So what...Hitler said the Reich would last 1000 years too. As long as Israel continues it's policies, Hamas will continue to thrive. After this leader, there will be another leader. You cannot run a militant army and give speeches extolling compromise and hope for peaceful co-existance. Even Dubya after 911 said " you are either for us or against us." in times of war, there is little room for compromise.
Hamas will NEVER accept peace (for flub)
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Wow, you can read my mind and that's whats in it?
I expect that this is how you know that Goldstone is lying, really, now that I know your superpowers I'll have to change my approach.
Here, read this...............................
Got it?
So Hamas changes what the want? Big surprise when the peace options change.
Sounds like they are back to asking for the 1967 borders, with the backing of the UN and international law (Geneva conventions).
Now Fuji, is that everything the Arabs want, does that include the end of Israel or just a temporary truce?
I'd like to see you find some evidence somewhere that backs up your crappola.
so we are in agreement the Israelis are and never were interested in a peace deal with the Palestinians?That has to do with demographics.
The Palestinians consider making babies strategically important for their cause, to the point that few decades from now their numbers are going to be more than the Jewish Israelis. That's after counting those "parasitic, unproductive" Haredim who as a group raise their children as many as the Palestinians.
Make no mistake, the Jewish Israelis are fully aware of this trend and until recently they want to make peace with the Palestinians before the reality sinks in, say within 50 years from now. The tragedy is the Palestinians, be the Fatah and Hamas know the Jewish Israelis weakness and instead of trying to make comprehensive, sustainable peace, they like their grandfathers risk their future by betting that through terror and never ending low intensity conflicts, their victory would be "secured", assuming the Jewish Israelis would throw the towel and give in to all of their demand.
Too bad the Palestinians forget their Arab "brothers" had enough of their nonsense and never ending missed opportunities. Until the Iranians meddle the Arab-Israelis conflicts, the Palestinians are pretty much "written off" by the fellow Arab states since they are getting tired to pop up and bail out those losers.
and yes I will agree that their 'Arab brothers" have little invested in them, the Syrians the only real credible slight danger to Israel would dump Hamas out of Damascus within hours of getting the Golan Heights back. Unfortunately that's probably never going to happen seeing that the Knesset passed legislation stating that any Golan handback needs a 2/3 approval from it, failing that a national referendum would be held.
Again proving Israel's nah nah we got this land now and you can't have it back attitude of the bully in the school yard.
Another very good article in Al Jazeera on the peace process today, this one from MJ Rosenberg.
And as if to back up those assertions, the US government does this:
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2010/12/2010121611101496814.html
And as if to back up those assertions, the US government does this:
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2010/12/2010121611101496814.html
As shown in this and other threads in this forum, FD has now become the official clipper for AJ and company or anyone else that might in the slimmest way put forth a useful factoid. He's run out of his own words and falls back on others hoping they'll back his point of view. He's hoping this will minimize fuck ups on his part.
It's not working FD.
It's not working FD.
Actually the Israelis are willing to return Golan Heights back, in exchange of demilitarized borders similar to the Sinai, staffed by the UN peacekeepers and US FMS "compensation" say AWACs, J-STARS since Mount Hermon Observation Post is assumed to be dismantled. The relatively secular Assad regime in Syria did entertain this idea and they made it clear they would honor Israeli's "reasonable" demand.
Ironically Iran and the Palestinians are the ones trying every way to sabotage any agreement between Israel and Syria.
For the Palestinians, they are fully aware the history when Israel made sustainable, durable peace with Egypt and Jordan, those two countries were jumping up for joy to kick the Palestinians out as they no longer have to deal this pain in the butt issue.
Should Syria make similar deal, the PLO would be hard pressed to deal with exile Hamas people and more importantly Israel will not make further concession to the Palestinians. Not cool.
Like it or not, it's a zero sum game and no wonder the Arab Leagues in the past insisted negotiation to Israel as a group, not individual states since they did not and still do not have trust among themselves.
For the Iranians, it's even worse. Any agreement between Israel and Syria will mean Syria again come back to the mainly Sunni Arabs "family". Should that happen, that would inflict a heavy blow to the Iranians since they no longer count on Syria to pop up Hizbullah by default. Plus, the Sunni Iraqis could going forward count on Syria and the Saudis support to counter the de-facto Iranian proxy, the Shia Iraqis currently controlling Iraq.
Not going to be surprised any Syria and Israel agreement is going to be a game changer, at the expense of the Palestinians and the Iranians.
ohhh the Israelis are willing to return Golan Heights, REALLY now???Actually the Israelis are willing to return Golan Heights back, in exchange of demilitarized borders similar to the Sinai, staffed by the UN peacekeepers and US FMS "compensation" say AWACs, J-STARS since Mount Hermon Observation Post is assumed to be dismantled. The relatively secular Assad regime in Syria did entertain this idea and they made it clear they would honor Israeli's "reasonable" demand.
