Having affair with a student

[Big Daddy]

Re: Tenure

I hear that term all the time, but what does it mean? what does it afford you? how do you apply for it and why is it important?

That means almost life long job gurantee. You will never be fired (unless you get into harassing students etc.) and you have freedom of speech. That means I can yell at my boss and there is nothing he can do (can't wait for that day). You need to have a doctorate and a tenure-track job. You bust your ass for next six years and put up with a lot of shit from students and other tenured faculty. At the end of 5th year your credentials (teaching evaluations, research publications and service) are evaluated by a committee that decides your tenure. If denied tenure, you have to leave the university in the 7th year and find another job.

If you get tenure then you can start kicking everyones ass

 

[Don]

No offense but...

No offense Big Daddy, I'm sure you deserve it but... why would any employer offer tenure to any employee? It doesn't make sense and sounds like a bad idea.

I've had some terrible teachers during both high school and university and the only reason why they were still teaching was because they had tenure and could not be let go. I thought it was ridiculous then and I still don't get it.......

 

[Big Daddy]

No Offense taken

Universities give tenure because they cannot find qualified employees with similar qualification. You only get tenure if the university cannot find a employee with similar qualifications. Just do the Math. A person with Bachlors degree, a masters degree a doctorate, 85 journal publications, consulting experience, expert testimonies, and patents cannot be easily replaced.

Universities make a lot of money from research grants, patent royalties and are willing to keep professors inspite of their poor teaching.

As a student, you may not see this as you only see a professor's teaching, but a professor's compensation depends on several other factors. Teaching evaluations don't change much. If you are a easy teacher then hard working students feel that they don't get rewarded for their hard work and will mess up your evaluation. If you are hard then students will still complain. So most professors focus on their research and service where it is easy to show the contribution.

 

[hasablah]

Student Affairs

May I suggest that you pick up the novel Blue Angel by Francine Prose. Good little read that may shed light on your dilemma.

On a related topic, a friend of mine married one of her profs. Seems to be going all right for them. That had to start somewhere.....

 

[MuffinMuncher]

Um.. did i miss something?

No offense, but is "independent study" a code phrase for "i want to boff your brains out for a semester, mister sexy hot professor man"???

Big Daddy, is there some other evidence that she even WANTS to pursue a triste of some sort? Or is this a hypothetical question just in case you find yourself with opportunity?

Assuming she is past the legal age of consent, you have a few points to ponder:

• Can she be discrete about your relationship?
• Is the chance or retribution minimal if the relationship goes sour?
• Can you resist the temptation to show favortism in grading (if she is your student)?
• Will you reach tenure before the worst possible scenario should come to pass?
• Are you free of any other primary relationship that might suffer if the affair is made public?

If the answers are "yes", then go ahead, have fun fulfilling a fantasy most men only dream about. BUT, if any of the answers are "no"... tread carefully as you have something to lose.

Never live life looking over your shoulder and wondering "what if.... "

 

[gypsy121]

Tenure

The original purpose of academic tenure was to permit scholars freedom of thought. If an academic felt they could not express thoughts and ideas freely without risk of termination the university would not be serving its main purpose of stimulating the growth of new ideas. Tenure was born from this and while it may be mis-used at times it is, in general, still a shield for those who have new and often unpopular ideas. Without it universites would become a sterile wasteland.


gypsy

 

[xarir]

Tenure also give academics the freedom to delve deeply into areas that would otherwise be deemed unprofitable. Basically a tenured prof can study more or less anything he (or she) wants to.

Without tenure, it would be difficult for a prof to justify why it's important to study the impact of applying an electrical charge to a combination of gases (lasers) or how to construct a circuit based on a series of transistors embedded in a semiconductor (the integrated circuit = computer chips) or more esoteric subjects such as construction techniques used in building 12th century monastaries.

Sometimes research can end up being for purely academic purposes only - knowledge for the sake of knowledge. (Arguably, the world is enriched for it.) Other times the research can end up being very practical (cleaner burning gas in cars, controlling the mosquito population in summer). The point is, how do you now what's going to be practical and what's not? Sometimes you just have to dive in there and see what there is to be seen. Tenure allows this.

