Highway Driving

[shakenbake]

You can do it yourself. If someone does something bad enough to drive you to it, you can attend a police station, provide a written account of what happened, and if you're able to identify the driver and be prepared to testify in court, charges will be brought against the driver.

I know this from a situation where someone almost ran me over in a cross walk, but because I couldn't identify the driver, the cops could only send a letter to the owner of the vehicle.

Been there, done that, and I can tell you that it ain't worth it. Better if a cop catches them in the act, they stand nearly zero chance of getting out of it. That is the way the justice system works in this 'fine' province.

 

[Moraff]

I thought this law was changed. I was stopped on the 401 in the 60s and thought it was for passing on the right but the cop told me that was not illegal. ?????

Correct, in some cases it is legal to pass on the right. Whether or not it is a smart thing to do depends on the circumstances.

150. (1) The driver of a motor vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only where the movement can be made in safety and,

(a) the vehicle overtaken is making or about to make a left turn or its driver has signalled his or her intention to make a left turn;

(b) is made on a highway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles in each direction; or

(c) is made on a highway designated for the use of one-way traffic only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 150 (1).

 

[Moraff]

Also, those already on the hiighway are supposed to make room for those trying to enter, NOT to deliberately speed up beyond the traffic speed, and to pace themselves to cut off the driver tryng to enter. This has happend way too many times to me, and it is dangerous of the shitheads to do this. Where is a cop to charge them with careless driving and six points? I woudl attend court as a witness!

Far as I know there is no legal requirement for drivers on the highway to make room for merging drivers. It's up to the driver merging to complete their merge in a safe manner.

It certainly is a nice courtesy to move over a lane or adjust speed to make room when the circumstances are favourable, but it is not a requirement.

As for those who deliberately change their speed to get in the way, well they're just assholes.

 

[Moraff]

You can do it yourself. If someone does something bad enough to drive you to it, you can attend a police station, provide a written account of what happened, and if you're able to identify the driver and be prepared to testify in court, charges will be brought against the driver.

I know this from a situation where someone almost ran me over in a cross walk, but because I couldn't identify the driver, the cops could only send a letter to the owner of the vehicle.

Well, unless you had witnesses all it becomes is a "you said" "they said" deal. I can't see the cops charging someone based on hearsay. I have heard of the sending a letter/stopping by for a visit thing however.

 

[tboy]

Far as I know there is no legal requirement for drivers on the highway to make room for merging drivers. It's up to the driver merging to complete their merge in a safe manner.

It certainly is a nice courtesy to move over a lane or adjust speed to make room when the circumstances are favourable, but it is not a requirement.

As for those who deliberately change their speed to get in the way, well they're just assholes.

Well, according to the new driver handbook anyone driving in the collector lane "should" move over and make room for merging drivers. The operative word is "should". The problem with this is slower drivers are supposed to be in the slow lane, and if they move into the passing lanes they just slow down those lanes. And as we all know, slower drivers once out of the slow lane NEVER move back over......

 

[pussylicker]

You can do it yourself. If someone does something bad enough to drive you to it, you can attend a police station, provide a written account of what happened, and if you're able to identify the driver and be prepared to testify in court, charges will be brought against the driver.

I know this from a situation where someone almost ran me over in a cross walk, but because I couldn't identify the driver, the cops could only send a letter to the owner of the vehicle.

Funny you should mention that, because people always make mistakes in descriptions.

I was with a buddy, and he got stopped by the OPP over a "victim" giving a wrong plate number. Turned out they confused a Blazer for a Buick Regal, but the plate number was close.

I got stopped for a hit and run in Barrie, but the Barrie Municipal cop from the "accident scene" doing the investigation looked foolish when he called in my plates on my Mustang, and the dispatch said they were looking for a Camaro.

I had the OPP knock on my door over a hit and run in Kitchener parking lot, and I laughed in their face when they couldn't find any damage to my vehicle, which the "victim" said had obvious damage.

 

[MuffDiver]

Then we have those in the asshole category, who believe they are god's gift to the planet and deserve to get to their destination faster than anyone else.

Which seems to be a rapidly growing category!

 

[tboy]

As usual, this kind of thread brings 2 kind of drivers out of the woodwork.

First we have level headed folks who drive with respect for safety and road manners. But they are annoyed by asshole drivers.

Then we have those in the asshole category, who believe they are god's gift to the planet and deserve to get to their destination faster than anyone else.

See, I agree with you on the surface, but if you think about it there are two sides to the story. The asshole driver (IYO) is anyone travelling faster than you but to him, the asshole driver is the one travelling at, or under the speed limit and not moving over. See? It is all about perception.

The problem is, by law, slower drivers must drive in the right lane(s) even on surface routes. The law does not state "up to the speed limit". If someone wants to drive a little faster and 110 - 115 on the highway is acceptable by the OPP, then the "level headed folks" are in the wrong if they don't drive on the right.

As stated ad naseum, if you want to drive at or below the posted speed limit, fine. Just don't do it to annoy other drivers, or impede the flow of traffic. If everyone on the highway is travelling above 100, even in the slow lane, then either keep up with the flow (because if you don't that's a ticketable offence) or don't travel on the highway.