Ironically Iran and the Palestinians are the ones trying every way to sabotage any agreement between Israel and Syria.
For the Palestinians, they are fully aware the history when Israel made sustainable, durable peace with Egypt and Jordan, those two countries were jumping up for joy to kick the Palestinians out as they no longer have to deal this pain in the butt issue.
Should Syria make similar deal, the PLO would be hard pressed to deal with exile Hamas people and more importantly Israel will not make further concession to the Palestinians. Not cool.
Like it or not, it's a zero sum game and no wonder the Arab Leagues in the past insisted negotiation to Israel as a group, not individual states since they did not and still do not have trust among themselves.
For the Iranians, it's even worse. Any agreement between Israel and Syria will mean Syria again come back to the mainly Sunni Arabs "family". Should that happen, that would inflict a heavy blow to the Iranians since they no longer count on Syria to pop up Hizbullah by default. Plus, the Sunni Iraqis could going forward count on Syria and the Saudis support to counter the de-facto Iranian proxy, the Shia Iraqis currently controlling Iraq.
Not going to be surprised any Syria and Israel agreement is going to be a game changer, at the expense of the Palestinians and the Iranians.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/knesset-pushes-golan-heights-referendum-law-1.2474
That must be because you have no answer to the charges, so I take it that you agree that the peace inititiative is being destroyed by AIAPAC.
Al Jazeera is a reputable source, quite often as good or better then what we get here.
Your not paying attention again, but we're use to that. I watch AJ, but it's not on the top of my my list of balanced coverage. Sir David Frost is a regular commentator and many expats from ITV, BBC and SkyNews are on the network. They even have their token Jew with Avi Lewis Ex CBC and he has always been high on my list of balance reporters.
Stop trying to put words in my mouth. You're not good at it.
Not that anyone asked me, but, I think I have to say that flub and notti must live in their own little world. Without a doubt, these two posters have the understanding and ability to understand the written word on a level that has seldom been seen in an educated society. And just in case they don't understand what I just wrote, it's not in a good way.
From Flubber's AJ cut and paste job:
Maybe if they want normal lives they should consider normalizing their relationship with their Israeli neighbour, stop the stupid 60 year losing war, and move on.
If they did that they would very quickly be empowered.
That's a stupid thing to say. They have NOT done everything that has been demanded--specifically, they have not renounced terrorism, they have not renounced war crimes against Israeli civilians, they have not recognized Israel's right to exist. The Palestinians have no power because they insist on fighting a stupid losing 60 year war that has impoverished their own people and turned their lives in to shit.
Maybe if they want normal lives they should consider normalizing their relationship with their Israeli neighbour, stop the stupid 60 year losing war, and move on.
If they did that they would very quickly be empowered.
If you bothered to actually read what you posted, you would see what the rest of the world sees, that Hamas will not live in peace alongside Israel (at least until the Palestinian people decide that peace is better than terrorism).
They have done all of those things over time.
The PLO stopped suicide bombings, signed the Oslo accord which said they'd recognize Israel, and they stopped fighting for a while.
The article is correct.
.
Time to watch the pea under the walnut... The PLO is not Hamas, Hezzbolla , PFLP, or any of the other groups that claim to represent the Palistinian people. The OSlo accord was a nice start but it never reached the finish line because other Palistinian splinter groups did not want to stop .
When the Palistinian people decide to stop fighting and negotiate honestly perhaps they can then move onto normal lives
So plainly "all of those things" would include all of those things:
1. Renounced terrorism
2. Recognized Israel's right to exist
3. Renounced war crimes against Israeli civilians
I await your citations, where have Hamas or Islamic Jihad--the current rulers of Gaza--ever done ANY of those things? I know you don't have any citation and you know you're so completely full of shit.
You do realize the article was dated in 2009 and the Labor Party, the traditional Israeli left wing party that advocate return of the Golan Heights is by now pretty much an also-ran party compared to Likud or Kadima.
Maybe, just maybe the Labor Party and those Israeli pinko kook manage to form a sustainable coalition in the Knesset the idea of returning to the Golan Heights could be revived.
Hamas came about after the PLO agreed to all the above with the Oslo accord, which Netanyahu derailed (as he admits on video).
So after the peaceful plan didn't work, what else did you think might happen?
Nice try but no dice. Hamas came into being BECAUSE OF the Oslo accord. They broke away from the PLO specifically because they did not renounce terrorism, did not recognize Israel's right to exist, and did not renounce war crimes against Israeli civilians. That was their REASON for splitting from the PLO. They started a series of uprising and rockets launches specifically meant to undermine the Oslo peace process because they rejected it.
You fail.
