Harvard scientist says Trump hatred motivated experts who denied Wuhan lab leak theory

[Phil C. McNasty]

Top US scientist tells the media Wuhan lab was indeed collecting bat virus samples right around the time the pandemic started:

Scientist heard about Covid TWO WEEKS before Beijing warned the world

The revelation by Ian Lipkin, a professor at Columbia University honoured by China for work on the first Sars epidemic, undermines the official Beijing narrative on the origins.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Prof Lipkin, who caught Covid-19 soon after his return to the United States, was a key figure in the fierce debate over origins of the virus and attempts to stifle the lab-leak hypothesis by the scientific establishment.

The eminent expert condemned blaming of China, praised its efforts to control the outbreak and co-authored a hugely influential commentary in Nature Medicine journal that ruled out plausibility of 'any type of laboratory-based scenario'.

He is head of a unit at Columbia's Mailman School of Public Health, which won grants worth $1.34 million (£970,000) between 2018 and 2020 from EcoHealth Alliance, a charity that also funded controversial research into bat viruses at Wuhan Institute of Virology.

British scientist Peter Daszak, the charity's $460,368- a-year (£332,118) president, played a central role in labelling concerns over the possibility of a laboratory incident sparking the pandemic as 'conspiracy theory'.

Yet Prof Lipkin admitted his view changed after learning that high-risk experiments on bat coronaviruses were carried out by Wuhan scientists in low-biosafety labs.

'If they've got hundreds of bat samples that are coming in, and some of them aren't characterised, how would they know whether this virus was or wasn't in this lab? They wouldn't,' he said in June.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

A few things off here in your analysis.

- did you make up the 10%? Sounds like. The flu watch reports report far lower numbers

I could only find US numbers. They claim between 5 and 20% of Americans annually get the flu
(depending on how severe flu season is).

Posted here: https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/har...ied-wuhan-lab-leak-theory.749590/post-7194755

 

[Valcazar]

Before the pandemic hit Canada had a grand total of 4,982 ventilators spread throughout 286 hospitals nationwide.
Source: https://ir.lib.uwo.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1031&context=anatomypub



Now lets say 10% of all Canadians get the flu in the winter time. That means 3.7 million Canadians get sick from the flu each year.
So at any given time there are only 4,982 ventilators needed to give treatment to whatever the number of patients seek hospital treatment every year.
3.7 million/4,982 =1 ventilator for every 724 Canadian who is sick.
Or another way too look at it is 4,982/3.7 million = .1% of all Canadians need to be put on a ventilator when they get sick from the flu each year.

So from those stats you can see how rare it is for a regular flu patient to need a ventilator.
Thats why its considered circumstantial evidence when out of those 3 Wuhan lab workers who got sick, one needed to be hooked up to a ventilator when he/she got sick. The odds raise that suspicion by quite a bit to any rational person

Why are you randomly making up numbers when you have the ICU numbers given to you in a previous post?

Also, you don't seem to understand how odds work.

Even setting aside the whole "I heard on the TV that there was a guy on a ventilator" thing, there were not three people who got sick with the flu in China that year.
There were millions, and some ended up on ventilators.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Why are you randomly making up numbers when you have the ICU numbers given to you in a previous post?

That link basketcase posted doesnt tell us the total number of flu patients annually who wind up in ICU.
(or what percentage of all flu patients wind up in ICU).

If you do have those numbers, please post them

 

[Valcazar]

That link basketcase posted doesnt tell us the total number of flu patients annually who wind up in ICU.
(or what percentage of all flu patients wind up in ICU).

If you do have those numbers, please post them

I did.
We have the exact Canadian numbers for the last two years. (You could go back further too.)

Canada lists exactly how many people were reported as in the ICU due to influenza.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

I did.
We have the exact Canadian numbers for the last two years. (You could go back further too.)

Canada lists exactly how many people were reported as in the ICU due to influenza.

My bad, I missed that post. So only 613 ICU admissions in 2018/2019.
And according to basketcase's other link 50% of those wind up on ventilators.

That means when 3.7 million Canadians get the flu each year only .008% wind up on a ventilator (307/3.7 million).
So you can se how rare it is for a regular flu patient to end up on a ventilator

 

[Valcazar]

My bad, I missed that post. So only 613 ICU admissions in 2018/2019.
And according to basketcase's other link 50% of those wind up on ventilators.

That means when 3.7 million Canadians get the flu each year only .008% wind up on a ventilator (307/3.7 million).
So you can se how rare it is for a regular flu patient to end up on a ventilator

Extremely.
Which is why if one of the Wuhan scientists ended up on a ventilator it would be a big deal, even if it was during a particularly bad flu season in Wuhan.

So why can't anyone find any news report saying that happened?

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Extremely.
Which is why if one of the Wuhan scientists ended up on a ventilator it would be a big deal, even if it was during a particularly bad flu season in Wuhan.

So why can't anyone find any news report saying that happened?

Okay, so now we have at least moved on from basketcase arguing that its common for flu patients to end up on a ventilator.
Its not common at all. Its also not common for regular flu patients to end up in ICU.

I really dont want to spend hours googling for it, but I distinctly remember hearing it on the news that one of the Wuhan lab workers was in ICU on a ventilator. The best I can find is this MSN report (although it only mentions hospital, not ICU):

MSN

www.msn.com

According to the Wall Street Journal, the report states that three employees of the Wuhan Institute of Virology sought hospital care in November 2019, approximately when SARS-CoV-2 is thought to have started circulating in the Chinese city. The Institute works with coronaviruses found in animal populations

 

[Valcazar]

Okay, so now we have at least moved on from basketcase arguing that its common for flu patients to end up on a ventilator.
Its not common at all. Its also not common for regular flu patients to end up in ICU.

