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Gun violence article

Cobster

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Got this in an email this morning from a friend.



End the blather

By MICHAEL COREN
Another murder in a Canadian black community, this time the victim being 11-years old. And it took only moments for white liberal politicians to blame law-abiding handgun owners and, yes, the United States of America.
Handguns have to be banned, they cried, and American gun laws are too soft. This has to be a first. Canadian leftists blaming a murder in Toronto on President George W. Bush. Orders of Canada and CBC T-shirts all round.
Such drivel does not, however, explain how Norway, with one of the highest rates of gun ownership in the world, manages to have one of the lowest crime rates.
Or how Israel, a society where guns are extraordinarily common, has so few criminal shootings.
Or how Britain with some of the most stringent gun control laws in the world has a violent crime rate that is virtually out of control.
It's too late to play silly games any more. If handguns are the cause of all this we have to ask why there are so few shootings in, for example, the Dutch, Ukrainian, Irish, Portuguese, Korean, Hindu or African communities. Why, in fact, there are so few shootings in any community outside of the West Indian and specifically Jamaican.
Oh Lord, the man must be mad. Silence him, stop him, call in a Human Rights Commission before it's too late!
Yet there is nothing racist about seeking answers that might save the lives of young black men and much that is racist about refusing to ask basic questions for fear that politically correct credentials be damaged.
If our leaders were braver they might admit that matriarchy is a fundamental theme of Jamaican society and the levels of fatherless families in the country's urban centres are staggering. This culture has been transferred to Canada. Just as it has to other Jamaican diaspora communities, which experience similar rates of violent crime.
It might be comforting to see every young single mom as a saint who works three jobs and is devoted to her children, but positive caricatures are just as unhelpful as are negative ones.
There are such mothers of course, but also young women who party late and work little. Who find themselves pregnant as teenagers and mothers of several children, perhaps from different fathers, by the time they are adults.
Such problems occur to various extents in all communities, but when the only male role model is the gangster on the street corner with the loud car, loud clothes and loud gun, the chances of leading a law-abiding life are minimal.
Made even harder by a dysfunctional obsession with disrespect.
A gesture or a harmless comment can indicate lack of respect and the need to shoot. Just last week in London, England, three young black men shot a doorman point blank in the face three times because he politely asked them not to smoke. Hard to believe that this was the result of oppression, racism and lack of government programs. Especially as the victim was himself black.
Poverty? Spare me. It is deeply insulting to assume that the poor are criminals.
Also ridiculous to assume that there is genuine, crippling poverty in a country with free education, health care and subsidized housing.
If we care we will halt the platitudes and try to help. No more patronizing blather, no more false scapegoats. If we care we will risk being called names. If we care.
 

Mongrel4u

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May 27, 2005
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in a word... CULTURE

The lack of a strong sense of culture is a biggie here. There is a lack of West Indian culture and whatever they do adopt as a "culture" is fucked up. I've had people justify the "fatherless family" as part of their "culture"; which I refure to beleive. Mind you thats some warped "culture" that they adopted themselves.

Combine the above with the fact that Jamaica as a country is a very lawless place...

bad combination as one feeds the other



I'm half Jamaican and I dont understand the Jamaican side of the family at all
 

Moraff

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Hope you don't mind if I only reply once to your three posts canada-man. :)

The prevalence of handguns does not go hand in hand with increased crime. You cite that Japan has banned handguns and has a low crime rate. How then do you explain that Norway has a huge gun population and very low crime. Or that Britain, who's anti-gun to the extreme, has a huge crime problem?

While I hesitate to agree with the author that it's purely a racial thing. It is obvious that the gun-laws are not significantly part of the problem here, it's definitely something cultural.
 

canada-man

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computer was giving problems

the U.S has the highest homicide rates and gun crime rates in the first world and guns are widely available

banning guns does not necessary lead to a higher crime right

and there are no stats to prove that Jamaicans are doing most of the shootings. Jamaican immigration to canada has been declining since the late 1990s
 

Mongrel4u

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canada-man said:
computer was giving problems

the U.S has the highest homicide rates and gun crime rates in the first world and guns are widely available

banning guns does not necessary lead to a higher crime right

and there are no stats to prove that Jamaicans are doing most of the shootings. Jamaican immigration to canada has been declining since the late 1990s
No theres no Stat proving that Jamaicans are doing most of the shootings but at the same time theres no stat indicating otherwise. The majority of black people in Canada are of West Indian decent and I'm willing to bet that these visually black people we read about are of West Indian decent. Now just to re iterate I believe its a combination of a class and cultural problem, not a race thing.

Further, guns are not positively correlated to crime; theres proof of that. Guns are just a tool....if they ban guns they'll just continue to get them hot or just turn to some other means (knives, bludgeoning tools....).
The problem goes much deeper.
 

Never Compromised

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canada-man said:
and there are no stats to prove that Jamaicans are doing most of the shootings. Jamaican immigration to canada has been declining since the late 1990s
That is because collecting race stats is not in vogue. Besides, it is not a "Jamaican" problem, as much as it is a poor black gansta wann be problem.

Legalize drugs, throw anyone caught illegally trading in weapons in jail FOR LIFE, and cut off the balls of any gang banger caught with a gun, and watch what happens to the murder rate.
 

LancsLad

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Jan 15, 2004
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Its culture, the demographic mix and lax laws that are the root cause not the guns themselves.

