GTA massage parlour busts
- Thread starter Arfur
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We know the onus is on us to take the usual reasonable procautions. Is the place licensed?? Is the license real and current? How many girls have been hired since the lincense?? Are they legal? Fake ID??zydeco said:Actually boo and BigBlack, it IS up to you to make sure you are not dealing with underage girls. Just try to rely on your stated reasoning as a defence - and see how far you get.
That's why I feel sorry for the guy that was busted (if he indeed had no idea she was underage). Carding girls can cause a lot of problems. For one thing it can be fake, and you're screwed. Secondly, she might thing you're a cop and give the worst straight down the line massage ever, leaving Mr. Happy frowning. It would just suck all around. Carding all the dancers befoere I see them go up onstage at an Sc would be worse yet.
I never said I'd use my reasoning as a defense, or try for that matter. For the last time this thread isn't about legal defenses as of yet, and nobody has offered any.
BBLACK
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This is a good thing...
Don't have time right now to read the report on CP24.com or others or to comment as much as I would like to. But I will say this. If in fact as I heard on BT this morning their purpose in these raids to get to the underage girls and others who are being forced into working then that's all good. The By-law officer stated on TV they did not want to close places down nor was this an attack on MPs to close down the sex industry. Personally I don't care how much manpower and raids it takes... if they get even just one underage girl and are able to help her and protect her... if they get just one lousy pimp who is forcing girls to work... then it is all worth it. As far as what effect it will have being in the news etc... like usual... everybody will forget about it in a couple days. The headlines next week will be something about more broken promises and nobody will even remember this entire affair at all.
More later... VERY busy today.
NiteHwk
Don't have time right now to read the report on CP24.com or others or to comment as much as I would like to. But I will say this. If in fact as I heard on BT this morning their purpose in these raids to get to the underage girls and others who are being forced into working then that's all good. The By-law officer stated on TV they did not want to close places down nor was this an attack on MPs to close down the sex industry. Personally I don't care how much manpower and raids it takes... if they get even just one underage girl and are able to help her and protect her... if they get just one lousy pimp who is forcing girls to work... then it is all worth it. As far as what effect it will have being in the news etc... like usual... everybody will forget about it in a couple days. The headlines next week will be something about more broken promises and nobody will even remember this entire affair at all.
More later... VERY busy today.
NiteHwk
It HAS to be up to the customer to avoid these things, even though that'll be tough and difficult.
Carding MPA's is not a viable option, though. I doubt many MPA's want to tell you their real name, let alone let you have a look at their ID. A drivers license even has a home address on it--they're not going to show it to you. They risk their own safety if they do.
Still, it HAS to be customers who take responsibility for this. All the police can do is what they did last night. So long as there's money to be made from it, there will be incalls willing to use underage and "sex slave" workers--the pimps who are profiting from it aren't going to stop while there's still profit to be made, etc.
I don't know, but I bet the guy who got charged went looking for the youngest looking girl with the highest mileage for the cheapest price. I bet he went into some place that obviously didn't look very reputable to get it, and now he's charged. He took a chance, and he lost the bet. You guys who are complaining have all pretty much admitted that you're willing to take the chance too--you whine about not being able to ID girls as if that gets you off the hook: at the end of the day, YOU TOOK THE CHANCE that she was underage--you go in there knowing that you don't really know.
Maybe you have no way to card the girls, and maybe you shouldn't even be able to do that. But you sure as hell can choose where you go: you don't have to go to some skanky hole looking for the cheapest price and highest mileage for the youngest looking girl. You could reduce your chances by sticking to reputable places. You could ask the place what they do to make sure the girls are legal. You could exchange notes with other terbites as to whether or not the place seemed to be OK this way. You could demand that the owners post on terb what their policy is, and stick to the places that are trustworthy and reputable. You might not get the highest mileage for the lowest price with the youngest girl, but you'd help put out of business the people who are willing to exploit other people to supply that.
At the end of the day it IS your responsibility: nobody else can really solve this problem. Only you. The police are going to continue what they're doing until the industry cleans itself up on its own and the problem gets solved--that's where you come in.
Carding MPA's is not a viable option, though. I doubt many MPA's want to tell you their real name, let alone let you have a look at their ID. A drivers license even has a home address on it--they're not going to show it to you. They risk their own safety if they do.
