Goodbye Waiters, Goodbye Tips, Don't Let the Door Hit You on Way Out

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
32,176
2,701
113
Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
wage theft has gone digital


Delivery apps like DoorDash are using your tips to pay workers’ wages

When you order food through an app and tip the worker who delivers it, you’d be forgiven for thinking that the money you give goes directly to that person. But in reality, some delivery apps use your tip to make up the worker’s base pay — essentially stealing the money you’re trying to give someone to maximize their profits.

This isn’t a new practice by any means, but a recent report from The New York Times highlights how DoorDash, the most popular food delivery app in the US, enforces it.

Here’s Times reporter Andy Newman:

DoorDash offers a guaranteed minimum for each job. For my first order, the guarantee was $6.85 and the customer, a woman in Boerum Hill who answered the door in a colorful bathrobe, tipped $3 via the app. But I still received only $6.85.

Here’s how it works: If the woman in the bathrobe had tipped zero, DoorDash would have paid me the whole $6.85. Because she tipped $3, DoorDash kicked in only $3.85. She was saving DoorDash $3, not tipping me.

It’s worth noting that this is not some novel form of exploitation. DoorDash’s policy is the equivalent of a “tipped wage,” a common practice in America where employers pay workers less than the minimum wage and rely on tips to make up the payments they owe. Apps like DoorDash are essentially just extending established bad labor practices into the world of tech. (And this is before we get into the wider debate as to why tips, in general, suck.)

But just because something is common doesn’t make it fair. Stories earlier this year from NBC News and the Los Angeles Times highlighted how Instacart and Amazon Flex also use tips to make up pay. One consumer advocate described these practices as “completely deceptive.”

Following outcry, Instacart scrapped the policy and promised to retroactively compensate workers. But DoorDash and Amazon Flex didn’t budge. They still use tips to make up base pay on some of their deliveries. Even more annoyingly, it can be difficult for workers to know when this is even happening because of a lack of transparency in how they’re paid (DoorDash, though, recently rolled out changes to make the source of earnings clearer).

The Verge reached out to other firms in this sector to check their own policies. Postmates, Grubhub, Seamless, and Uber Eats all confirmed that customer tips are not used to subsidize workers’ pay.

The battle for fair treatment of delivery workers is bigger than just tips, of course. It’s about guaranteed wages and whether or not companies will recognize these individuals as full-time employees, with all the rights and responsibilities that this entails. In the meantime, if you want to make sure your delivery worker gets your tip, here’s a simple hack: use cash.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/22/...-tip-pay-theft-doordash-amazon-flex-instacart
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
31,096
5,203
113
It does not cost the server nothing to serve customers. It's the employers' responsibility to pay ther servers not the customers.
If you don't tip then the server still pays the tip pool. No matter what. It's based on sales.

So yes non tipping means the server pays out.
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
32,176
2,701
113
Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
If you don't tip then the server still pays the tip pool. No matter what. It's based on sales.

So yes non tipping means the server pays out.
that's wage theft and that should be illegal.
 

fall

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
2,740
679
113
If you don't tip then the server still pays the tip pool. No matter what. It's based on sales.

So yes non tipping means the server pays out.
And what prevents waiters to end this tip-out practice. There is no legal requirements to do it. If the other employees are underpaid too, the waiters can tip them if he/she want to out of the money he/she made on tips. The problem is internal, and now costumers are expected to take care of the problem that the restaurant employees are invented?

And another thing about small number of tables and large groups leading to extra work.

Small number of tables = less work. Hence, part time pay fop part time work
Large groups = more work but more pay (larger bill = higher tips)
Short working hours = do not expect full day pay.

IMHO, when waiters gets $20 per hour (including tips and wage) - they already getting paid way too much. But it seems they are clearing about $30-$50 per hour even on the slow days.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
31,096
5,203
113
And what prevents waiters to end this tip-out practice. There is no legal requirements to do it. If the other employees are underpaid too, the waiters can tip them if he/she want to out of the money he/she made on tips. The problem is internal, and now costumers are expected to take care of the problem that the restaurant employees are invented?

And another thing about small number of tables and large groups leading to extra work.

Small number of tables = less work. Hence, part time pay fop part time work
Large groups = more work but more pay (larger bill = higher tips)
Short working hours = do not expect full day pay.

IMHO, when waiters gets $20 per hour (including tips and wage) - they already getting paid way too much. But it seems they are clearing about $30-$50 per hour even on the slow days.
Um. Large tables are worse than small ones. They take longer, are usually held by reservation, stay longer, and don't spend anymore per person as a rule. And as many if them are business parties they drink less now. Companies won't pay for booze. This is a common misconception amongst non servers. I'd rather turn my tables( when I did this) thank you.

And servers don't have a choice on tip pool. It's that simple. They are hired knowing the policy in place and it's legal to enforce it.

Oh and your hourly is off. I explained the number in a few posts. You haven't worked in the industry so really you have no clue. You are just blowing smoke guessing.

And please remember many servers do say up to two hours prepwork and clean up with say three hours(dinner rush) for service. So the tip part gets spread over those extra hours as well.

