Guilty verdicts in 2008 Brass Rail sidewalk shooting

[Aardvark154]

Did you see the video tape? if not I suggest you watch it:

True the bouncers don't act with great delicacy. However, the problem with such tapes is they don't show what happened before hand, was not the testimony that they were behaving like real jerks inside. If they were then I'd agree with Oracle, if not then Fuji. I can't make an intelligent statement based just on this tape without all the other evidence - and that is what the Jury and the Crown had.

Further, I know I’m beating a dead horse, but you shouldn’t draw a pistol unless you are ready to, and feel legally justified in using deadly force (and how on earth would either one of them see that as being so), you shouldn’t drink and then pull out a firearm, and how would Edward Paredes ever possibly justify or see as prudent firing a round in downtown Toronto to “scare the bouncers”, even if they were behaving like jerks?

 

[nottyboi]

True the bouncers don't act with great delicacy. However, the problem with such tapes is they don't show what happened before hand, was not the testimony that they were behaving like real jerks inside. If they were then I'd agree with Oracle, if not then Fuji. I can't make an intelligent statement based just on this tape without all the other evidence - and that is what the Jury and the Crown had.

Further, I know I’m beating a dead horse, but you shouldn’t draw a pistol unless you are ready to, and feel legally justified in using deadly force (and how on earth would either one of them see that as being so), you shouldn’t drink and then pull out a firearm, and how would Edward Paredes ever possibly justify or see as prudent firing a round in downtown Toronto to “scare the bouncers”, even if they were behaving like jerks?

There is no denying the inbecilic stupidity of the shooter. he said he took his pistol because he was robbed of an Ipod at gunpoint.. so what. Was he prepared to kill over an iPod? Also I have no idea why any gun permit would allow possesion of a 9mm semi-auto. If you want to do sharp shooting with a pistol you can use one of those single shot .22 that are designed specifically for sharp shooting. Of course living next to the USA, gun control is a bit of a farce.

 

[The Oracle]

Looked to me like excessive force, they were shoved to to ground even after they were outside the premises. Perhaps the investigation showed that not to be the case. But to me the bouncers only had the right to remove them from the premises. In either case a man was killed, but those two scumbags will have a long time to think about it.

When removing someone by force it is necessary to push them clear of you before re-entering inside.

Failure to do so will sometime result in attempted punch or a kick.

If you watch the tape Mr. Knox pushes the combatant and immediately goes back inside.

If he wanted to really hurt the customer he could easily picked him up and smashed him to the ground. He didn't.

I was a little worried at first when you said to watch the video as I had only heard of the incident from one of the guys on the tape and was afraid maybe he had underplayed their role.

But it was exactly how he had described it to me.

If your asked to leave by the guys on that tape believe me they will give you every chance to leave with your dignity intact but if you don't comply then thats a different story.

In the business it's funny, when your ejected someone they always put up the most resistance at the doorway threshold.

And notice what the customer did once he got back up.

Yep,tried to get right back inside.

So really who's provoking who at this time.

 

[Aardvark154]

I have no idea why any gun permit would allow possesion of a 9mm semi-auto.

I'd choose 45 ACP over 9mm any day of the week.

 

[fuji]

I have no idea what happened inside the bar with these two. All I can say is that I have witnessed personally a pattern of behavior by Brass Rail staff that leaves me completely unsurprised that it eventually ended in tragedy for someone. There have been MANY threads on terb over the years about obnoxious, aggressive behavior by Brass Rail bouncers.

I have never seen the Brass Rail staff do anything actually illegal, what I have seen them do is enforce their rules extremely aggressively, almost as though they want to provoke an escalation by patrons so that they can use additional force. They appear to get a kick out of it.

That doesn't make them criminals, but it probably does open them up to a lawsuit by the victim's family.

 

[oldjones]

Anyone who judges he can draw parallels between two completely different and unrelated acts and call them equal :
a) is using sensationalism to drive his agenda of what he feels should be societies norms
b) lacks the ability to apply reasonable judgment and compromise. A glass of wine or two beer with a dinner is not the same thing a pulling a trigger on a crowded street corner. In your strange world it is the same thing
c) is far to self assured that he knows best.




It has a whole lot to do with Stats
Numbers do not lie, while people attach emotion and preconceived ideals when making self-righteous proclamation's such as one you just made

I'm drawing parallels between stupidities, not the acts that follow. You are talking about acts w/o considering the decision making. Stats do the same, so they'd be relevant to your point (had you one to make, beyond the ad hominem rant) but not to mine.

If a judge who was a thief said stealing was a negligeable crime there would be howls of outrage, but when a drinker judges she's sober enough to drive many—who likely do it themselves—turn a blind eye. Stupid, criminal decision-making. Like carrying and imagining it'll never get pulled, nor used if it is pulled.