needed. Besides, it's a check on the quality of the work. If a contractor doesn't want to get a permit, that's a huge red flag that should be going up...

Yes, the husband / father of the owners did die. But he didn't die in the fire if I recall, he died about a year or so BEFORE the fire. While it was nice of Mike to totally gut and renovate the entire house, including leveling the floor, there is no way that the fact that the insurance company's contractor didn't do such work should somehow be implied as a failure on his (the insurance company's contractor's) part.

That house was a disaster BEFORE the fire. The buried oil tank, the back yard full of crap, the old garage that was just 2 brick walls teetering in the breeze, the broken plumbing, the broken drains, the knob and tube, the list is endlass.

I guess I might be getting hung up on the pretext of the show that Holmes comes in and fixes up other contractor's shit workmanship rather than Holmes comes in and builds you a new house.

As to the permit, it's actually the homeowner's responsibility to get the permit, not the Contractor's, unless of course that aspect of the job is shifted onto the Contractor.

If I could give any homeowner any advice thinking about doing a major renovation, it would be to hire an Architect, or a Structural Engineer to do you up a full set of plans and specs to be used for both a building permit, and as a contract with a Contractor. In this way, there is a definite scope of work for Contractors to bid on in an organised fashion.

Too many people think that if they need an addition on their house, they call up a few contractors and simply tell them that "I want you to build me a new addition"

The proper course of action would be to call up an Engineer (personally, I think they do a far better job of preparing drawings and specs) or an Architect to design everything properly for you. Then, you as the owner set about getting the Building Permit, or defer to the designer, then, once the permit is in place, the Contractor is hired.

 

[james t kirk]

However these guys miss a lot of stuff and yes its always better to go beyond code as it will usually stand up to the test of wear and tear much better.

I've only watched holmes on 3 or 4 occassions he does preach too much.

Yes, some building inspectors miss a lot.

I have also seen Building Permits issued by the City of Toronto on drawings that weren't worth the paper they were drawn on. Completely lacking details as to HOW the building is supposed to be built.

Typically just room layouts and elevations, which isn't sufficient enough to build anything properly.

 

[mmouse]

Just curious, who pays for the all the stuff Holmes does? The show's producers or the homeowners?

 

[james t kirk]

Just curious, who pays for the all the stuff Holmes does? The show's producers or the homeowners?

The Homeowners, but the producers try to do it as inexpensively as possible.

 

[tboy]

Just curious, who pays for the all the stuff Holmes does? The show's producers or the homeowners?

This is from a contractor that works with Holmes: The homeowners put up a dollar amount that they can afford (often nothing) and the sponsers/contractors pay the rest.

As for Holmes, I am with him 100% for doing it right the first time but as stated above, 99.9% of homeowners do NOT want to pay the price to do it right the first time. Typically they want to pay half to 1/3 of the actual cost so by doing it this way, they either get half to 1/3 the amount of work, or 1/2 - 1/3 the quality.

For eg: the cleaning crew they have go in after he's done. That service alone can run as high as $2000.00 what homeowner wants to pay THAT? And how about the decorators that come in with all the nicknacks etc?

Another little insider info on Holmes: Know why he's got a TV show and not his own business? When he was a contactor himself his business was dying...no one could afford to do it his way or the highway. But then again, his pricing is out to fucking lunch (to put it mildly). For eg: on another episode he stated "look at this, 4 hours to drywall a house, that's what I like..." Not ONCE did he mention the fact that that 4 hours didn't include: taping, mudding, sanding, corner beads, nothing but attaching the sheets to the walls and ceilings. Any homeowner that saw that is now thinking every drywaller is a ripoff artist.....I found out from someone who worked on that episode that he did in fact state that it wasn't complete, but they edited it out.....(so it's not entirely Holmes' fault).

Hey it is easy to be the hero when it doesn't cost anyone a penny, but try it in the real world, doesn't work that way...

As for Vila, he got fired from This Old House because he was taking Kickbacks from the homeowners and suppliers by articficially inflating the cost of the reno then pocketing the difference.....

 

[rick dickulous]

The Homeowners, but the producers try to do it as inexpensively as possible.

That's not what I read. The production has a budget of up to $100,000 per home that they spend on the homeowner. This is still way cheaper than doing a show with famous actors.

My problem with Holmes is not just that he preaches on and on about doing things the right way, but that his jobs have no art, design or style to them. That's actually written in the show's "bible", the document that sets out what each episode should be like. They do this to avoid any controversy about how the final product looks.