Too many times you see (mostly older folks) travelling 80 kph on the highway and everyone is trying to get past them and they have effectively created a rolling road block. This is safe? NOT. Another fine example of this is trucks in the slow lane. Then you get one of these safe and level headed drivers doing the speed limit or less in the second lane. Now you've got TWO out of three lanes effectively blocked. Again, this is safe?

A perfect example of this: I used to travel the gardiner/QEW route westbound in the morning. One day I got on only to find that traffic was moving at about 60 kph, all the way from the dvp....eventually I was able to work my way up through traffic and know what I found? A huge truck in the right lane with a police escort hauling some big piece of machinery and right next to it, a slow poke doing the same 75 kph because he didn't want to pass a cop. Well, traffic was backed up for miles because of this asshat and another 200 vehicles are all crammed into one lane trying to get around him. This is a perfect example of why slower ISN'T safer.

I think this is only going to get worse with the increased speed limits. Now people will legally be travelling at 120 and the slow pokes at 80 will just create that much more of a hazard.

 

[shakenbake]

Well, according to the new driver handbook anyone driving in the collector lane "should" move over and make room for merging drivers. The operative word is "should". The problem with this is slower drivers are supposed to be in the slow lane, and if they move into the passing lanes they just slow down those lanes. And as we all know, slower drivers once out of the slow lane NEVER move back over......

Failure to share the road is a very serious offense under the Highway Traffic Act. It has been for as far back as I can remember. This IS a legal requirement to make room for merging traffic under the HTA. Careless Driving covers this, and is a six demerit point offense.

 

[shakenbake]

Far as I know there is no legal requirement for drivers on the highway to make room for merging drivers. It's up to the driver merging to complete their merge in a safe manner.

It certainly is a nice courtesy to move over a lane or adjust speed to make room when the circumstances are favourable, but it is not a requirement.

As for those who deliberately change their speed to get in the way, well they're just assholes.

It is NOT a case of 'should'. See my reply about Careless driving. Neither drivers nor some police constables are aware of this very legal requirement under the Highway Traffic Act.

shakenbake

 

[mmouse]

The asshole driver (IYO) is anyone travelling faster than you but to him, the asshole driver is the one travelling at, or under the speed limit and not moving over. See? It is all about perception.

It's straightforward. A driver that thinks his presence on the road is more important than anyone else is an asshole. They may be traveling slower than the flow if they are an eccentric asshole (or distracted asshole), but for the traditional asshole it will be faster.

 

[tboy]

Sorry SB, you're wrong. The vehicles currently travelling on any highway or surface road have the right of way. No where in any hand book, or in the HTA does it state that merging traffic ANYWHERE has the right of way.

The handbook specifically states "should" not "must".....

Go to the previous traffic thread, there you will find the link to the section in the MTO handbook where it states this.

As for your careless driving reference, dude, what rule book did YOU read? Sorry but to even insinuate that merging traffic has the right of way over vehicles already travelling on a highway is ludicrous (and I'm not talking about the rapper).

Next thing you will be telling us is that drivers making turns from side streets have the right of way over vehicles already travelling on the main thoroughfare.....

 

[shakenbake]

Sorry SB, you're wrong. The vehicles currently travelling on any highway or surface road have the right of way. No where in any hand book, or in the HTA does it state that merging traffic ANYWHERE has the right of way.

The handbook specifically states "should" not "must".....

Go to the previous traffic thread, there you will find the link to the section in the MTO handbook where it states this.

As for your careless driving reference, dude, what rule book did YOU read? Sorry but to even insinuate that merging traffic has the right of way over vehicles already travelling on a highway is ludicrous (and I'm not talking about the rapper).

Next thing you will be telling us is that drivers making turns from side streets have the right of way over vehicles already travelling on the main thoroughfare.....

Obviously, you went to a different driving school. Oh well, you have the right to disagree with me.

A cop can charge any one with careless driving if it is a matter of failure to take adequate measures to share the road safely.

And I quote,

Ontario's Careless Driving Law, contained in Highway Traffic Act Section 130 and introduced in 1990, concludes that every person is guilty of the offence of driving carelessly who drives a vehicle or street car on a highway without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway. If convicted under the Careless Driving Law, motorists may be liable for a fine of $200 to $1,000, as well as a jail term for a maximum of six months. As well, the motorist's licence may be revoked for a period of up to two years. This is one of Ontario's toughest rules of the road.

In 1990, Québec and Ontario signed a Reciprocal Agreement to promote compliance of traffic and highway safety within their respective borders.

You cut some one off trying to merge, and that person is making every effort to do so safely, or if you do not pay attention to traffic around you, and you cut some one off trying to enter onto as highway, you COULD be charged for failure to drive safely and with due consideration of others.