Still, it HAS to be customers who take responsibility for this. All the police can do is what they did last night. So long as there's money to be made from it, there will be incalls willing to use underage and "sex slave" workers--the pimps who are profiting from it aren't going to stop while there's still profit to be made, etc.
I don't know, but I bet the guy who got charged went looking for the youngest looking girl with the highest mileage for the cheapest price. I bet he went into some place that obviously didn't look very reputable to get it, and now he's charged. He took a chance, and he lost the bet. You guys who are complaining have all pretty much admitted that you're willing to take the chance too--you whine about not being able to ID girls as if that gets you off the hook: at the end of the day, YOU TOOK THE CHANCE that she was underage--you go in there knowing that you don't really know.
Maybe you have no way to card the girls, and maybe you shouldn't even be able to do that. But you sure as hell can choose where you go: you don't have to go to some skanky hole looking for the cheapest price and highest mileage for the youngest looking girl. You could reduce your chances by sticking to reputable places. You could ask the place what they do to make sure the girls are legal. You could exchange notes with other terbites as to whether or not the place seemed to be OK this way. You could demand that the owners post on terb what their policy is, and stick to the places that are trustworthy and reputable. You might not get the highest mileage for the lowest price with the youngest girl, but you'd help put out of business the people who are willing to exploit other people to supply that.
At the end of the day it IS your responsibility: nobody else can really solve this problem. Only you. The police are going to continue what they're doing until the industry cleans itself up on its own and the problem gets solved--that's where you come in.
Nobody said this! Can you read??? This thread isn't about defenses! I was feeling sorry for a poor guy ( if indeed he thought she was of age) that could be many of us. A few idiots, like yourself left the hooked on phonics package unwrapped last Christmas and have invented the whole defense idea. Nobody advocated that.gala said:you whine about not being able to ID girls as if that gets you off the hook: at the end of the day, YOU TOOK THE CHANCE that she was underage--you go in there knowing that you don't really know.
BBLACK
BigBlack: I never talked about legal defenses, you have me mixed up with someone else. I said that customers are the only ones who can solve this problem, that you should avoid places unless they are reputable, and that it's your own fault if you don't.
Checking that the place is licensed is a great way to check that it's reputable. Posting warnings on terb about licensed places that still aren't reputable would also be a good idea.
Checking that the place is licensed is a great way to check that it's reputable. Posting warnings on terb about licensed places that still aren't reputable would also be a good idea.
Ok so you're saying we can't card them....yet the onus is on us right? Stick to a side. How else can we figure out their age? We can't depend on the mp (even licensed) so the onus falls on us again. You think the crooked ones won't claim their girls are legit, and have forged documents with legal ages? Can we look at their licenses? Call the city inspector? Do a DNA check and call up CSIS to be sure?gala said:It HAS to be up to the customer to avoid these things, even though that'll be tough and difficult.
Carding MPA's is not a viable option, though. I doubt many MPA's want to tell you their real name, let alone let you have a look at their ID. A drivers license even has a home address on it--they're not going to show it to you. They risk their own safety if they do.
Ya you don't know. Why would an underaged girl charge the cheapest price. The escort owners / mp ownersknowingly dealing in this tend to charge higher prices because they are rare and in demand. You know about the mileage? Why would a younger girl give more mileage then others? You ASSume a whole lot and know nothing.I don't know, but I bet the guy who got charged went looking for the youngest looking girl with the highest mileage for the cheapest price.
I bet he went into some place that obviously didn't look very reputable to get it, and now he's charged. He took a chance, and he lost the bet.
Yet another one of your throw in the dark bets. You know which place he went to?
I'm not willing to take that chance. Who the hell said they are? A serious charge, my government job down the tubes? Where do you get this from? I'm willing to call you an idiot for yet another stupid assumption.You guys who are complaining have all pretty much admitted that you're willing to take the chance too--
You don't even know if the lace was cheap, or how old the girl looked. She could look 25 for all you know. Skanky? Are girls that don't work in the highest end places Skanky?Maybe you have no way to card the girls, and maybe you shouldn't even be able to do that. But you sure as hell can choose where you go: you don't have to go to some skanky hole looking for the cheapest price and highest mileage for the youngest looking girl.