Servers do do pretty good. Not nearly as well as you think. And have absolutely zero benefits.
 

Jasmine Raine

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2014
4,045
49
48
Just a tip. I used to hate piling of dishes and the like. I have a clearing carrying system I used that I could clear a table of 5 one go but I needed the dishes to stay where they are to do it right. Both from the table and to the dishpit.

You are out btw to be catered to. It's part of the experience. When I'm out(rarely these days as I prefer my own cooking) I let the experience happen.
I'm not out to be catered too. I don't do being catered too. And if I was, the dishes would-be cleaned away the second I was done eating. I don't want them on my table when I am done. I don't want them sitting in front of me empty. I want a clear table. Wait staff are simply not fast enough.

Some get the hint and if they want to clear their way, they keep an eye on the table. However, I have never once had a wait staff seem upset and most actually thank me. I do stack them for carrying. I'm not a complete dumb ass.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
31,096
5,203
113
I'm not out to be catered too. I don't do being catered too. And if I was, the dishes would-be cleaned away the second I was done eating. I don't want them on my table when I am done. I don't want them sitting in front of me empty. I want a clear table. Wait staff are simply not fast enough.

Some get the hint and if they want to clear their way, they keep an eye on the table. However, I have never once had a wait staff seem upset and most actually thank me. I do stack them for carrying. I'm not a complete dumb ass.
I guess I tended to be quick enough. And no i don't think you are a dumb ass.

As to not bring catered to that's yer choice. I consider it part of the experience to be a lazy ass. Remembering I understood that my job was to facilitate others to be said lazy ass.

Try it sometime. You might like it!
 

TeeJay

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2011
8,052
731
113
west gta
Most aren't. But remember this. Tip pools for the other employees still exist and are valid. But servers tip out based on SALES not tips recieved.

So when you don't tip it COSTS Servers to take care of you. Is that what you want to happen?
It costs them nothing
In your example assuming they tip out 25%

Person A leave $10
They give back $2.50

Person B leaves $0
They give back $0

For that matter if EVERY person stopped tipping this would be a non issue
It only is an issue because most of these actors/models/social media influencers who are serving you have this huge self inflated value of their worth

No server anywhere in this country has ever made less than minimum wage
Even with splitting tips or takebacks by the owners
 

TeeJay

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2011
8,052
731
113
west gta
And servers don't have a choice on tip pool. It's that simple. They are hired knowing the policy in place and it's legal to enforce it.
Show me one legal document or contract where this is even mentioned
You are talking out your ass on this point

There is NO legal requirement for a server to share tips in any way whatsoever
(actually from a legal standpoint; IF what you are claiming is true (its not) but then for CRA purposes they would be REQUIRED to report the ENTIRE tip (eg $20) then to claim out the amount (eg $5) they were forced to tip out. As well even if someone tipped $0 in that scenario they would be required to report the loss due to tip out)
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
31,096
5,203
113
Show me one legal document or contract where this is even mentioned
You are talking out your ass on this point

There is NO legal requirement for a server to share tips in any way whatsoever
(actually from a legal standpoint; IF what you are claiming is true (its not) but then for CRA purposes they would be REQUIRED to report the ENTIRE tip (eg $20) then to claim out the amount (eg $5) they were forced to tip out. As well even if someone tipped $0 in that scenario they would be required to report the loss due to tip out)
Lol. It's called company policy. You have heard if these right? Happens all the time, from dress codes, start and finish times, how your desk is kept, security protocols, etc.

Don't tip out, fired. It's that simple.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
31,096
5,203
113
It costs them nothing
In your example assuming they tip out 25%

Person A leave $10
They give back $2.50

Person B leaves $0
They give back $0

For that matter if EVERY person stopped tipping this would be a non issue
It only is an issue because most of these actors/models/social media influencers who are serving you have this huge self inflated value of their worth

No server anywhere in this country has ever made less than minimum wage
Even with splitting tips or takebacks by the owners
No. Servers tip out not on tips recieved, but on total sales.

Server sells $1000 makes $200 in tips, tips out $30-50 based on sales depending on tip pool.

Server sells $1000, makes $150, still tips out $30-50.

No matter what.

So on a $100 table, no tip, server still owes $3-5 dollars in tip pool. Period.

That's the way it works. Ask anyone you like in the industry.
 

Jasmine Raine

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2014
4,045
49
48
No. Servers tip out not on tips received, but on total sales.

Server sells $1000 makes $200 in tips, tips out $30-50 based on sales depending on tip pool.

Server sells $1000, makes $150, still tips out $30-50.

No matter what.

So on a $100 table, no tip, server still owes $3-5 dollars in tip pool. Period.

That's the way it works. Ask anyone you like in the industry.
So then question;

We, as in escorts, get told, no shows and time wasters are a part of the biz. Suck it up and deal if we want to work in this industry. Why should we not say the same to wait staff? We say shit to teachers about there industry, we say shit to police about the problems in their industry.

