Why are you so docile in this thread about getting the shot?
...and such a raving lunatic prick in the other one??...
That bothers me, you've wasted my time enough.
Should have just agreed to disagree...
- Douglas
H1N1 question
- Thread starter yahoo40
- Start date
...and such a raving lunatic prick in the other one??...
That bothers me, you've wasted my time enough.
Should have just agreed to disagree...
- Douglas
Actually you didn't.
I gave you references from the US CDC estimating seasonal flu deaths at 35,000 annually per year and from the Canadian equivalent at between 2,000 and 8,000 per year . So its tough to figure out where you are coming from. Are you disputing the US Centre for Desease Control estimates ? I think this is somewhat foolish since they are , perhaps, the world experts on infectious deaseases.
You have provided a study which made some limited conclusions based on data gathered over a 2 month period. I have accepted this study but warned you to limit your own theories to the conclusions of the doctors in the study. You somehow manipulated this study's conclusions in your in your own mind and started to claim that if you are under 65 you are more likely to die from swine flu than seasonal. Simple logic using the CDC estimates for seasonal deaths by age group and average total deaths and grade 3 aritmetic says otherwise.The doctors that did the study avoided that conclusion but you, I guess, feel more qualified than they.
I predicted in May or June that the Canadian death toll would be less than 1,000 by year end. You called me an idiot back then and said that it would be many times that. I think the current reported death toll which stands at 115 at November 5 just about says it all that needs to be said on that subject.
It does seem somehow perverse to be betting on a death toll but if you ever do want to put your money where your mouth is the bet offer of $100to charity still stands.
I would settle , however for you simply stopping the dispensing of medical advice when you have neither the qualifications, track record or judgement to do so.
You don't understand what those numbers mean. I explained to you what they mean, so I am not sure why you still fail to understand what they represent.
I am not "coming from" anywhere, at this point I am simply giving you direct quotes from medical journals that say clear cut things such as the above quote.
I am disputing your wrong interpretation of those numbers.
Why don't you compare the number of confirmed cases last year to this year, from the CDC? Or the estimate from last year and this year, from the CDC?
What you are doing is foolishly trying to compare the estimate with the confirmed cases, apparently unaware that one SHOULD be a few hundred if not a thousand times larger than the other, just as it was last year...
No, at this point I have provided you with about five different studies based on different samples in different countries all of which reached the same conclusion.
You have provided...
NOTHING.
You have yet to cite one single, solitary study.
I gave you yet another study a few messages above, different from the previous one, which was different from the previous previous one, all drawing the same conclusion from different samples.
If I were you I'd be too embarassed to keep posting, I think you should take BR's advice, duck and cover.
You would survive this with more of your reputation intact if you stopped posting, rather than coming out for yet another round of humiliation in which you deny yet another peer reviewed journal article based on nothing more than your own farts.
Fuji & Train
You guys are starting to sound like Mlame and tboy! LOL! The posts are about as long too... (and oddly enough, Fuji has adopted Mlame's style of breaking up the posts into smaller sections...)
Wonder what ever happened to that guy....
You guys are starting to sound like Mlame and tboy! LOL! The posts are about as long too... (and oddly enough, Fuji has adopted Mlame's style of breaking up the posts into smaller sections...)
Wonder what ever happened to that guy....
Sure, it's easy to lay a bet when there's no way to collect. Why not make it a $Miilion, maybe you get a date for that price. (see relative thread)
... but it's more difficult to read and comprehend for me.You guys are starting to sound like Mlame and tboy! LOL! The posts are about as long too... (and oddly enough, Fuji has adopted Mlame's style of breaking up the posts into smaller sections...)
I can make it nice and short:You guys are starting to sound like Mlame and tboy! LOL! The posts are about as long too... (and oddly enough, Fuji has adopted Mlame's style of breaking up the posts into smaller sections...)
Wonder what ever happened to that guy....
http://www.microbeworld.org/index.php?option=com_jlibrary&view=article&id=1350
Train I don't want your bullshit opinion, cite something.
I don't understand what 'being like me' means...
I agree in the beginning I made some asshole-ish remarks...that is true.
But ever since you wanted to debate with me, you've become the unbalanced prick... (The H1N1 Czar). Essentially 'othering' individuals who choose not to get the vaccine.
Do the people on this thread truly know your stance?? Seems pretty two faced to me...
- Douglas
It shouldn't be- One person is persisting in spite of all evidence pointing to the contrary with the notion that the swine flu is significantly less dangerous than the normal flu for adults. (Even if the lethality is about the same or marginally higher for adults, there's a big gap between that and significantly less on a per capita basis. Layer on top of that the greatly increased chance of serious respiratory problem, and there is a 'real' public health issue.)
I'm not terribly likely to get the shot because I'm dealing in the real of two utter marginalities. Marginality #1 a flu (swine or otherwise) shot doing something bad. Or the (in every credible likelihood) more dangerous Marginality #2 that the flu (swine or otherwise) will kill or hospitalize me. Layer on to that the fact that I just got over the flu, I'm not in regular contact with any at risk group, and that I have a well stocked apartment and sick days, and I'm pretty underwhelmed.
You seem to be the only one who doesn't know my stand, my point, or my opinion in any of the H1N1 threads.
Short of writing in 'Dick & Jane' style I don't know how else I could try to make it more clear.
BTW, what does 'othering' mean?
You seemed to sum up my objections and focus in your 2nd sentence and I think you're confusing the two threads. From there it was easy. You gave the material to work with.