Oh ya. So Tracy lords can fool the world as a 15 year old, and you Gala detective will ask an owner if his place is legit. They all say yes to that you idiot! Can you tell if a license is legit? Can you tell if the mpa's licenses are legit? Do you call the license inspector to ensure this? There's a reasonable line after which you aren't at fault. it ain't ALL YOU as you put it. If it was we'd all be cooked.You could reduce your chances by sticking to reputable places. You could ask the place what they do to make sure the girls are legal. You could exchange notes with other terbites as to whether or not the place seemed to be OK this way.
BBLACK
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All the places I go to are licensed. Many offer fs, bbj, golden showers, ect...and are full of foreign girls new to the country. To post warnings you need proof. Your many assumptions could rock a legit owner out of business.gala said:
Checking that the place is licensed is a great way to check that it's reputable. Posting warnings on terb about licensed places that still aren't reputable would also be a good idea.
BBLACK
BigBlack, you keep on whining and bitching like there wasn't anything you could do about it. Either you don't think there's a problem that needs solving, or you don't think you have any responsibility to help solve it. You pick through everything I said looking for some excuse not to take some responsibility for this yourself.
So far you have never responded to my point: Customers have to take responsibility for this. Nobody else really can.
Check that the place is licensed. Check what other people think about it on TERB. Talk to the owner and look it over to get some further idea about it. Report here or even to the police if you suspect a girl is underage or not. There is a lot you can do.
If people did more of that there wouldn't be such a problem, and the police wouldn't be raiding places and making life stressful for all the honest people.
I really don't like people who whine and bitch and think that nothing is their responsibility.
So far you have never responded to my point: Customers have to take responsibility for this. Nobody else really can.
Check that the place is licensed. Check what other people think about it on TERB. Talk to the owner and look it over to get some further idea about it. Report here or even to the police if you suspect a girl is underage or not. There is a lot you can do.
If people did more of that there wouldn't be such a problem, and the police wouldn't be raiding places and making life stressful for all the honest people.
I really don't like people who whine and bitch and think that nothing is their responsibility.
To a reasonable level it is. You can't "make sure" for sure.zydeco said:Quite apart from the moral issues that have disturbed some here - Actually boo and BigBlack, it IS up to you to make sure you are not dealing with underage girls. Just try to rely on your stated reasoning as a defence - and see how far you get.
BBLACK
You know BigBlack - reading through this thread IMO the only absolute certainty comes from Pallydin when he says - it's a complex topic and not one that is black and white. Although I'm sure you're a guy who is vehemently against involving underaged girls or so called sex slaves in all of this, it seems as though your initial sympathies might have been with the fellow who was caught with one. Sounds like that has disturbed a few members out there. Either way, I'm not sure I understand the necessity for the belligerent tone of your posts. It's just a discussion.
gala said:BigBlack, you keep on whining and bitching like there wasn't anything you could do about it. Either you don't think there's a problem that needs solving, or you don't think you have any responsibility to help solve it. You pick through everything I said looking for some excuse not to take some responsibility for this yourself.
Ok, you worthless idiot. Now I'm getting tired of this. If I'm whining and bitching aren't you doing the same? It's not the issues anymore, it's your stupidity. I do think there is a problem, and recognize that I have SOME REASONABLE duty to check for a license. Period.I'm not looking for an excuse NOT to take responsibility ( your 2 choices are both inclusive, you fool). I pick through what you say to point out clearly how incredibly stupid you and your clueless assumptions are. Even you admit you haven't a clue, but that doesn't stop your dumb posts.
I have responded to your point. I take reasonable responsibility. This has been repeated about 20 times although you seem to miss it each time! Need glasses?So far you have never responded to my point: Customers have to take responsibility for this. Nobody else really can.
I've been around the game quite a while . I do all these things. I wouldn't report anything to police UNLESS I HAVE PROOF, YOU IDIOT! You make a ton of clueless assumptions and treat them like FACT! I'm NOT going to CALL THE COPS on half the sp and mp's in the city because they have girls that look underage!Check that the place is licensed. Check what other people think about it on TERB. Talk to the owner and look it over to get some further idea about it. Report here or even to the police if you suspect a girl is underage or not. There is a lot you can do.
You say call the cops if you suspect the girls are underage or not?? So call the cops on all the girls?? Those under and over age? Are you insane? Are you serious? Get off the crack!
If people followed your plan of attack by calling the police everytime they suspected someone was underage ( or NOT?????), you would see busts/raids all over the place (the direct opposite of what you suggest). These raids would make life very stressful for the honest hobbyiests and clients in there.If people did more of that there wouldn't be such a problem, and the police wouldn't be raiding places and making life stressful for all the honest people.
