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GM falls to 1950 levels

Malibook

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Nov 16, 2001
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It's actually much worse since a dollar back then was worth way more.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/gm-falls-1950-levels-european/story.aspx?guid={C503DCF6-2571-42CD-AFA4-682958304034}&siteid=yhoof

In fact, the last time GM traded at around $5.40 a share, a typical car sold for just over $3,000, gasoline cost 20 cents a gallon, a six-pack of Coke could be yours for 37 cents, and houses went for $16,000.

GM dropped 20% on no news and then a S&P downgrade came later.
That is quite a coincidence.:rolleyes:
 

S.C. Joe

Client # 13
Nov 2, 2007
7,146
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Total dumb asses running the company...just this week I seen GM is now thinking of selling the Rec Cen in Detroit for 500 million--they brought it in May of this year for 650 million...but IF they can sell it, they will lease the space again like they were doing. They have no thought of leaving Detroit--even thou almost everybody and company has left. :p

All I can say is theres many many stocks way down...its just how down are they...even Met Life stock has been cut in half the last 2 weeks. Have some life insurance from them and just a month ago I looked at the stock price and was very surprise it was in the mid $50 range...today Met Life closed around $26

I keep thinking if Obama gets in, he help turn things around but gee...just today another 500+ point drop in Toronto, 650+ drop in NY.


Only good news for ME, is the USA dollar is getting stronger...$87 US can get me $100 Canadian dollars...I recall when it cost more...hope many of you Canadians stocked up on US dollars when the rate was high for you...if not, your like me...Know how much Canadian dollars I got when it was in the 60 range, none, ha ha. I thought it go in to the 50's, duh.
 

Gyaos

BOBA FETT
Aug 17, 2001
6,172
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Heaven, definately Heaven
USA:

THE POOR:
People need loan to buy car
People need loan to buy house
People need loan to go to college
People need loan to buy sex
People need loan to look for a job (that doesn't pay).
People need loan to buy airline ticket
People need loan to buy hotel room
People need loan to buy health insurance
People need loan to buy groceries

THE RICH:
Need loan to pay employees
Need loan to pay pensions
Need loan to buy products
Need loan to run business
Need loan to pay taxes
Need loan to fund projects
Need loan to go on AIG holiday

Answer: No one in America has any money. No one in America ever had any money when 1984 Bush Orwellian Jr. came to power.

Bush Jr.: "Everyone must sacrifice. I want the $25,000 a year teacher to sacrifice so the AIG employees can have a nice vacation in the tropics and at the Ritz when they get their loan."

Gyaos Baltar
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
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Gyaos said:
USA:

THE POOR:
People need loan to buy car
People need loan to buy house
People need loan to go to college
People need loan to buy sex
People need loan to look for a job (that doesn't pay).
People need loan to buy airline ticket
People need loan to buy hotel room
People need loan to buy health insurance
People need loan to buy groceries

THE RICH:
Need loan to pay employees
Need loan to pay pensions
Need loan to buy products
Need loan to run business
Need loan to pay taxes
Need loan to fund projects
Need loan to go on AIG holiday

Answer: No one in America has any money. No one in America ever had any money when 1984 Bush Orwellian Jr. came to power.

Bush Jr.: "Everyone must sacrifice. I want the $25,000 a year teacher to sacrifice so the AIG employees can have a nice vacation in the tropics and at the Ritz when they get their loan."

Gyaos Baltar
Gyaos as you well know the following are Capital Expenses:

People need loans to buy cars
People need loans to buy houses
People need loans to go to college

And I really don't know about businesses in Japan but elsewhere:

Businesses need loans to buy products (short term borrowing, cheaper than using capital)
Businesses need loans to fund projects (yeah that what loans traditional are for)
Businesses need loans to pay taxes (again short term borrowing, cheeper in the short term than using capital)


Then you have the more questionable:

Businesses need loan to run business ?? (I'm not quite sure what you mean, or are you talking about traditional loans to expand a business?)


