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Govt-GM Chrysler

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spankingman

Well-known member
Dec 7, 2008
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The Govt is going to ask for realistic concessions from GM and Chrysler workers.I wonder how the powerfull CAW will react. I think thers is only one way they can look at it.

If you are in a desert and you are dying of thisrst Would you rather have 1/2 a glass of water or NO water!!!!!

Its time the big Unions and yes I am in a Union to to take their heads out of the sand and realize whats going on these days The so called BIG 3 workers make a better wage than most of us.Taking a cut to keep jobs isnt that big a deal !! Even with a paycut they will still be making more than the ave. worker in Ontario.

I'd rather have SOME then NONE!!!!!!!
 
Caw

From what I have read....
$76/hr for an auto worker with benefits, pensons etc...
That is the cost to Chrysler...

FIAT is asking for a $19/hr reduction, to be on par with Non-union
japanese....honda and toyota Ontario plants.

Most peopel don't even make $19/hr.

SP's do :)

Take the pay cut Autoworkers...
 
durexguy said:
From what I have read....
$76/hr for an auto worker with benefits, pensons etc...
That is the cost to Chrysler...

FIAT is asking for a $19/hr reduction, to be on par with Non-union
japanese....honda and toyota Ontario plants.

Most peopel don't even make $19/hr.

SP's do :)

Take the pay cut Autoworkers...
Click to expand...


AGAIN people only see the 76.00 an hour which is FALSE.That amount INCLUDES their benfit package.If we all include our benefits etc IF you have them you do make MORE than your hourly wage if you include everything. I believe they make top rate of 34.00 for the skilled jobs ie: electricians.
 
The union workers have a contract. just like the bond holders. The only way to tear up all contracts is through a bancruptcy.
 
rubmeister100 said:
Or renegotiate the contract in light of the REALITY of the present day.
Click to expand...

The bond holders seem unwilling to do that.
 
danmand said:
The bond holders seem unwilling to do that.
Click to expand...
Just because they refused 15 cents on the dollar does not mean the bondholders are not negotiating.
Bondholders are going to take a big hit so current shareholders should be wiped out completely.

Ottawa willing to let GM, Chrysler collapse
Ottawa is prepared to let Canada's two financially troubled car makers collapse rather than provide long-term financing to companies without a viable future, Industry Minister Tony Clement said Thursday as he ratcheted up the pressure on the Canadian Auto Workers union to negotiate new deals to slash wages and benefits.
“I don't think it is in the interest of the Canadian public to have continued funding to a company if there is no deal with their union and if there is no outside investor, or no outside partner in the case of Fiat,” he said. “Those were our conditions.... So if you're asking me whether I'm willing to funnel Canadian government money, taxpayer money, when we do not have an acceptable plan on a go-forward basis, I cannot do that. I don't think it would be responsible.”
http://ctv2.theglobeandmail.com/ser...416/business/Business/businessBN/ctv-business
 
spankingman said:
....

If you are in a desert and you are dying of thisrst Would you rather have 1/2 a glass of water or NO water!!!!!

......(truncated to save space) I'd rather have SOME then NONE!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Actually, in the majority of examples of unions, they'd rather have a gallon of water and go without until they get that gallon. Then when they are promised that gallon, and find out they've drained the well, ask for someone else to fill the well back up so they can drain it once again.

For eg: the last time Chrysler was on the ropes, closed their doors, finally secured government funding, opened the doors, the unions struck (I think it was) 3 weeks later........
 
tboy said:
Actually, in the majority of examples of unions, they'd rather have a gallon of water and go without until they get that gallon. Then when they are promised that gallon, and find out they've drained the well, ask for someone else to fill the well back up so they can drain it once again.

For eg: the last time Chrysler was on the ropes, closed their doors, finally secured government funding, opened the doors, the unions struck (I think it was) 3 weeks later........
Click to expand...

LMFAO! Doesn't anyone else see the absolute ridiculous irony of this situation? The CAW/ UAW has certainly outgrown it's usefulness IMHO. :rolleyes:
 
Sorry to say Ottawa has no say if Gm-Chrysler goes bankrupt! All decisions come from the US, Canada as stated years ago by a assole senator stating is the cousin the shows up at family functions nobody takes that seriously !
 