But I'm an artistic designer/builder, so the "no art" component is antithetical to the way I work. What I see is a posturing macho going on and on about doing it right, while making the plainest and most boring stuff possible. Good for him though, he's rich and I'm poor.

 

[LadyRachel]

I like him and I would really like to put him on a leash.

 

[thompo69]

That's not what I read. The production has a budget of up to $100,000 per home that they spend on the homeowner. This is still way cheaper than doing a show with famous actors.

Here's what his site says:

Q: Who pays for the renovations on Holmes on Homes™?
A: Holmes on Homes™ offers discounts depending on the scope of the job, which are passed onto the homeowner. As HOH is a TV show, we have money to cover Mike's time and his crew, and we pass these savings onto the homeowner. Any other costs are paid for by the homeowner.

 

[Sasha Jones]

............. 99.9% of homeowners do NOT want to pay the price to do it right the first time. Typically they want to pay half to 1/3 of the actual cost so by doing it this way, they either get half to 1/3 the amount of work, or 1/2 - 1/3 the quality. ................

I don't think many would dispute that fact, the problem is that most contractors will give you the price you want to hear and then promise (or at least imply) that the work will be done to higher standards.
Why can't they just say, ok lady if that is all you have to spend we are gonna have to cut corners here and there and instead of these $4 tiles you are gonna have to take the 50cent ones.
You have to admit that the majority of homeowners don't have a clue when it comes to hiring a reputable contractor or doing the work either so even though it isn't right most of these guys get away with ripping the homeowners off because they just don't know any better.

I like him and I would really like to put him on a leash.

Bwahhh ha ha ha ha, now THAT would be cute

 

[tongeman59]

Been There

I was a contractor on the show for some of the early episodes.
Mike is a genuine kind of guy and good hearted. As a contractor My time was donated but the show picked up the cost of the material.
The shows are getting reppitisious now because you can only do so many kitchens and basements.
Give him kudos though...he's now a rich man.

 

[Berlin]

You have to admit that the majority of homeowners don't have a clue when it comes to hiring a reputable contractor or doing the work either so even though it isn't right most of these guys get away with ripping the homeowners off because they just don't know any better.

Word.

If only we have some sort of HI contractors review boards since the good old word of mouth thingy is not that reliable at all. My advice is, never get rushed into any decision, you get what you pay for most and most of the time so don't go cheapy on your house.

 

[mjd]

I like the Holmes shows. They are getting little out of line of the average person now.
The early episodes were half hr shows. They stuck to the basic jobs not the exotic stuff that is being showed now .Like the 2 part hr episodes etc .
Anybody here watch the Real Renos shows for the additions etc done on them?

 

[tboy]

Sasha, I typically would agree with you but where there is a difference (being in the industry myself and quoting/doing countless projects) lies is the fact that contractors don't give you a price you want to hear, they give you the price to do the job right, then bitch and moan about the price so much that you do come back with a cheaper price, with less work done, highlight this fact to them, assure them what you DO in fact do will be done right, but then they bitch and moan and hold back funds because you didn't do everything they wanted.

Doesn't matter that they agreed to less work to suit their budget, doesn't matter that they asked you to cut corners, doesn't matter that they agreed to do part of the work (which rarely do they do), at the end of the day they want what they want at the higher price, for the final agreed price.

I can't tell you the number of times I've had someone say to me: how much to do this? $1800.00 ok, what can you do for $400.00? This, ok, do that then....and when you're done? HEY that's not what I wanted...but hey, that's what you agreed to???

Here's a good idea when you're done, standing hat in hand, waiting for the remainder of your money (while they are going over evey inch of the project even areas you weren't involved with):
Hey, you didn't fix this?
I told you at the beginning that it wasn't included in the price, see? there's your initials....
Well, it looks dumb now, why didn't you fix it?
Grrrrr cause you didn't want it fixed at the price we agreed on
You should have fixed it, how much now to fix it?
Well, to undo everything I did add 20% to the first estimate.

What? you're crazy.....

And I end up eating the final payment.....

And another good one is when they agree to keep costs down by supplying the material. You go over the job, tell them exactly what you need, and on what day so they can make sure they have it. They NEVER do....then they get the wrong stuff....and never by enough, and then ask YOU to go get it....then complain because my time to go purchase it is on the final invoice as well as the cost of the added material.

A great one is when you're cutting baseboard, the offcuts are going into the garbage bag...they say: Hey can't you use that 2" piece somewhere? Ummm no....why don't you glue all the 3" pieces together? You can use that next to the closet...You've GOT to be fucking kidding me?

 

[tongeman59]

Right On

Right on the mark tboy...Send them off to Home Depot and those clowns will sell them anything.
I don't price fixtures that way I don't have to run around trying to match them up. Try getting your money out of some clown that just does not want to pay....knee cap the prick.
I have a better trick i use though....but if i told you....I'd have to kill you!!!

 

[hunter001]

I also like the fact that he is Canadian and never hides that fact for his show.

He is on a Canadian network so there is no reason to hide he is a homegrown Newfie. I think he has been picked up by the Discovery station so it will be interesting if his image as a Canadian remains.

My one criticism of Holmes is that he gets a little preachy about getting permits. I believe very strongly that if one is building an addition, one needs a permit, however, I am not so convinced that you need a permit to build a new kitchen.

He mentions in a couple of installments that if your doing a renovation and your not touching structure, electrical, or plumbing you don't need a permit. He doesn't bother to keep repeating himself. In the end if you know nothing about what you contractor is doing having a permit and having an inspection seems like a good idea (based on what I have seen happen on the show)

My other criticism of Holmes is that on some of his shows, the people truly deserve what they got, or Holmes goes way beyond what the original contractor was hired to do.

They go beyond for sure. If the just did the minimum I don't think as many people would watch.

For example, there was one show that a lady and her daughter had had a fire in their East York house and the insurance company had sent in a crew to fix the joint. Now the work that the original contractor had done was definitely substandard, however, Holmes takes it upon himself to gut the ENTIRE HOUSE.

The whole house was contaminated with the smell of smoke and raccoon urine. The whole place apparently reeked and there were some structural issues. Did he need to gut the whole place? Probably not but it is a television production and they kept saying that they were going above and beyond for the people considering the number of problems they had.

In the episode, Holmes discovers a long abandoned oil tank in the back yard and makes a huge production out of it (which it is I grant you.) HOWEVER, the original home owner had lived there forever and had converted from oil to gas way back when and he had left the oil tank in place. That's his (the original owner's) fault. They don't mention that in the show and they try to make it seem like it was the current contractor's fault, which it was not.

Actually it is said in the episode that they were told by the contractor that did the conversion from oil to gas that it was ok to leave the tank in the ground. The just makes the people stupid but had nothing to do with the current contractor.
[/QUOTE]

Also, the entire yard was a pig's sty - how is that the responsibility of the fire contractor? Also, the main sanitary stack had collapsed beneath the basement floor (typical in older homes). How is that the fire contractor's responsibility?

Again they said it wasn't but they wanted to do something special for the family. he said he just wanted to make it right for the people it had nothing to do with the fire contractor.

But as a whole, I do like the show, my only gripe about that would be that there no longer seems to be any "new episodes" I just seem to catch the repeats all the time.

I believe the show has been bought out and it will be interesting to see if they try to make it in the next American Chopper show.

If you watch Holmes on Homes for sure you have to be able to watch the show and determine for yourself what they are adding to fix the problem and what he is doing for the home owners for allowing their house to be featured on television. In the end everyone win. Mike get great examples of how not to do a job and people get their house fixed.

 

[pritty_kitten]

i like holmes on homes. i watch the show all the time and learned a few things. i recently ripped out all ugly red carpet and underpadding in my condo all on my own. i know thats not that big of a deal to some of you, but it was a awesome experience to do something by my self. i learned stuff like that from his show and others on HGTV (my favorite channel). Over all, hes a good guy. kind of hot in a lumber jack kind f way. he may preach and repeat himself over and over, but your average joe shmo my not know what to look like in a contractor so the message is pretty relavant. ive probably seen most of the episodes and he seems like a good guy who is a great contractor.

 

[FatOne]

So are all contractors really crooks?

One sure gets that impression.

I was reading this one book where the person talked about her faverate contracter. Why he was so good? When caught trying to sub in inferior goods, he fessed up. He was found a few weeks either beaten up or murdered, I don't recall which. And this is the best? The same author also says that the only way a contractor can survive is to cut corners as much as possible, as mentioned above, most people are unwilling to pay enough to have it done right, but they gotta have their 5000 sq feet.

So how bad is it percentage wise.