I really dont want to spend hours googling for it, but I distinctly remember hearing it on the news that one of the Wuhan lab workers was in ICU on a ventilator. The best I can find is this MSN report (although it only mentions hospital, not ICU):

MSN

www.msn.com

Yes, that's the same report from the beginning.
In the middle of a strong flu season in Wuhan, three scientists working in Wuhan went to the hospital with symptoms consistent with both flu and COVID.
Considering going to the hospital for basic treatment is common in China, this tells us... very little.

 

[basketcase]

Before the pandemic hit Canada had a grand total of 4,982 ventilators spread throughout 286 hospitals nationwide.
...

Yes, because somewhere between 20% and 50% (depending on the study) of critical flu cases require them.

Still waiting for even a shred of a source that says that a lab worker was on a ventilator.

 

[basketcase]

Top US scientist tells the media Wuhan lab was indeed collecting bat virus samples right around the time the pandemic started:
...

Didn't we already know that?

And you evidence that the lab leaked one of these naturally occurring virus samples?

 

[basketcase]

That link basketcase posted doesnt tell us the total number of flu patients annually who wind up in ICU.
(or what percentage of all flu patients wind up in ICU).

If you do have those numbers, please post them

It did clearly show that ventilators are used in some critical flu cases which you said was impossible.

But keep on moving the goalposts to try avoid admitting you were wrong and to cover up your claim about the lab worker.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Yes, because somewhere between 20% and 50% (depending on the study) of critical flu cases require them

You're trying to bullshit your way out of this now.
Only a tiny percentage of flu patients seek ICU treatment.
In Canada its only .008% annually who wind up on a ventilator each year from the flu.
Thats why its odd that all 3 Wuhan lab workers who got sick had to go to the hospital

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Didn't we already know that?

And you evidence that the lab leaked one of these naturally occurring virus samples?

Kinda hard to prove anything now when China refuses to let WHO into their lab to do an investigation

China refuses further inquiry into Covid-19 origins in Wuhan lab

Proposal to audit Chinese laboratories is ‘arrogance towards science’, says health official

www.theguardian.com

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

It did clearly show that ventilators are used in some critical flu cases which you said was impossible

I never said it was impossible, I said it was rarely done.
You cant even read properly

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Yes, that's the same report from the beginning.
In the middle of a strong flu season in Wuhan, three scientists working in Wuhan went to the hospital with symptoms consistent with both flu and COVID.
Considering going to the hospital for basic treatment is common in China, this tells us... very little

Its still suspicious that all 3 lab workers got so sick they found it necessary to go the hospital. Most people when they feel a common cold or flu coming on they simply go home and go to bed (even in China). And yet they were apparently so sick that they needed hospital care

 

[Valcazar]

Its still suspicious that all 3 lab workers got so sick they found it necessary to go the hospital. Most people when they feel a common cold or flu coming on they simply go home and go to bed (even in China). And yet they were apparently so sick that they needed hospital care

Only that isn't that suspicious since basic care if often hospital care there.
They got sick enough to be checked out.
This tells us... nothing, really.
Maybe lab workers always get sent to be checked out if sick. Maybe they were sick enough to need something.
We literally don't know.
Other than an intelligence report saying they heard this happened, I don't think we've ever seen a follow up.
Were they diagnosed? Were blood samples taken? Did people go back and check them for antibodies?
Were they before or after other early reported cases that have shown up in the record now?

It just doesn't tell us very much when all it is is "we heard three people got sick".

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Only that isn't that suspicious since basic care if often hospital care there.
They got sick enough to be checked out.
This tells us... nothing, really.
Maybe lab workers always get sent to be checked out if sick. Maybe they were sick enough to need something.
We literally don't know.
Other than an intelligence report saying they heard this happened, I don't think we've ever seen a follow up.
Were they diagnosed? Were blood samples taken? Did people go back and check them for antibodies?
Were they before or after other early reported cases that have shown up in the record now?

It just doesn't tell us very much when all it is is "we heard three people got sick".

Except that former FDA chief Dr. Scott Gottlieb said it was enough circumstantial evidence to raise suspicions.
You say its not, I say I'll go with Gottlieb on this one

Gottlieb says there's growing circumstantial evidence that Covid may have originated in a lab

With other coronaviruses, SARS and MERS, researchers were able to identify the animal those diseases emerged from at this point in those outbreaks.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Valcazar]

Except that former FDA chief Dr. Scott Gottlieb said it was enough circumstantial evidence to raise suspicions.
You say its not, I say I'll go with Gottlieb on this one

Gottlieb says there's growing circumstantial evidence that Covid may have originated in a lab

With other coronaviruses, SARS and MERS, researchers were able to identify the animal those diseases emerged from at this point in those outbreaks.

www.cnbc.com

And Gottlieb agrees with me, as that interview shows.

 

[jcpro]

I don't get all the arguments to "save" China. It is a fact that the Wuhan labs experimented on bats. It is a fact that their lab workers ended up in the hospital with the infection. If anything, the onus is on the Chinese to explain themselves. Their secrecy and the refusal to cooperate only solidifies the case against the natural origins of the virus.