Harassment - yes or no?

[sempel]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...es-dismissing-case/ar-BBJnfs5?ocid=spartanntp

A provincial court judge in St. John's has ruled it could be illegal to shout a sexist slur at female reporters, but not in the case of what happened to NTV reporter Heather Gillis last year outside the city dump.

It was never a question of whether Justin Penton hurled the words at Gillis while she was interviewing St. John's Mayor Danny Breen at the Robin Hood Bay waste management facility in April 2017. The issue for the judge was whether or not it constituted a crime in that context.
Gillis reported she was "humiliated, embarrassed and disgusted" by the comments. Breen said it made him uncomfortable.
But Judge Colin Flynn ruled an emotional disturbance does not meet the criteria for a charge of disturbing the peace.
"Something more than emotional upset and a momentary interruption in a conversation is needed to constitute the criminal offence," Flynn wrote in his decision.
Penton did not appear in court on Tuesday for the decision.
Last April, Gillis had just finished interviewing Breen, who was a city councillor at the time, and was following up with a few off-camera questions. Penton drove by in his truck and yelled "F--k her in the p---y" on his way into the dump.

© Heather Gillis/Twitter NTV journalist Heather Gillis snapped this photo of the truck from which Justin Penton yelled obscenities at her.
The phrase is an internet meme made popular in a series of YouTube videos in 2014. Since then, reporters all over North America have been on the receiving end of men yelling it into their cameras. In this case, Penton omitted the word "right," but the judge used the phrases interchangeably in court.
Fed up with it, Gillis waited for the truck to return and snapped a photo of the licence plate.
After posting it on social media, Royal Newfoundland Constabulary Const. Joe Smyth reached out to her and said it may warrant criminal charges if she filed a complaint.
After running the plate number, Smyth paid Penton a visit. He was immediately apologetic and admitted to yelling at Gillis, the court heard.
However, Penton pleaded not guilty, with his lawyer arguing he did not cause a public disturbance.

'My decision on the facts of this case does not mean that these noted words can be said … with impunity.' - Judge Colin Flynn

Prior cases have set a precedent, where an incident must disturb the "ordinary and customary" workings of a public place in order to be considered criminal, the judge's ruling reads.
Flynn said Penton yelling the words at Gillis at the dump — which was closed that day — did not cause any interference with that "ordinary and customary use of the premises."
When Flynn dismissed the charge, Gillis got up and walked out of the courtroom. On the way out, she could be heard saying, "This is ridiculous."

Judge says it's not fair game

Gillis was not available for an interview, but testified in court this was not the first time she had the phrase yelled at her. Breen also said it wasn't the first time he'd heard it yelled while being interviewed.
In his closing remarks, the judge said this doesn't mean people are free to yell it whenever they want and also suggested Canada could add emotional disturbance to the list of what constitutes a public disturbance.
"My decision on the facts of this case does not mean that these noted words can be said to persons, in particular female reporters out doing their jobs, with impunity," Flynn said.
"It very much depends on the circumstances and context of the case whether such words would attract criminal liability. On the facts of this case, they do not."

Came upon this article and I remember when this happened. I'll admit when I first saw the original clips it was funny as hell. Of course, the key was the interviewer was a female and the guy being interviewed was considered a witness/bystander. So the comment was unexpected and since it was live it couldn't be edited. Obviously now you have people yelling it in the background or jumping in front of the camera and yelling it, or in this case a person driving by.

Is it harassment or not?

I think it is if the person is coming up to a reporter and yelling it out again and again and when asked/told to stop, doesn't. In fact, some guy who works for Ontario Hydro got fired (and then rehired I think) after his employer found out from the reporter going public and complaining. But now this reporter is trying to have a guy charged for yelling it while passing by? Can I be brought up on charges if I yelled "You suck" or flip the bird?

 

[bebe]

Tired of everything and everyone trying to be so politically correct. It is so fucking boring and overrated.

 

[managee]

Great story!! It seems like the beginning of an OK Trailer Park Boys episode.

I didn’t know this was a meme, first I’ve heard of it.

I absolutely love the Judge’s decision. Basically, “It’s a dump. You might hear that kind of language if it were open that day.” And probably not a good idea to yell that at her or anyone else in a public park on a Saturday.

Regardless, I’m not sure what you mean by harassment in the tread title. Do you mean criminal harassment or sexual harassment? Either way, only one is a crime, and I truly don’t see how this situation fits either definition, unless Penton was a co-worker of the victim.

The issue here is whether this was or wasn’t a criminal offence under our public disturbance laws. According to the judgement, it was not.

 

[sempel]

Great story!! It seems like the beginning of an OK Trailer Park Boys episode.

I didn’t know this was a meme, first I’ve heard of it.

I absolutely love the Judge’s decision. Basically, “It’s a dump. You might hear that kind of language if it were open that day.” And probably not a good idea to yell that at her or anyone else in a public park on a Saturday.

Regardless, I’m not sure what you mean by harassment in the tread title. Do you mean criminal harassment or sexual harassment? Either way, only one is a crime, and I truly don’t see how this situation fits either definition, unless Penton was a co-worker of the victim.

The issue here is whether this was or wasn’t a criminal offence under our public disturbance laws. According to the judgement, it was not.

A few reporters have claimed it's sexual harassment - that was the case with the Hydro employee. I looked up criminal harassment and it involves the target fearing for their safety even though something physical may not happen.

Either way, is it as much of an issue as females - in this case reporters - make it out to be? I think the biggest point is it has nothing to do with the reporter herself - the guys yelling it are just repeating the line. She is not the target of the saying.

 

[managee]

A few reporters have claimed it's sexual harassment - that was the case with the Hydro employee. I looked up criminal harassment and it involves the target fearing for their safety even though something physical may not happen.

Either way, is it as much of an issue as females - in this case reporters - make it out to be? I think the biggest point is it has nothing to do with the reporter herself - the guys yelling it are just repeating the line. She is not the target of the saying.

“Fuck her in the pussy” seems provocative enough to cause a disturbance in some circumstances.

You don’t get a pass on using the n-word at a black reporter because it was a line you heard on Dave Chappelle.

I’ve known drunk idiots who have gotten public disturbance tickets for saying less offensive things. No matter how funny the meme is, we have public disturbance laws to keep idiots like Penton in-check.

But it’s definitely not criminal harassment, or sexual assault obviously, nor would it be sexual harassment unless they worked together.

 

[thumper18474]

there were instances where women were walking by reporters blurting out
Fuck me right in the pussy.....it was a fad a few years back and then just died out

 

[sempel]

“Fuck her in the pussy” seems provocative enough to cause a disturbance in some circumstances.

You don’t get a pass on using the n-word at a black reporter because it was a line you heard on Dave Chappelle.

I’ve known drunk idiots who have gotten public disturbance tickets for saying less offensive things. No matter how funny the meme is, we have public disturbance laws to keep idiots like Penton in-check.

But it’s definitely not criminal harassment, or sexual assault obviously, nor would it be sexual harassment unless they worked together.

If a person yells it in the background, you shrug it off as idiocy, pure and simple. If they forcefully try to get in front of the camera or accost the reporter, prosecute. Do I think reporters deserve to be harassed? Of course not. But if you are at a hockey game filming the crowd after, there will be some drunk/loud fools and their boorishness goes with the territory. This sounds like overkill - taking it to court. Hell, even giving it a bunch of airtime/publicity probably does more harm than good. No reaction probably serves things better.

I'm waiting to check the mail and find a ticket from somebody complaining I honked at them on the road and they were so upset/offended I need to be charged.

 

[managee]

If a person yells it in the background, you shrug it off as idiocy, pure and simple. If they forcefully try to get in front of the camera or accost the reporter, prosecute. Do I think reporters deserve to be harassed? Of course not. But if you are at a hockey game filming the crowd after, there will be some drunk/loud fools and their boorishness goes with the territory. This sounds like overkill - taking it to court. Hell, even giving it a bunch of airtime/publicity probably does more harm than good. No reaction probably serves things better.

I'm waiting to check the mail and find a ticket from somebody complaining I honked at them on the road and they were so upset/offended I need to be charged.

You seem to want to turn this into something it’s not.

He was in court not because she had been “harassed”, but because he had allegedly caused a public disturbance.

 

[james t kirk]

If I recall correctly, the guy from Hydro never actually said that phrase. He was just a bystander who laughed when some other guy yelled it out. The reporter jumped on him for laughing about it and he got standoffish with her saying that he did find it funny.

That got his ass fired (which I thought was ridiculous) and he had to hire a lawyer and Sue to get his job back.

 

[latinboy]

If I recall correctly, the guy from Hydro never actually said that phrase. He was just a bystander who laughed when some other guy yelled it out. The reporter jumped on him for laughing about it and he got standoffish with her saying that he did find it funny.

Seriously? The buffoon hung around the reporter while she was talking to others, inserted himself into the convo, screeching things like "I think it's fucking hilarious", "I respect it" (referring to FHRITP) and "you're lucky you don't get a vibrator stuck in your ear like they do in England" etc. He's hardly "standoffish".

That got his ass fired (which I thought was ridiculous) and he had to hire a lawyer and Sue to get his job back.

No. He didn't hire a lawyer nor did he sue.

He was a $106K unionized employee that was rehired through arbitration, which included a written apology to the reporter.

I agree the idiot shouldn't have been fired; probably a knee-jerk reaction to the public outrage and media coverage. However Hydro, as do most large private or public sector corporations, have a code of conduct that extends to employee behaviour off-property and/or outside of working hours. And who knows if this was his first violation.

It helped that he was apparently "remorseful" (after he sobered up/was outed as a hydro employee/got fired) plus his job didn't entail any contact with the public.

Rewatch the video. He's the mouthy little twerp in the Arsenal jersey. (I hope his mom kicked his ass lol, I know mine would!).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LKkAL1AEam8