I've said before that growing up we had many guns in the house as did most of my friends. The fact that those guns were there didn't compel us to go out and shoot people. Perhaps todays guns hold some magical power of persuasion over people that mind controls them to shoot or MAYBE its the people themselves.

Mongrel4u makes a good point. Our politically correct system here does not compile and release statistics on crime by race like thay do in the US, so there are no "true" stats but if one was to look at the TPS website , as I do, you would see that a pattern of commonality exists in the majority of the shooters demographic. ( both shooter and victim)

It was said that Norway and Sweden with a plentitude of weapons do not have the same murder rate as we do. There is a vast difference between the essentially homogeneous population of those countries and our Toronto version of the " Canadian Mosaic". I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that this difference has something to do with it. It is not simply a colour issue but a belief and value system that comes into play. The bleeding hearts can construct as many basketball courts and community centres as they want but until values change, behavior wont.


Flame away lieberal deniers but the evidence is there.
 

wikiwild

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Feb 29, 2004
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LancsLad said:
Its culture, the demographic mix and lax laws that are the root cause not the guns themselves.

I've said before that growing up we had many guns in the house as did most of my friends. The fact that those guns were there didn't compel us to go out and shoot people. Perhaps todays guns hold some magical power of persuasion over people that mind controls them to shoot or MAYBE its the people themselves.

Mongrel4u makes a good point. Our politically correct system here does not compile and release statistics on crime by race like thay do in the US, so there are no "true" stats but if one was to look at the TPS website , as I do, you would see that a pattern of commonality exists in the majority of the shooters demographic. ( both shooter and victim)

It was said that Norway and Sweden with a plentitude of weapons do not have the same murder rate as we do. There is a vast difference between the essentially homogeneous population of those countries and our Toronto version of the " Canadian Mosaic". I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that this difference has something to do with it. It is not simply a colour issue but a belief and value system that comes into play. The bleeding hearts can construct as many basketball courts and community centres as they want but until values change, behavior wont.


Flame away lieberal deniers but the evidence is there.
Given that it is a cultural problem, would it not make sense to take the guns out of the equation rather than risk culture 'misusing' the guns?

I mean, when's the last time you felt the need to form a militia and overthrow the government?
 

LancsLad

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wikiwild said:
Given that it is a cultural problem, would it not make sense to take the guns out of the equation rather than risk culture 'misusing' the guns?

I mean, when's the last time you felt the need to form a militia and overthrow the government?

I feel the need on a daily basis. Not joking actually, might make for a nice change.


Why should the current bad apples ruin the gun ownership situation for the ones who are not wannbe gangsta thugs???
 

wikiwild

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LancsLad said:
Why should the current bad apples ruin the gun ownership situation for the ones who are not wannbe gangsta thugs???
Because owning a gun is not important.. i'm sure you'll get over it. Reducing gun violence is.much more important. I get the whole addressing cultural values etc, but I would think we'd want to explore all avenues of remediation.
 

LancsLad

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wikiwild said:
Because owning a gun is not important.. i'm sure you'll get over it. Reducing gun violence is.much more important. I get the whole addressing cultural values etc, but I would think we'd want to explore all avenues of remediation.


I don't want to explore any damned thing.

I would excise the infection from the body rather than penalize all the body because the infection occured.

Please be advised that you seem to have that lieberal rose glasses disease in its most advanced form.

.
 

dcbogey

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wikiwild said:
Because owning a gun is not important.. i'm sure you'll get over it. Reducing gun violence is.much more important. I get the whole addressing cultural values etc, but I would think we'd want to explore all avenues of remediation.
Owning a gun may not be important to you but it is to me and a few million other Canadians. And no, I won't get over it.
 

wikiwild

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dcbogey said:
Owning a gun may not be important to you but it is to me and a few million other Canadians. And no, I won't get over it.
So you want to own a gun THAT badly, that you put it on the same level as Freedom of speech and expression and movement, congregation, etc?

Well, I guess just because it sounds absolutely ABSURD doesn't mean its not true and valid, so lease tell me why. I can't, for the life of me, understand WHAT could be so great about owning guns... ?

And don't tell me it doesn't matter and that you don't have to justify your love for firearms.
 

LancsLad

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wikiwild said:
So you want to own a gun THAT badly, that you put it on the same level as Freedom of speech and expression and movement, congregation, etc?

Well, I guess just because it sounds absolutely ABSURD doesn't mean its not true and valid, so lease tell me why. I can't, for the life of me, understand WHAT could be so great about owning guns... ?

And don't tell me it doesn't matter and that you don't have to justify your love for firearms.


We do not have freedom of speech in Canada.
 

wikiwild

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Feb 29, 2004
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LancsLad said:
I don't want to explore any damned thing.
Excellent argument, well done.

I would excise the infection from the body rather than penalize all the body because the infection occured.
Much better. This assumes that banning guns is a penalty. What makes you think it 'penalizes' anyone?

Please be advised that you seem to have that lieberal rose glasses disease in its most advanced form.
Please be advised that it is called 'Pragmatism'. But you may call it rose glasses if you like.
 

wikiwild

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Feb 29, 2004
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LancsLad said:
We do not have freedom of speech in Canada.
Is that just rhetoric or do you actually think we do not have freedom of expression?

The charter of human rights and freedoms gaurantees "Freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;"... speech counts as one of those.
 
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