And then you have the just plain foolish:

Businesses need loans to pay pensions
AIG needs a loan for a wild company party
People need loans to buy sex
People need loans to look for a job (that doesn't pay).
People need loans to buy airline ticket
People need loans to buy hotel room
People need loans to buy health insurance
People need loans to buy groceries

And then of course we have the whole issue of Japan in the 1990's
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
53,773
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Malibook said:
The last time GM traded at around $5.40 a share, a typical car sold for just over $3,000, gasoline cost 20 cents a gallon, a six-pack of Coke could be yours for 37 cents, and houses went for $16,000.
But the very best part is:

IRS and Revenue Canada consider you have broken even if you purchased or were given it then and sell it now!? rolleyes:
 

RogerRabbit

New member
Jul 7, 2003
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Canada...
the story gets more...

Breaking News Alert
The New York Times
Friday, October 10, 2008 -- 10:06 PM ET
-----

G.M. and Chrysler Explore Merger

General Motors is in preliminary talks about a possible
merger with Chrysler, a deal that could drastically remake
the landscape of the auto industry by reducing the Big Three
of Detroit automakers to the Big Two.

The talks between G.M. and Cerberus Capital Management, the
private equity firm that owns Chrysler, began more than a
month ago, and the negotiations are not certain to produce a
deal. Two people close to the process said the chances of a
merger were "50-50" as of Friday and would most likely still
take weeks to work out.



NYTimes.com
620 Eighth Ave.
New York, NY 10018

Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,725
2,377
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Merging two bad companies into one will not make a winner
Product innovation is poor
Were not prepared for the sharp rise in gas (yes oil is down below 80 /bbl - nut for how long- they may have caught a break there)
Quality sucks
Cost of labor is not competitive
Credit crunch will stifle sales in a very competitive market

The merged company will only survive if they close many plants, start building cost effective fuel efficient cars and most importantly form a working partnership with the unions.(ie substantial cuts in pay 25-40% reductions)

The unions had better wake up & pitch in or this merged company is gone
 

RogerRabbit

New member
Jul 7, 2003
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Canada...
JohnLarue said:
The unions had better wake up & pitch in or this merged company is gone
Why don't the respective unions buy these companies, with backing from the US Gov't? They are at bargain valuations are they not? They have a duty to their members to ensure pension obligation are met, yes?

Did that arrangement work for US Airlines when they have been in trouble, if not why not?

On that note I am appalled Robert Milton is still getting $50 M plus per year, to run ACE Aviation and the airline must layoff 2000 workers that will save AC $50 M per year. I wonder if the interest of one executive should take precedence over the interest of 2000 workers, shareholders, customers, etc.?
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
24,004
3,832
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JohnLarue said:
Merging two bad companies into one will not make a winner
Product innovation is poor
Were not prepared for the sharp rise in gas (yes oil is down below 80 /bbl - nut for how long- they may have caught a break there)
Quality sucks
Cost of labor is not competitive
Credit crunch will stifle sales in a very competitive market

The merged company will only survive if they close many plants, start building cost effective fuel efficient cars and most importantly form a working partnership with the unions.(ie substantial cuts in pay 25-40% reductions)

The unions had better wake up & pitch in or this merged company is gone
Here we go again. "It's the Union's fault"

Like the Unions are designing the cars. Sales of North American cars are way down because of shit quality, shit reliability, poor performance, boring styling, not because they're too expensive. North American cars are already far cheaper than Japanese cars and people still don't buy them. The Japanese manufacturers manufacture in North America and pay similar compensation to thier North American counterparts. Yes, the Japanese do not have similar legacy costs like the NA producers do. But in time, they will. Japanes labour (as far as the imports go) is actually MORE expensive than American labour.

The difference is one of Engineering. Plain and simple.

Why is it that people beat the shit out of the little guy, yet the fat cats making 50 million a year a get a pass.

If you think it's a good idea to bust some guy working on the line by 40%, keep in mind the taxes that he's paying and the money he's dropping into the economy.

As far as I'm concerned, the CEO of GM (who should be fired) should not be making more than 250 grand a year.

In 2006, Wagoner's total compensation was $14,415,914.

Link:

http://investing.businessweek.com/b...=878402&previousTitle=Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd.

Your average guy on the line probably makes $65,000 a year, maybe 85,000.00 with a pile of overtime.

You think that the fat cat is worth 221 times what I guy on the line is worth?

You think that's right?

Back in Harly Earl's day, he wasn't making 221 times what the guy on the line was making, I can assure you.