 

[xarir]

Re: Um.. did i miss something?

• Can she be discrete about your relationship?
• Is the chance or retribution minimal if the relationship goes sour?
• Can you resist the temptation to show favortism in grading (if she is your student)?
• Will you reach tenure before the worst possible scenario should come to pass?
• Are you free of any other primary relationship that might suffer if the affair is made public?

Generally speaking, I think these guidelines would be true of any relationship in the workplace.

 

[danibbler]

My solution?

Usually, I find ethical dilemmas such as these easily resolvable with a hot shower and big bar of Dove soap.


If that solution doesn't work, I suggest you go to your board of governors and ask them. Does that suggestion sound stupid? Well, not as stupid as some of the other suggestions people here come up with.

 

[Big Daddy]

Thank you everyone. I really appreciate your honest views. It is nice to learn from your experiences and keep my life on track.

Also, thanks for everyone who clarified the meaning of tenure. You were all right on. Without tenure, it is difficult for a instructor to be strict as student evaluations govern the instructor's life. Sometimes I believe that one of the reasons why universities fail to produce quality students is that untenured instructors cannot make it hard for students. A few students know this and gang up on the instructors.

Also, research is quest for seeking the truth. When people review collegues' research (peer-review before publication), they should not have any fear. Additionally, universities value freedom of speech of students as well. Perhaps the only place things are fair and people have real freedoms are the universities.

There are a few bad apples who do abuse the tenure system and the freedoms it provides.

 

[onthebottom]

Tenured Sales Position

Anyone know where I can find a Tenured sales positon with stock options and a lofty salary. I'm an easy grader!

OTB

 

[i_am_good]

Hey BigDaddy,

I agree with MuffinMuncher.

Furthermore, what do you know about this student? How long has she been a student at this institution? Does she have a reputation for dating profs? How are her grades? Could she be playing you? Is she single? How much do you two have in common?

Just being nosy!

 

[Big Daddy]

Hey BigDaddy,

I agree with MuffinMuncher.

Furthermore, what do you know about this student? How long has she been a student at this institution? Does she have a reputation for dating profs? How are her grades? Could she be playing you? Is she single? How much do you two have in common?

Just being nosy!

She just started last semester. I don't know about her reputation on dating professors, but I have asked her to meet with me several times outside the university over the weekends and she did not have any problems (I was very careful). She is single. Her grades are good and she is a graduate student.

She could be playing me. Also, I don't have much in common with her. She has a great body and that is where my dilemma begins.

 

[Big Daddy]

Re: Tenured Sales Position

Anyone know where I can find a Tenured sales positon with stock options and a lofty salary. I'm an easy grader!

OTB

Yes, I have seen examples of several such positions in academic textbooks

 

[Casa_Nova]

I think this is one of those situations where you have to ask yourself-is it worth it. And by that I mean thinking with your brain and not somewhere else

It sounds like you have things going for you pretty well. This student may have a smoking bod...but is it worth it-cause even if there's the slightest chance that she might rat on you, it'll be all over for you. We know you can sue someone for just about anything nowadays, and even if the lawsuit doesn't go through, you know your reputation will be tarnished forever.

 

[Big Daddy]

The solution is...

The real solution for tenure and saving your reputation for a professor is .......... Flag the dolphine (before the class) ......... sad but true

 

[Casa_Nova]

Re: The solution is...

The real solution for tenure and saving your reputation for a professor is .......... Flag the dolphine (before the class) ......... sad but true

Haha, I hope u didn't mean flagging the dolphin before (in front of) the WHOLE class

 

[i_am_good]

Hey BigDaddy,

I think that lots of girls get attracted to their profs. One girl I know told me she dated her prof and was totally surprised by her actions.

She said it was the whole prof "mystque"/image that turned her on. In fact, he was her first!

So then, could this be just the beginning?

 

[BallsOnFire]

Its like cheating!

Oportunity should not be wasted. BANG then dump, because you can never say " I met my wife when I was teaching her " . No "REAL" future. Just a fantasy so fullfill it then leave. After all you going to give her a passing grade anyways.