Harper's leaky ark

danmand

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Friday, October 17, 2008
The Contra Guys



“It wasn’t raining when Noah built the ark. Which is why when the rain came Noah didn’t need to panic and he didn’t switch boats.” – Stephen Harper

This pithy allusion to the biblical boat builder was used by our Prime Minister to assure the folks down at the Canadian Club that due to his government’s stewardship, the Canadian economy was well prepared to ride out the storm emanating from the financial crisis in the United States. A few days later he told the CBC’s Peter Mansbridge that the severe drop in stock prices represented a “buying opportunity”. What’s next, Stephen Harper, on BNN’s Market Call, taking your queries about large-cap investing?

We’re not religious types, but we get the gist of the ark story and can see that it is a handy metaphor for the idea that precautionary measures can be taken to prepare for the extremes of the business cycle. But as pleasant as this notion might be, a glance at the record tells a different story than Mr. Harper’s.

For starters, the architect and general contractor of the ark was Paul Martin. In the mid-1990s Canada was in the grips of a severe financial crisis. Not the kind that shakes the world and hogs the global headlines, but one of the pernicious, slowly strangling variety, which threatened to bankrupt our country and send us cap in hand to the International Monetary Fund, as is now happening to Iceland and Hungary. By 1995 the accumulated national debt had risen to the point where 36 per cent of all federal revenue was devoured by interest alone. And buying a Starbuck’s coffee and sandwich in the United States with our beleaguered loonie meant unloading a bucket of Canadian dollars.

When we buy troubled companies we look for management that can make the tough decisions to comprehensively restructure the corporation and set it on the path to profitability. Mr. Martin took such a tack with the public purse, cutting expenses, increasing revenue, and changing the prevailing culture of “hope for the best” budget planning to a vigilant approach that featured a large “contingency reserve.”

Those were unkind years and many Canadians suffered, not to mention provincial governments that were left holding the bag for chopped services. But a $42-billion annual deficit was replaced with surpluses that knocked $36-billion off the national debt by 2004.

With the Liberals mortally wounded by the sponsorship scandal, a new political party was minding the store and tax cuts were high on the agenda. But what kind? There was nearly unanimous advice from such varied economic think tanks as the Fraser and C.D Howe institutes, not to mention everyone from the IMF and OECD to the Canadian Auto Workers, that reducing taxes on consumption was a bad idea. Nonetheless, Mr. Harper chose political expediency over fiscal prudence and reduced the GST by a percentage point in July 2006.

That was tantamount to firing Torpedo One into the ark. A year and half later, Torpedo Two was sent on its way as the GST was further reduced to 5 per cent. To date, this action has resulted in about a $19-billion drop in revenues to the federal coffer. Worse, it further stimulated consumer spending at the very time when the economy was cresting the economic cycle. More imports flowed into Canada while consumers went deeper into debt. Rather than letting the air out of the bubble slowly, it inflated it more.

If the mantra of real estate is “location, location, location,” then surely for fiscal policy, it is “timing, timing, timing.” We at Contra the Heard advocated higher taxes on gasoline and diesel in 1998 when oil was at $11 (U.S.) a barrel and everybody wanted to run out and buy a SUV. There’s nothing wrong with government cutting sales taxes – if it happens to be in the midst of a stubborn recession and consumers need to be coaxed out of their bunkers to release pent up demand. Government can’t repeal the business cycle, but with good timing and a little finesse, it can help put the brakes on an economy that is in bubble territory, or mitigate the misery when times are tough.

As for Mr. Harper’s advice to buy stocks now, we agree that prices are much more attractive but we do not see the point of rushing in. The problem is that the recession is just getting started, or to put it in biblical terms, we’re probably around day six with another 34 days of rain to go. Even if you happen to be fortunate enough to be sitting in an ark full of cash, smugly looking out the window at those nasty drowning sinners, doesn’t it seem a little early to open the wallet? Granted, if you wait until the floodwaters recede and a new sparkly day has dawned, some deep bargain prices will probably be missed. But many will remain even as the weather starts to clear.

Given that the Conservative government squandered the opportunity to fill the granary during a time of plenty, we can expect the recession to be deeper and longer than necessary. To us, that argues for patience to convert precious cash into beat up stocks. Perhaps Mr. Harper will kindly suggest exactly which corporations we should buy. While waiting, many Canadians are tabulating an unnecessary election cost of about $300-million (Canadian) to look at a government that appears to be very much, the same old leaky boat.
 

capncrunch

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I always get a kick out of these righties who go on and on and on about how they're 'fiscally responsible' and that debts/deficits are a bit of liberal nastiness.

But time has shown, over and over again, that it's right-wing governments that spend and spend and spend and spend. It happened in the US under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. It happened in Canada under Mulroney. It took so-called 'liberals' like Clinton in the US and Chretien/Martin in Canada to get a handle on government spending.
 

train

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danmand said:
Given that the Conservative government squandered the opportunity to fill the granary during a time of plenty, we can expect the recession to be deeper and longer than necessary.
Are you saying you would have preferred that he taxed the hell out of everyone starting two years ago ? Not only that but tax us and then hold onto it and not give to McSquint or the CBC or Ducks Unlimited or what ever else you were whining that we spend it on a year ago ?