I'm the furthest thing from a socialist, but this kind of shit is everything that is wrong with our current system.

Everybody blames the little guy, but the fat cats get a pass.
 

Sasha Jones

Smart Ass ;-)
Aug 17, 2001
927
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Really Retired.....REALLY!
Malibook said:
It's actually much worse since a dollar back then was worth way more.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/gm-falls-1950-levels-european/story.aspx?guid={C503DCF6-2571-42CD-AFA4-682958304034}&siteid=yhoof

In fact, the last time GM traded at around $5.40 a share, a typical car sold for just over $3,000, gasoline cost 20 cents a gallon, a six-pack of Coke could be yours for 37 cents, and houses went for $16,000.

GM dropped 20% on no news and then a S&P downgrade came later.
That is quite a coincidence.
Yeah, but how many times has the stock split since the 50's?
You totally can't compare what it is selling at now versus what it sold at then unless you figure out what an original share would be worth today.
Even if the stock had only split 3 times (it has split more than that, I checked) the comparative value of the share price today would be $16.20, and again that is if it had only split 3 times.

Typical media fear mongering ..............:rolleyes:
 

21pro

Crotch Sniffer
Oct 22, 2003
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IMO

Chrysler, Ford and GM are of the walking dead. Ford will probably survive, though.

Next boom market will be in Japan and will absolutely kill these 3.
 

datyIsGr8

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Oct 4, 2008
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actually I just read in the newspaper that Chrysler and GM may merge, bringing the "big three" down to being the "small two". Sad days, I remember when GM was the epitome of what a great car was.
 

S.C. Joe

Client # 13
Nov 2, 2007
7,146
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Detroit, USA
Its the CEO's fault much more than the unions...GM was told a few years ago to sell the Hummer brand and close a few others and merge with Renault I believe. The 10% share holder pushing for it was Kirk Kerkorian, he even had a person on the board. But GM said NO...we like Hummer, we need 5 diff brands, we want no merger..so Kirk said F.U. to GM, sold all his stock and left GM alone.

The union workers are good hard working people--its not them calling the shots if GM wants to build Hummers that few want to buy.

Now GM merging with Chrysler...thats smart...maybe they can put the Hemi in a Hummer and watch them fly out the door :p
 

Malibook

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Nov 16, 2001
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Sasha Jones said:
Yeah, but how many times has the stock split since the 50's?
You totally can't compare what it is selling at now versus what it sold at then unless you figure out what an original share would be worth today.
Even if the stock had only split 3 times (it has split more than that, I checked) the comparative value of the share price today would be $16.20, and again that is if it had only split 3 times.

Typical media fear mongering ..............:rolleyes:
Good point but the facts remain that GM stock is down almost 90% this year and the company is losing massive amounts of money every quarter.

GM is not a viable business in it's present form.
 

S.C. Joe

Client # 13
Nov 2, 2007
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How many shareholders have brought the stock in the 50's :p ..theres likely 2 little old ladies out there, everybody else got screwed.
 

Keebler Elf

The Original Elf
Aug 31, 2001
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21pro said:
Chrysler, Ford and GM are of the walking dead. Ford will probably survive, though.
The Big 3 need to restructure, merge, and form the Big 1. Then start kicking Japanese ass. :D

One of the new problems is that people are now viewing it as just a matter of time until the Big 3 go under. And that impacts whether you'll buy their car or not since the warranty is worthless if the company goes under.

I'd have no problem buying a Big 3 car but for the fact that I wonder if the warranty will still be redeemable a few years down the road...
 

jwmorrice

Gentleman by Profession
Jun 30, 2003
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In the laboratory.
I'd say the only way any of the Big 3 will survive is with - get ready for it! - a massive government bailout. Maybe Uncle Sam will take an equity position? Stranger things have already happened this year in the land of free enterprise.

jwm
 

S.C. Joe

Client # 13
Nov 2, 2007
7,146
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Detroit, USA
The N.Y. Times is reporting that GM talk to Ford Motor first about a merger but Ford wants to stay Indy.


Fords problem is like GM, the people...now Bill Ford is running his grand daddy's company :rolleyes: ..thats understanable but GM...where did they find these fools?
 
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