I understand the fear that something bad 'might' happen from the shot but it's been touched on in past threads/posts that the chances of a bad reaction, illness or death are far less by a factor of 100x+ I think, and your more likely to be stuck by lightening than to become ill or die.
Those odds make me feel better and I really love thunderstorms and go out in them ll the time, not on a golf course or in a boat thought. I'm not that stupid. My chances are slim of getting sick are slim my age, job, life profile and life habits lower the chances of me getting a flu, but others around me aren't so, and that why I get the shots.
You increase you defenses against certain diseases by doing simple things.
Wash you hands more often, simple. Even when you enter a washroom.
Gargle with warm salt water, simple.
Get some rest, simple.
Because I use my hands in many unknown environments and they're often dirty,I've been sneezing into my arm for years, simple.
Don't use hot-air hand dryers in washrooms, they're filthy, simple. Use paper towels.
Carry towelettes.
Because I've travelled in many 3rd world countries, when in country, I've also learned not to accept anything offered to you with the left hand, without great care, simple.
There are a lot of fears out there, but it's what is 'said' too often because of those fears that I really object to.
OM, if you just got over the flu and had it ID'd as such by medical people, great, now you have good protection for this season, but it's not perfect. Just be aware that so many thing exhibit the same symptoms. That's what makes early superficial diagnosis difficult.
Unless your flu has been laboratory confirmed as H1N1, once recovered you should get the H1N1 vaccine.
I actually agree with you. That's why I always specify that it's a false equivalency between the risk of the shot and the risk of the flu. (We have a generation of info on the non-augmented flu shot at this point... and there is pretty substantial info on the augmented flu shot.) But the simple truth is that a chronic fear of the flu (even the swine variety at this point) and fear of the shot are both 'irrational' for otherwise healthy adults. That leads to a 'meh factor', especially if you aren't a strong transmission risk to those who are at risk. Which is not to say the shot is bad, it's more to say that I'm lazy, prepared at home, have sick days, I'm not much of a risk to other people, and I've already had the flu so I'm not going to stand in a line or lose one minute of sleep about it...
The bigger fear should be of the cost of crowded respiratory wards. I know a male respiratory therapist and right now he's awaiting training on machines that work, but have been retired, and they are having 'bed full' issues. (He's described most of those in respiratory distress as 'the usual suspects'. He's also said that all hospital staff has been told point blank 'not to talk to media'. He's as apathetic about H1N1 as I am, but he apparently got the shot for work. He said the Adjavented (sp) shot did a real number on his arm compared to the unaugmented 'normal' flu shot he's had in previous years. That's the 'beer talk' version of things anyway.)
edit: Though I do think it is a good idea to have the capacity to nationally deploy a vaccine to all citizens in short order. It's the Zombie Apocalypse thought exercise on a national scale.
This is absolutely the fear. A fairly large number of people have been hospitalized by H1N1 but so far most of them have recovered--thanks to intensive care treatment involving ventilators.
If the number of cases jumps up dramatically the mortality rate will jump as well, it will not be proportional to the number of cases: In a big outbreak many people who shold get intensive care treatment including a ventilator will not get that treatment and so have a much lower chance of survival.
This is exactly why the public health agency wants to vaccinate a lot of people, especially the high risk people: To keep them out of the ICU, so there ae enough ICU's available for everyone who needs one.
Right on the Head, Fuji.
I see another use for the empty factories and office buildings and then there's the medical staff shortage. Time to dust out the sanatariums.
North Bay ran smoothly, but they had to have retired medical people called in as well as nursing school students under supervision to staff the clinics. Pssst, it worked like charm.
Your quote from another thread...
My position, if you haven't got it by now, is get the fucking shots. Is that clear enough?
Again, I never said quarantine, but you might find yourself socially quarantined by others when people around get sick and some find out you didn't get the shot, their choice not mine. Ever noticed now how people jump when another person coughs these days.
Selfish and ecocentric were what you concluded. Wearing a badge that's says 'I'M AN IDIOT'' is a thought though. You are selfish when what you choice can effect others around you without their saying it's OK, just like the smokers example.
Here is some literature on the 'Other', or 'Othering'...
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other?wasRedirected=true
With all your social work experience with 'indigenous peoples', I'm surprised you don't already understand this concept. Would you like me to spoon feed you??
Essentially, you are 'othering' individuals who do not get the vaccine, and have deemed them 'selfish', 'egocentric', and 'a hazard'. With such a closed minded approach, I would hate to have you as my social worker, doctor, or nurse...(whatever the hell you do).
Also, it seems as though you are trying to justify your knowledge on this matter by 'up-talking' your experiences with 'indigenous peoples', and 'Third World' countries...
I mean what the fuck was that anecdote regarding your awareness to not receive anything from someone's left hand??...
Firstly, what does that have anything to do with H1N1??
Secondly, what if they were left-handed?? You might be missing out on something great?? Are you 'othering' left-handed people too??
Get over yourself, and your 'Public Health Messiah/Selfless Steward of the Earth' persona. It's affected and annoying.
Don't you think we should agree to disagree and move on??
-Douglas
I'll try and use 'othering' the next time I'm at my local and see what happens, NOT.
My eyes glazed over after 'continental philosophy'.
Who said I was a social worker? Are you reading the same post?
Nice Cut&Paste from the other thread, but I fail to see the relevance as you didn't follow it up with some pearls of wisdom or editorial. I still do stand by my comments though.
My eyes glazed over after 'continental philosophy'.
Who said I was a social worker? Are you reading the same post?
Nice Cut&Paste from the other thread, but I fail to see the relevance as you didn't follow it up with some pearls of wisdom or editorial. I still do stand by my comments though.