I give up. You're a tool. I'm out.
BBLACK
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Actually, my sympathies ARE with the guy who got caught in addition to the girl. It's sad for both for different reasons.zydeco said:You know BigBlack - reading through this thread IMO the only absolute certainty comes from Pallydin when he says - it's a complex topic and not one that is black and white. Although I'm sure you're a guy who is vehemently against involving underaged girls or so called sex slaves in all of this, it seems as though your initial sympathies might have been with the fellow who was caught with one. Sounds like that has disturbed a few members out there. Either way, I'm not sure I understand the necessity for the belligerent tone of your posts. It's just a discussion.
So many of you are hypocrites because you're lashing bblack while at the same time wouldn't hesitate to brag about hot, barely legal pussy. BBLack is right: it could have been any of us that like LEGAL but young chicks, and got duped.
I would first like to state that due to the political climate, the police have chosen to take the 'underage' and 'illegal immigrant' route. I had an officer from Sex Crimes Unit phone me at home today at 7:30 am to assure me that these raids were not to charge anyone under the prostitution laws. Ok, fine.
Now, if you are going to bust 'illegals', I think that they should be given the option to get landed immigrant statues right away. As far as the 'underagers' go, I have a few qualms with how this was handled. I have issues with CAS, and the potential 'over-dramatizing' of the situation these young ladies were in.
I have read a few posts by mp owners/managers, and it seems the police were unprofessional and rude at some points; I am sorry that you had to deal with this. As for the ones who are knowingly EXPLOITING--those who are aware of age or are being abusive to ANY workers--I have very little pity for you.
All in all, I will again sound the message for decriminalization; we need it now and it is the only way that sex workers' rights will be fully ensured!!
Now, if you are going to bust 'illegals', I think that they should be given the option to get landed immigrant statues right away. As far as the 'underagers' go, I have a few qualms with how this was handled. I have issues with CAS, and the potential 'over-dramatizing' of the situation these young ladies were in.
I have read a few posts by mp owners/managers, and it seems the police were unprofessional and rude at some points; I am sorry that you had to deal with this. As for the ones who are knowingly EXPLOITING--those who are aware of age or are being abusive to ANY workers--I have very little pity for you.
All in all, I will again sound the message for decriminalization; we need it now and it is the only way that sex workers' rights will be fully ensured!!
Your arguments make no sense whatsoever . Using your reasoning , i'm not sure what that is , it will be our responsibility to be sure nobody is served underage in a bar. Have you never heard of phony id's really . As far as underage girls only in seedy places again wake up. I thought enforcing legal age was up to The L.E. and it still is in spite of what you personally choose togala said:It HAS to be up to the customer to avoid these things, even though that'll be tough and difficult.
Still, it HAS to be customers who take responsibility for this
I don't know, but I bet the guy who got charged went looking for the youngest looking girl with the highest mileage for the cheapest price. I bet he went into some place that obviously didn't look very reputable to get it,
Maybe you have no way to card the girls, and maybe you shouldn't even be able to do that
At the end of the day it IS your responsibility: nobody else can really solve this problem. Only you. The police are going to continue what they're doing until the industry cleans itself up on its own and the problem gets solved--that's where you come in.
believe. By the way nobody forced Traci Lords to do what she did at a less than legal age. You sound like you are out to police the world.
Re: This is a good thing...
SO TRUE ,,, HAPPY HoHoTheNiteHwk said:Don't have time right now to read the report on CP24.com or others or to comment as much as I would like to. But I will say this. If in fact as I heard on BT this morning their purpose in these raids to get to the underage girls and others who are being forced into working then that's all good. The By-law officer stated on TV they did not want to close places down nor was this an attack on MPs to close down the sex industry. Personally I don't care how much manpower and raids it takes... if they get even just one underage girl and are able to help her and protect her... if they get just one lousy pimp who is forcing girls to work... then it is all worth it. As far as what effect it will have being in the news etc... like usual... everybody will forget about it in a couple days. The headlines next week will be something about more broken promises and nobody will even remember this entire affair at all.
More later... VERY busy today.
NiteHwk
gala said:
I really don't like people who whine and bitch and think that nothing is their responsibility.
And I really can't tolerate people who think it is their right
to tell others what their responsibility is.
If you want to post warnings , go ahead I have more important things to do. Who made you god by the way ?
