Have a question about becoming a lawyer.

[busybeejr]

Let me begin by saying that I’m always amazed at the level of knowledge and valued advice from TERB members.
When I was young and stupid, about 11 years ago (1994), was charged with a criminal offence and received an absolute discharge. I did some community service and got an automatic pardon.
Recently got accepted into law school and was wondering if my record will be an issue with entry to bar association and future law practice.
Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Howdat]

Let me begin by saying that I’m always amazed at the level of knowledge and valued advice from TERB members.
When I was young and stupid, about 11 years ago (1994), was charged with a criminal offence and received an absolute discharge. I did some community service and got an automatic pardon.
Recently got accepted into law school and was wondering if my record will be an issue with entry to bar association and future law practice.
Any help is greatly appreciated.

Yep. The big firms will do a check before or after they hire you as an articling student and make a decision right before they decide on who will become an associate - regardless of how good you are or your marks coming out of school. Not sure if the BAR will not grant you the right to practice however.

 

[katetoronto]

You already have a pardon? Then it shouldn't be an issue. If you don't have one, I highly recommend it.

 

[yeet_1]

was charged with a criminal offence and received an absolute discharge...got an automatic pardon.

An absolute discharge means the charge is automatically deleted from your record after one year.

You thus have no criminal record??!! I doubt a small criminal record will deny entry to the bar anyway.

 

[red]

are you kidding- it will help you fit right in

 

[TheNiteHwk]

Just lie about it and deny, deny, deny. Good practise for when you finally get out there in the field.

 

[Brownie69]

A little known fact..... if you have been charged with a criminal offence, whether you were convicted or if it was thrown out of court you have a criminal record. I don't know what happens in your case where you got an automatic pardon though.

I recommend going to www.pardons.org for info or call (416)929-6011. They'll help you clear your record if need be. Mind you, I dunno how much that'll cost.

 

[Aircraft]

Pardon me?

The pardon will remove any disqualification from the perspective of federal statutes and regulations. But it does not have any necessary impact on provincial laws or any rules that an employer might apply, provided these are legal under provincial law.

 

[papasmerf]

Let me begin by saying that I’m always amazed at the level of knowledge and valued advice from TERB members.
When I was young and stupid, about 11 years ago (1994), was charged with a criminal offence and received an absolute discharge. I did some community service and got an automatic pardon.
Recently got accepted into law school and was wondering if my record will be an issue with entry to bar association and future law practice.
Any help is greatly appreciated.

Do you think for one minute that being honest is any part of being a lawyer?

 

[Geographic]

Becoming a lawyer

I believe you do get an automatic pardon three years after the end of your probation period from your discharge. You can confirm by reading the pardon application form.

With regards to being called to the ONtario Bar. You can have criminal record but it really depends upon a record. If you have been convicted of fraud or being in a position of trust, you may not be called to the bar as the bar is sensitive of lawyers being in a position of trust and having access to their trust accounts (ie your client's money). This is where most lawyers get into trouble ie taking money from their trust account without properly billing for it.

As for a big law firm, it again is up to thier discretion. If you are good they will still hire you. In a big law firm you don't have access to the trust account.

 

[JoyfulC]

I was thinking about becoming a lawyer...

... but then, I decided, if I was going to fuck people for a living, I'd prefer that they enjoyed it.

..c..
(sorry for being off topic!)

 

[Aircraft]

Pardon me?

I believe you do get an automatic pardon three years after the end of your probation period from your discharge. You can confirm by reading the pardon application form.

With regards to being called to the ONtario Bar. You can have criminal record but it really depends upon a record. If you have been convicted of fraud or being in a position of trust, you may not be called to the bar as the bar is sensitive of lawyers being in a position of trust and having access to their trust accounts (ie your client's money). This is where most lawyers get into trouble ie taking money from their trust account without properly billing for it.

As for a big law firm, it again is up to thier discretion. If you are good they will still hire you. In a big law firm you don't have access to the trust account.

Rub is correct; you have to apply for a pardon even with an absolute discharge. But you only have to wait a year, after the discharge, as I recall.


_____________________

"But he redeemed his vices with his virtues. There was ever more in him to be praised than to be pardoned."