So why not tell wait staff to suck it up? That is the way their industry works and if they want to change it, band together and do so.

Tipping is not what it use to be used for. The percentage keeps keeping higher and higher. If that can get pushed through, why can't getting paid at least minimum wage be pushed through? Because wait staff don't want that. They make more money guilting the public into 25% tipping practices.

Honestly, food quality and service has gone such downhill over the years, I don't even bother dining out anymore if I don't have too.

I currently have 2 different $100 GC to two different restaurants for horrible fucked up meals that I needed to complain all the way to head office to be acknowledged. How the fuck do you send out two different dishes out raw? How the fuck do you not know how to microwave bread before putting it on the grill? And when you tell the staff, they send out raw fish. Manager comes around and offers fries while a wait for a third meal to come out and I'm supposed to tip for that??? I don't even want to GCs because I don't trust eating there anymore.

Fresher ingredient at home, better atmosphere at home, and better pricing.

Tipping is suppose to be for good service. Period. Not to pad someones income because of low wages. Get rid of tipping altogether is my opinion. If self serve or robot waiters will do that, I'm good with it.
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
32,176
2,701
113
Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
Lol. It's called company policy. You have heard if these right? Happens all the time, from dress codes, start and finish times, how your desk is kept, security protocols, etc.

Don't tip out, fired. It's that simple.
It is called wage theft.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
31,096
5,203
113
It is called wage theft.
And when they do stop it, and prices go up to high end hotel meal prices in regular restaurants?

I've seen the threads from guys whining about SP prices, imagine the tears then.......

It's all relative. The customers will pay in the end.
 

JackBurton

Well-known member
Jan 5, 2012
1,955
786
113
So then question;

We, as in escorts, get told, no shows and time wasters are a part of the biz. Suck it up and deal if we want to work in this industry. Why should we not say the same to wait staff? We say shit to teachers about there industry, we say shit to police about the problems in their industry.

So why not tell wait staff to suck it up? That is the way their industry works and if they want to change it, band together and do so.

Tipping is not what it use to be used for. The percentage keeps keeping higher and higher. If that can get pushed through, why can't getting paid at least minimum wage be pushed through? Because wait staff don't want that. They make more money guilting the public into 25% tipping practices.

Honestly, food quality and service has gone such downhill over the years, I don't even bother dining out anymore if I don't have too.

I currently have 2 different $100 GC to two different restaurants for horrible fucked up meals that I needed to complain all the way to head office to be acknowledged. How the fuck do you send out two different dishes out raw? How the fuck do you not know how to microwave bread before putting it on the grill? And when you tell the staff, they send out raw fish. Manager comes around and offers fries while a wait for a third meal to come out and I'm supposed to tip for that??? I don't even want to GCs because I don't trust eating there anymore.

Fresher ingredient at home, better atmosphere at home, and better pricing.

Tipping is suppose to be for good service. Period. Not to pad someones income because of low wages. Get rid of tipping altogether is my opinion. If self serve or robot waiters will do that, I'm good with it.
+1.

It’s the pretentious of assuming I want to tip 20-25% on the bill that bothers me the most.

Right back to my original argument: I’m not paying someone 20-25% to walk my food to the table. It’s not a hard job like other industries. They make lots in cash that’s not taxed. No sympathy here.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
31,096
5,203
113
So then question;

We, as in escorts, get told, no shows and time wasters are a part of the biz. Suck it up and deal if we want to work in this industry. Why should we not say the same to wait staff? We say shit to teachers about there industry, we say shit to police about the problems in their industry.

So why not tell wait staff to suck it up? That is the way their industry works and if they want to change it, band together and do so.

Tipping is not what it use to be used for. The percentage keeps keeping higher and higher. If that can get pushed through, why can't getting paid at least minimum wage be pushed through? Because wait staff don't want that. They make more money guilting the public into 25% tipping practices.

Honestly, food quality and service has gone such downhill over the years, I don't even bother dining out anymore if I don't have too.

I currently have 2 different $100 GC to two different restaurants for horrible fucked up meals that I needed to complain all the way to head office to be acknowledged. How the fuck do you send out two different dishes out raw? How the fuck do you not know how to microwave bread before putting it on the grill? And when you tell the staff, they send out raw fish. Manager comes around and offers fries while a wait for a third meal to come out and I'm supposed to tip for that??? I don't even want to GCs because I don't trust eating there anymore.

Fresher ingredient at home, better atmosphere at home, and better pricing.

Tipping is suppose to be for good service. Period. Not to pad someones income because of low wages. Get rid of tipping altogether is my opinion. If self serve or robot waiters will do that, I'm good with it.
They do suck it up. That's the point.

And high tipping is rare. When I did it as a rule I earned about 10% of my sales in tips.

I agree that service has declined. I go out alot less too. Cook at home.

But I don't see the "pressure" to tip 25% anywhere. Haven't heard of this. It takes alot to get me to twenty.
Im really not sure where people think they have to feel bad for not tipping above 15%. And that's for good service. No one will chase after you, no one will remember you. Servers move on.

I just don't get the anger I see.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts