Getting Shot Down in WWII (Pacific)?

Keebler Elf

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For the military history buffs out there, what happened to carrier-based aircraft pilots that were shot down while out fighting the enemy? If you got shot down, were you a total write off, left to forever drift in the Pacific? Or was there some way you could be rescued? I know they didn't have the same search & rescue tracking measures that we have today.

If you took off in a torpedo bomber, found a Jap carrier, dropped your torpedo, and were then shot down, were you basically fucked?
 

blackdog

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If you survived the crash, you floated around with your fingers crossed waiting for either the enemy to use you for target practice or for a friendly PBY to see you. Most didn't make it home.
 

Keebler Elf

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Funny you should mention that. I was watching a show on History and they admitted that the Americans would kill (most) Japanese survivors they found after a naval battle off Guadalcanal. Normally American shows gloss over that fact. I think it adds to your credibility when you're willing to admit the wrong as much as the right.
 

mandrill

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Well, put it this way: when the Luftwaffe flew over the North Sea during the Battle of Britain, the aircrew carried pistols for two reasons.

Reason #1 - So you could fend off any crazed Brit civilians who would otherwise smash your head in with a shovel. (Real risk. Brit and US aircrew flying over Germany carried handguns for the same reason.)

Reason #2 - So you could blow your own head off if you got shot down over the sea. Chances of rescue were not very high and dying of thirst and exposure in the water is a bad way to go.

The USN tried hard to find and rescue downed airman in the PTO, but it's a pretty big expanse and there were a lot of other things for the patrol planes to get busy doing. Memoirs of USN carrier pilots contain references about low level flying and seeing schools of sharks in the water below and how freaky that was to the pilots.

Eric Bergerud wrote a classic history of the airwar in the South Pacific called "Fire in the Sky". Must read. Not much about carriers, as that was the Central Pacific theatre. But a lot about flying off jungle strips in New Guinea and Guadalcanal.


http://www.amazon.com/Fire-Sky-Air-...=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225069388&sr=1-8
 

Aardvark154

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Keebler Elf said:
For the military history buffs out there, what happened to carrier-based aircraft pilots that were shot down while out fighting the enemy? If you got shot down, were you a total write off, left to forever drift in the Pacific? Or was there some way you could be rescued? I know they didn't have the same search & rescue tracking measures that we have today.

If you took off in a torpedo bomber, found a Jap carrier, dropped your torpedo, and were then shot down, were you basically fucked?
Particularly during the later half of the war, what later became 'Air Rescue' spent much effort in attempting to recover aircrews particularly in the Pacific Theatre where this was more practical. This involved both aircraft (PBY’s and Kingfishers) and “lifeguard” submarines.
 

JohnLarue

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I suspect the sharks of the pacific ocean (& there a lot of them) were another consideration.
If you were not picked up with a couple hours, your fucked
 

Aardvark154

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JohnLarue said:
I suspect the sharks of the pacific ocean (& there a lot of them) were another consideration. If you were not picked up with a couple hours, your fucked
It doesn’t concern aircrews, but if you haven’t already, read Rymond B. Lech’s All the Drowned Sailors about the sinking of the U.S.S. Indianapolis.
 

james t kirk

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George H W Bush was shot down in the Pacific and if memory serves, he bobbed around for days till they found him.

I've never heard that the Germans would not rescue their own naval crews who were sunk.
 

alexmst

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blackdog said:
If you survived the crash, you floated around with your fingers crossed waiting for either the enemy to use you for target practice or for a friendly PBY to see you. Most didn't make it home.
Better to land in the ocean than over Japan. I read Lord Russell of Liverpool's book "The Knights of Bushido" a few years ago and a self-inflicted shot to the head would seem a blessing. And no, I'm don't dislike the Japanese...I actually like most Japanese I meet these days ( I wasn't alive in the war). I'm just saying being an allied (UK/CAN/US) POW in Germany was less bad than being one in Japan, imo from what I've heard. Being a Russian POW in Germany was not a good idea at all as they were not treated like western POW's).

Mainly I think the honour thing in the Japanese military was that surrender or capture alive was total dishonour. They didn't treat POW's well becuase the thought they were pathetic excuses for soldiers - otherwise they would have died fighting or taken their own lives to avoid capture. The Germans had a more european view and both the Brits and German treated each other's POW's reasonably well and in a similar fashion.

An old neighbour of mine when I was a kid was a Brit POW in Germany from 1940-45. He said he'd heard the German Nazi government liked farmers and good simple volk, so when he was sent to a POW interview and processing camp in Germany after being captured in France (aged 19), and he saw most people saying to the German army translator they were clerks, machinists, factory workers, etc before the war, he said he was a farm hand...not that he was, but he used to vacation on his relatives farm as a kid. He was seperated from the rest (who went to an army POW camp) and sent to rural Germany and told his POW task would be to help out a farmer and his wife whose own German 19 year old son had died fighting for Germany in Poland. He said the couple were the nicest people he had met, grew to treat him as the son they lost, and he lived in their house in their son's room with no guards or military rules and ate like a king since they had their own farm food. Every month an army officer would stop by and check up on him for a few minutes and ask teh farmer if he had any complaints, which he never did. After the war when the British army got a hold of the prisoner records and sent a jeep to the farm to liberate him, the family cried that he was leaving and he felt sad too, and exchanged his parent's address in the UK with them and said he'd write and keep in touch. The guys from his unit survived the war too not much worse for wear but they had really small food allowances in their barracks and were under guard. He by contrast went to concerts in the nearby town, dances, etc.

Now one of my high school teachers was also a Brit and he was captured by the Japansese. He was deaf in one ear. I asked him why and he said the Japanese Imperial Army soldiers thought it would be funny to pour boiling oil into his ear one day for kicks.

One thing about American servicemen in the Pacific - the survival newsclips they used to train the men with said if in the ocean to trash about in the water to scare off sharks while waiting to be rescued...which is the worst thing to do and actually attracts sharks...but the navy didn't know that at the time.
 

Aardvark154

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alexmst said:
Better to land in the ocean than over Japan. I read Lord Russell of Liverpool's book "The Knights of Bushido" a few years ago and a self-inflicted shot to the head would seem a blessing. And no, I'm don't dislike the Japanese...I actually like most Japanese I meet these days ( I wasn't alive in the war). I'm just saying being an allied (UK/CAN/US) POW in Germany was less bad than being one in Japan, imo from what I've heard. Being a Russian POW in Germany was not a good idea at all as they were not treated like western POW's).
This certain conforms with everything I've read and heard.
 

tboy

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As for the thrashing about to scare off sharks, if you've seen the film sharkwater they were still teaching that in the 60's.......
 

21pro

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the navy were of the lowest priority to rescue.
 

mandrill

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james t kirk said:
George H W Bush was shot down in the Pacific and if memory serves, he bobbed around for days till they found him.

I've never heard that the Germans would not rescue their own naval crews who were sunk.
It's a question of actually finding people in a vast expanse of water. The Germans tried. The British routinely shot down Jerry air-sea rescue planes during the Battle of Britain.
 

LancsLad

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The movie on the sinking of the Indianapolis (sp) just before the wars end is gut wrenching. Survive the sinking, then spent the balance of your life as shark food.



Amazing story.



.
 

tboy

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LancsLad said:
The movie on the sinking of the Indianapolis (sp) just before the wars end is gut wrenching. Survive the sinking, then spent the balance of your life as shark food.



Amazing story.



.
Shows you the oxymoron of the term "military intelligence" they didn't even start the search for like 5 days after they were sunk because they had been rerouted enroute.
 

capncrunch

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LancsLad said:
The movie on the sinking of the Indianapolis (sp) just before the wars end is gut wrenching. Survive the sinking, then spent the balance of your life as shark food.

Amazing story.
I haven't seen the movie but read a couple of books about it. One of the great untold stories of the war.

Historical trivia: It was the Indianapolis that transported vital components of the first atomic weapon to be delivered in anger. Indianapolis was returning to home port when it was sunk.
 

LancsLad

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tboy said:
Shows you the oxymoron of the term "military intelligence" they didn't even start the search for like 5 days after they were sunk because they had been rerouted enroute.


As capncrunch mentions , the mission was highly classified due to its H-Bomb involvement. Its location was deliberately obfuscated. It is one of the truly harsh vagaries of war that a Jap found them. the Yanks played the odds and lost on that one.


Same kind of logic with the Queen Mary1. She often did the troop runs across the Atlantic without any escorts as she was such a fast ship she could outrun her support and was felt to be fast enough to alude German pursuit for the same reason. We were lucky. If the Hun had been lucky and sunk the Queen on one of her runs the loss of life would have been horrific.



.
 
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