To us, that argues for patience to convert precious cash into beat up stocks. Perhaps Mr. Harper will kindly suggest exactly which corporations we should buy. While waiting, many Canadians are tabulating an unnecessary election cost of about $300-million (Canadian) to look at a government that appears to be very much, the same old leaky boat.
Hw was parroting what most of the Bay St econoptimists were saying at the time, trying to calm people down.

Actually you are more rambling than usual on this post :D and have expressed nothing new or insightful.
 

landscaper

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capncrunch said:
I always get a kick out of these righties who go on and on and on about how they're 'fiscally responsible' and that debts/deficits are a bit of liberal nastiness.

But time has shown, over and over again, that it's right-wing governments that spend and spend and spend and spend. It happened in the US under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. It happened in Canada under Mulroney. It took so-called 'liberals' like Clinton in the US and Chretien/Martin in Canada to get a handle on government spending.
Chretien/Martin to get a handle on govt spending?????????

They looted UIC and downloaded a whole shit load of costs onto the provinces to " balance the books" . The actual govt spending increased by a huge amount. That is the kind og fiscal stewadrship you are looking for? In that case I am hiding my wallet
 

oldjones

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landscaper said:
Chretien/Martin to get a handle on govt spending?????????

They looted UIC and downloaded a whole shit load of costs onto the provinces to " balance the books" . The actual govt spending increased by a huge amount. That is the kind og fiscal stewadrship you are looking for? In that case I am hiding my wallet
They posted multi-billion dollar surpluses. Betcha' Harper/Flaherty's results for 2008 are in the red, after giving away all the tax money they could find—without fixing the UIC/EI scam. Difference: The Liberals could pay for their spending, and paid down the debt with the surpluses. The Cons have made that impossible, by cutting taxes—not progressively, but for the biggest consumers—and now they'll be running the big deficits, as did their Ameican Idols: Reagan and the Bush Dynasties.
 

Cinema Face

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I'll bet all you folks that lament about the GST decrease were all out partying in the streets when it was introduced in the first place. :rolleyes:

It's not too late, maybe you'll someday get your high taxes so you can have your little party again. lol

In the meantime, why don't you go take some economics class in night school. Make sure that you actually show up for the class where they teach the effects that taxes, particularly a consumer sales tax, has on the economy.
 

ottawasub

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Cinema Face said:
I'll bet all you folks that lament about the GST decrease were all out partying in the streets when it was introduced in the first place. :rolleyes:
Who was the party who introduced the GST in the place? I'll give you a hint: it wasn't the Liberals.
 

capncrunch

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Who likes being taxed? Certainly not me. And CF is right; high consumer taxes has a depressing effect on consumer spending. Nobody's arguing that.

Where the problem lies is in the long-since discredited philosophy of "supply side" economics, or "trickle-down" economics.

The theory goes that lower corporate taxes helps the economy by encouraging corporations to create employment.

But employment is not created through tax policy. Employment is created through markets. All the tax breaks in the world won't do diddly for a corporation that makes products that consumers won't buy.

There is, of course, a balance required so that corporations that are producing desired consumer goods aren't taxed out of existence, but they do pay their fair share. If those corporations don't pay their fare share of tax, that shifts the burdens onto consumers. And when consumers are taxed, they have less to spend on the products made by those same corporations.

For an interesting and highly detailed look at the ultimate supply-sider (who pretty much came up with the idea in the first place as Ronald Reagan's wunderkind), check out David Stockman's book The Triumph of Politics: Why the Reagan Revolution Failed.
 

slowpoke

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landscaper said:
Chretien/Martin to get a handle on govt spending?????????

They looted UIC and downloaded a whole shit load of costs onto the provinces to " balance the books" . The actual govt spending increased by a huge amount. That is the kind og fiscal stewadrship you are looking for? In that case I am hiding my wallet
Federal spending was cut at the same time that transfers to the provinces were cut. Your contention that "actual govt spending increased by a huge amount" is simply incorrect. Yes, the provinces got whacked but it is a gross distortion to say that Martin didn't make cuts as well. Show me a credible link that documents your claim.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20081024.COSIMP24/TPStory/?query=jeffrey+simpson

...."The Harperites are likely to cut spending or run a deficit, since they won't raise taxes. The premiers, naturally, have already warned against any cuts to transfers, with some of them recycling that old canard about how the Chrétien-Martin government licked the deficit on their backs.

This historical revisionism is false. Transfers were indeed reduced, but so were the budgets of every federal department except two - aboriginal affairs and justice."...


Flaherty, on the other hand, HAS INCREASED FEDERAL SPENDING and is projecting further increases. So maybe you should be looking at these simple facts instead of spreading conservative mythology.