 

[thompo69]

Ontario's Careless Driving Law, contained in Highway Traffic Act Section 130 and introduced in 1990, concludes that every person is guilty of the offence of driving carelessly who drives a vehicle or street car on a highway without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway. If convicted under the Careless Driving Law, motorists may be liable for a fine of $200 to $1,000, as well as a jail term for a maximum of six months. As well, the motorist's licence may be revoked for a period of up to two years. This is one of Ontario's toughest rules of the road.

...

You cut some one off trying to merge, and that person is making every effort to do so safely, or if you do not pay attention to traffic around you, and you cut some one off trying to enter onto as highway, you COULD be charged for failure to drive safely and with due consideration of others.

Not yielding to traffic that is attempting to enter a highway (what this discussion was about), and cutting someone off are two very different things. You are correct that the second could be construed as careless driving, but the former highly unlikely.

You are assuming a standard of "due care and attention" that far exceeds reality.

 

[shakenbake]

Not yielding to traffic that is attempting to enter a highway (what this discussion was about), and cutting someone off are two very different things. You are correct that the second could be construed as careless driving, but the former highly unlikely.

You are assuming a standard of "due care and attention" that far exceeds reality.

It happened, in fact, that there were charges laid against some asshole who did deliberately cut off some one who was trying to enter a freeway. The person attempting to enter was forced into a culvert/ditch at the end of the entrance ramp and did a lot of damage to their vehicle, with witnesses present, of course. This was definitely a case of careless driving, don't you agree? If the driver doing the cutting off was playing cat and mouse with the one entering, would that not be considered careless driving?

However, if the person who is trying to enter into the freeway does not try to keep pace with a gap in the traffic on the freeway, then it is that driver's fault if he/she runs off the road. This is where I can see your point, and I hope that you see mine. At the very least, the person who would be cutting off the entering vehicle would be charged with following too close.

 

[mmouse]

I always let people in, unless they don't indicate, in which case no way are they getting in front of me.

 

[tboy]

As posted, deliberately cutting someone off while they are trying to merge and not moving over or slowing down/speeding up to let them in are two totally different things.

The optimum word here is deliberately. If the traffic on the highway (or thoroughfare) is moving at 100 kph, there should be room behind or in front of a vehicle for another to fit. As the merging traffic (who must be at the same speed as the existing traffic on the highway) moves in front of or behind a vehicle, the traffic might adjust spacing accordingly. However, if there isn't room for the merging vehilce, they should adjust their speed accordingly to find room in the flow of traffic. If there isn't room, they should wait until there is....plain and simple. That is why they have traffic control lights at the on ramps on entrance ramps on the QEW. As stated in the other thread, if it was mandatory for the existing traffic to yield to merging traffic they would have put the traffic lights on the highway, not the on ramp.

Anyhow, as you stated, deliberately speeding up or slowing down to prevent someone from entering is careless driving bordering on dangerous driving. However to expect traffic to slow down to let merging traffic in, goes against all the 'right of way' laws in the HTA.

With all that being said, if I am in the slow lane (lol like THAT ever happens lol) I use this rule of thumb when approaching an on ramp: if the merging vehicle's drivers door is ahead of me, I will slow down slightly, to let them in. If the nose/front of the vehicle is paralell with my driver's door, then THEY should slow down and get behind me. All too often I find that the merging traffic tries to jam ahead of me when there obviously is little room and it is especially infuriating when there is obviously 6+ car lengths of space behind me.

 

[shakenbake]

tboy;

You are right, and a courteous and safe driver. I believe that we are saying essentially the same thing, bu with different words. I wish there were less morons and more of us on the road. All it takes is one bad driver to ruin it for every one.

 

[Moraff]

tboy;

You are right, and a courteous and safe driver. I believe that we are saying essentially the same thing, bu with different words. I wish there were less morons and more of us on the road. All it takes is one bad driver to ruin it for every one.

You are saying the same things.

1) If you deliberately alter your highway speed/lane in order to get in someone's way you can be charged with careless/reckless driving.

2) If you are maintaining a constant speed in the right lane it is the legal requirement of the merging driver to fit in around you.

3) If possible it is courteous (but not required) for the driver in the right lane to maneuver out of the way of the merging driver.

If I am in the right lane (and there's no room to move over a lane) I try to maintain a gap of several extra car-lengths between myself and the car in front of me so there is room for merging traffic. Should I end up in a side-by-side situation I will back off the gas slightly if the traffic flow allows. I'm not slowing down if there's cars right behind me doing the same speed as me, that'd just slow everyone down.

 

[shakenbake]

You are saying the same things.

1) If you deliberately alter your highway speed/lane in order to get in someone's way you can be charged with careless/reckless driving.

2) If you are maintaining a constant speed in the right lane it is the legal requirement of the merging driver to fit in around you.

3) If possible it is courteous (but not required) for the driver in the right lane to maneuver out of the way of the merging driver.

If I am in the right lane (and there's no room to move over a lane) I try to maintain a gap of several extra car-lengths between myself and the car in front of me so there is room for merging traffic. Should I end up in a side-by-side situation I will back off the gas slightly if the traffic flow allows. I'm not slowing down if there's cars right behind me doing the same speed as me, that'd just slow everyone down.

You got it!