The way I see it the auto workers and their unions have been to greedy for to long, and now it's biting them in the ass. I work hard for my money and don't make anywhere near what they do, and that's without their benefits. The top executives are raping the company for large dollar paycheques so why should the Govt. (taxpayers) bail them out. They all need to take a major pay cut right from the top to the bottom.
I own a GM car, 97 Buick, and just had the fuel sending unit replaced in it. Without a fuel pump it cost $916. The fuel pump was $208 more. They can't sell cars so now their ripping us off for the parts. Fuck them.
 
eldoguy said:
Sorry to say Ottawa has no say if Gm-Chrysler goes bankrupt! All decisions come from the US, Canada as stated years ago by a assole senator stating is the cousin the shows up at family functions nobody takes that seriously !
Click to expand...

Canada does indeed have something to say about a bankrupcy, the canadian branches of GM and Chrysler are separate entities owned by shareholders. If the CAW and the bondholders don't get tired playing chicken they are going to get a big surprise. There are a whole bunch more non CAW voters than CAW voters. The only thing a govt is really interested in is staying in power if the polls show enough opposition to the bailouts they will pull the plug, in spite of the CAW
 
I don't think I can add anything that hasn't already been said about this insane situation, but I do have a question.

If enough CAW workers want to keep their jobs, is there not a process in the union to bring this to a vote, or to impeach Lewenza?

Is there not a democratic process in that fucking union??
 
the government can give GM and Crysler all the money in the world, it still wont make people want to buy their cars.
 
It will be interesting to see what the auto panel decides to do with Chrysler on April 30.
Like GM, if the government gives Chrysler more financing they will have to go through bankruptcy court to tear up old contract agreements and accelerate the process of fixing the problems contained in their balance sheet.
Whether workers like or not they are going to have to accept parity with workers over at Toyota/Honda/Nissan plants.

Events of recent months though are going to leave a bad taste in mouths of consumers and I think that the GM/Chrysler brand names have suffered an enormous amount of damage that will show up in the bottom line in coming years.

If Chrysler gets more funding from government and corrects the competitive problems in their balance sheet and labour agreements though bankruptcy courts, - they are still going to have a really really tough time competing over the next 3/4 years.

For one thing the Fiat cars won't show up in showrooms for 30 months and in the meantime they are in difficult position of trying to sell below average cars to public that are not all that attractive and that will depreciate quickly.
So, I fully expect the rivers of red ink to keep flowing at Chrysler even if government gives them more financing on April 30.
Chrysler's mess is a lot worse than GM's. It is not going to be an easy problem to solve.
 
Something is wrong with the Auto Industry ie BIG 3 .When in these tough times of supposidly nobody is buying cars ,well at least NA made cars that a Burlington NISSAN Dealership is expanding and had close to record March sales!!!!!!!

This was a TV News story last night on CHTV part of the Canwest FORMER empire
 
I have the same opinion that I had before:

CAW: nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah, hey hey hey, goodbye!

The $76/hr figure (with all benefits in) is an obscene amount of money to be paying out to have guys bolt parts onto a car. That is $150,000 a year plus per line employee. What makes it more obscene is the idea that Toyota down the road is paying out under $50 an hour net.

Most of that difference is attributed to the gold plated retirement packages for former GM employees, health benefits, and insane rules that has GM paying people to stay home.

Net the difference on a per car basis is somewhere between $700 and $2000 per car (depending on who you ask) that comes right off the bottom line. Add that to the fact that GM has been selling their cars for less than a comprable Toyota (customers pay for quality), and you have a completely untennible situation for GM. It cost them up to $2000 more to build a car, and they get $2000 less when they sell it.

What the CAW is going to get at this point is a big kick in the ass. It is very likely that GM will go chapter 11 / etc, and one of the first things they will be looking at dumping is their overpriced health coverage and overpriced employees.

News for the CAW: There are plenty of people in Canada that would gladly work at an auto plant for $20 an hour (45k a year, give or take). It's only the artificially warped union contracts that make a guy with a wrench suddenly worth $75 net an hour.
 
Pres. Obama, will be the person who will speak for GM-Chryslers future existence. He is writing the biggest cheque! The Chrysler-Fiat, merger also depends on the US decision or Fiat will be riding in to the sunset also they are also teetering on the brink.
 
spankingman said:
Something is wrong with the Auto Industry ie BIG 3 .When in these tough times of supposidly nobody is buying cars ,well at least NA made cars that a Burlington NISSAN Dealership is expanding and had close to record March sales!!!!!!!

This was a TV News story last night on CHTV part of the Canwest FORMER empire
Click to expand...

The reason for some makes and dealers to have record or no drop in sales is that there are people still buying cars, just not GM or Chrysler. They have to go somewhere........

Put it this way: if at peak times, 1,000 new cars are sold daily in Toronto, 600 at slow times, if that is now divided among only 4 makes instead of 6.....well, you get the picture.

I know some ford dealers who are not noticing any drop........
 
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