 

[Keebler Elf]

If I am asked if I have a criminal record, the answer is no. If I am asked if I have ever been convicted of an indictable offence, the anwer is no. And the proof is that I have a valid gun license. If I am asked if I have ever been arrested, the answer has to be yes. If I am caught in the lie, nothing I say from that point on is credible.

The question I've been asked is have I ever been charged with an indictable offence? IIRC, I think it was a customs/border officer (but I could be wrong). That's potentially a much broader question.

 

[Geographic]

Discharge

I checked the Criminal Records Act and it confirms that you don't need to apply for a pardon and there seems to be no automatic pardon as it appears the record of a discharge is automatically wiped clean after one year after an absolute and three years after the end of a probationary period with regard to a conditional discharge.

This is consistent with the idea that a discharge is not a criminal record in the first place so there is no need for a pardon application.


Discharges
6.1 (1) No record of a discharge under section 730 of the Criminal Code that is in the custody of the Commissioner or of any department or agency of the Government of Canada shall be disclosed to any person, nor shall the existence of the record or the fact of the discharge be disclosed to any person, without the prior approval of the Minister, if

(a) more than one year has elapsed since the offender was discharged absolutely; or

(b) more than three years have elapsed since the offender was discharged on the conditions prescribed in a probation order.

Purging C.P.I.C.
(2) The Commissioner shall remove all references to a discharge under section 730 of the Criminal Code from the automated criminal conviction records retrieval system maintained by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police on the expiration of the relevant period referred to in subsection (1).

 

[Aircraft]

Pardon me boy, is that the Chattanooga Choo-choo?

The question I've been asked is have I ever been charged with an indictable offence? IIRC, I think it was a customs/border officer (but I could be wrong). That's potentially a much broader question.

This is a clever question, since you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Being acquitted of a charge does not prevent there being a record showing the date, place and substance of the charge or arrest and the associated disposition of the matter from being placed in the permanent records of the RCMP. This information can still be made available to enforcement agencies throughout Canada and beyond (unless, of course, you are a terrorist who plans no attacks upon Canada).
Accordingly, it is best to acknowledge any charge, since if you are caught out then you may find yourself subject to searches and indignities which go beyond normal procedures.
But, in either case, if you have been acquitted of such charges, there is no basis for violating any rights which you share with other citizens-if you tell the truth.

___________________

"Never make a defence or apology before you be accused".

 

[joebear]

When I was young and stupid, about 11 years ago (1994), was charged with a criminal offence and received an absolute discharge. I did some community service and got an automatic pardon.

You couldn't have gotten an absolute discharge if you got community service. An absolute discharge comes with no terms, no probation and automatically purged from CPIC if the offence occurred on or after July 24, 1992. You probably got a conditional discharge with terms of community service in it. Unless your lawyer or the Crown demanded some community service before entering into the guilty plea.

However, usually in John sweeps, after from completing Springboard diversion which mean community service hours and completing John school, you will get an absolute discharge.

If the absolute or conditional discharge was before that date you have to apply for discharges registered before July 24, 1992, are purged upon written request from the individual.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/crimrec/pandp_e.htm

RCMP
PARDON AND PURGE SERVICES
Box 8885
Ottawa, ON K1G 3M8
Fax: 613-957-9063

Requests must contain all of the following information:
your full name (including any maiden names or aliases),
date of birth,
full return mailing address,
phone number (include area code), and
the particulars of the offence(s) that apply.

download the forms from:
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/forms/public_e.htm

Yep. The big firms will do a check before or after they hire you as an articling student and make a decision right before they decide on who will become an associate - regardless of how good you are or your marks coming out of school. Not sure if the BAR will not grant you the right to practice however.

Above is a typical response from someone who does not know a dam thing.

You have nothing to worry about.

You will have to disclose to the Law Society ALL offences that you were charged with and their disposition.

Lastly don't forget to contact the police service who arrested you to purge your fingerprints and photo.

 

[katetoronto]

Okay, here's what I learned:

Even if you DO get a pardon, you have to tell the bar about it. They will either accept your pardon & explanation, or you will have to go before the bar for an "interview" to explain yourself further. It shouldn't be a problem, depending on what exactly you did.