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0013236

...."Flaherty hiked spending 6.3 per cent two years ago, and 5.4 per cent last year. His latest budget projects a two per cent increase in this fiscal year and 4.9 per cent next year. Not exactly a pattern of brutal austerity."....
 

capncrunch

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nathan_wong0 said:
Free-spending Harper the 'un-conservative'
Lorne Gunter, Times Colonist
Published: Monday, July 21, 2008
I'm not sure why this should be surprising. Right-wing governments have a long and illustrious history of uncontrolled spending. Combine that with their ill-conceived tax breaks for big business and the result is deficit, time after time after time. Remember their mantra: Do as I say, not as I do.
 

Never Compromised

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ottawasub said:
Who was the party who introduced the GST in the place? I'll give you a hint: it wasn't the Liberals.
Who had a 13.5% MST that was hidden and was a cascading tax? Who had a tax that put Canadian manufacturers at a disadvantage? I'll give you a hit: it was not the Progressive Conservatives.
 

danmand

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bbking said:
Conservatives have sold the their particular myth on tax cuts ... instead of raising taxes they just simply do the next best thing and run deficits which are nothing more than tax increases deferred. Liberals over nearly the last 20 years have offered tax cuts with prudent spending policies and yet Conservatives especially in Canada are not called out on being the free spenders they actually are ... the US this time around seems to have gotten the message.

I do have to give them a tip of the hat and admit that conservatives do have balls in selling this lie.


bbk
It is worse than that. By running huge deficits the conservative governments
make certain that government spending will be curtailed after they have left
office.
 
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danmand

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bbking said:
.... sorry Dan this is about the dumbest comment I've seen in years.
You use that comment far too often for it to be credible. :eek:

Have you had your memory tested recently? (or can you not remember? LOL)
 

danmand

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bbking said:
...actually it's amazing that you can keep topping yourself ... so it would appear that your getting dumber by the minute
Although that is logically a possibility, and I will not discount it, the more likely
explanation is that your memory is failing. remember Occams razor?
 

danmand

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bbking said:
Admitting that it is logically possible you are getting dumber by the minute, then contradicting yourself ... damn it's hard to keep up with all your dumb comments.
Don't be modest, You are doing spectacularly in the dumb comment competition.
 

notenufmuff

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capncrunch said:
I always get a kick out of these righties who go on and on and on about how they're 'fiscally responsible' and that debts/deficits are a bit of liberal nastiness.....It happened in Canada under Mulroney. It took so-called 'liberals' like Clinton in the US and Chretien/Martin in Canada to get a handle on government spending.

Chretien/Martin = Caligula and the Court Jester

Blah blah blah, sounds like a lot of Liberals are pissed 'cause their ineffective leader couldnt pull off a majority win. Its simple economics, Liberal governments dont work during recesions. Thank God for the Conservatives.

'nuff said
 

oldjones

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notenufmuff said:
Chretien/Martin = Caligula and the Court Jester

Blah blah blah, sounds like a lot of Liberals are pissed 'cause their ineffective leader couldnt pull off a majority win. Its simple economics, Liberal governments dont work during recesions. Thank God for the Conservatives.

'nuff said
You need to look at your calendar: This 'recession' is just getting under way, back in the nineties, when we last had such a thing, PM Muldoon left poor Kim Campbell holding the empty bag and Chretien took over the Torie's humungous deficit and debt. Until Harper, Martin ran surpluses which he used to pay down the debt. Thanks to Flaherty's tax giveaways the tories may not finish 2008 in the black and certainly won't in 2009. But it's cons who duck out when times are tough.

The two questions for you are:
When do Tory governments ever work?
and
If Liberals are pissed because their leader couldn't pull off a majority win in his first election, are Tories doubly pissed because Harper twice couldn't couldn't pull off a majority?
 

slowpoke

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Compromised said:
Who had a 13.5% MST that was hidden and was a cascading tax? Who had a tax that put Canadian manufacturers at a disadvantage? I'll give you a hit: it was not the Progressive Conservatives.
Here's another hint: That was a long time ago - 1991 to be exact. If we were producing a history of beneficial tax reforms in Canada, Mulroney's replacement of the MST with the GST would be right up there. But we're talking about exactly the opposite.

17 years after Mulroney replaced the MST with the GST, the Liberals of today are advocating that the GST remain more or less intact - ie: they want to leave it alone and cut income taxes instead. Harper is the one who keeps hacking away at the GST which you've so conveniently described as a "good thing"! So are you now ready to denounce Harper for wanting to reduce your precious GST to a mere shadow of its former magnificence? I didn't think so......
 

train

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Hey slowpoke

Weren't you the guy that told me to cut McSquint some slack because I was being unreasonable to expect him to accomplish anything in just 4 short years ?

Now you are jumping on the PM for not dodging a world financial crisis in two months ?

Why the inconsistency there guys ?

PS Maybe he will solve everything by adding a another ministerial post like McSquint. How's that working out ?

Seriously this whole thread is nonsense providing neither original thinking or unique views. It's all a rehash of newspaper stories over the last month - and not even particularly well written ones.

Ask yourselves the simple question - "Would the economic situation be any better if Dion or Layton were in charge? "

If you people will answer that question honestly you would probably also come to the conclusion it's time to shut-up ;)
 
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