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Gas-Powered Cars Will Vanish in 8 Years, Big Oil Will Collapse: Stanford Study

TeasePlease

Cockasian Brother
Aug 3, 2010
7,728
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I'll take that bet too. In 8 years from now I say that a gas powered vehicle (say a Honda Civic) will be cheaper than an electric powered Honda Civic. Before any gov't rebates. Anyone want to take that bet? Min $1K

Disagree. Electric cars are far simpler machines with fewer moving parts. Once critical mass is achieved, economies of scale will greatly reduce the cost of key components (batteries) for ecars.

but back to the original post. I say bullshit. 1. Who’s going to pay for taking ICE cars off the road and 2. We live in Ontario. The Liberals will find another way to fuck us and hydro costs will keep rising.
 

saxon

Well-known member
Dec 2, 2009
4,762
529
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For arguments sake if we did go totally electric how will the government deal with losing billions in gasoline taxes?
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
26,011
4,092
113
Simple - they will continue to jack up electrcity rates - there are no free rides (pun intended)
The assumption is, the money will be spent elsewhere no? They will probably tax car use in some horrendous way. In either case, the idea is to move consumption into areas that are less damaging to the environment.
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
13,027
3,076
113
A 2018 Ford Focus Electric is only 17% more than a gas Focus SEL with similar equipment. I think your $1K is in jeopardy.
Only 17% more before government rebates? Because that's the bet.

2017 Focus Sedan Starting At $16,898.00
2017 Focus Electric Starting at Starting At $31,498.00 (Before rebates)
 

The "Bone" Ranger

tits lover
Aug 5, 2006
4,195
32
48
Yes, they will give the money to single moms and refugees.

The assumption is, the money will be spent elsewhere no? They will probably tax car use in some horrendous way. In either case, the idea is to move consumption into areas that are less damaging to the environment.
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,064
1
0
Only 17% more before government rebates? Because that's the bet.

2017 Focus Sedan Starting At $16,898.00
2017 Focus Electric Starting at Starting At $31,498.00 (Before rebates)
It will be a very long time before EV come close to IC, the batteries are such a huge liability for manufactures.
 

JohnHenry

Well-known member
Aug 27, 2003
1,420
367
83
rural ontario
Only 17% more before government rebates? Because that's the bet.

2017 Focus Sedan Starting At $16,898.00
2017 Focus Electric Starting at Starting At $31,498.00 (Before rebates)
Yeah, but if you take the time to look at the specs, the electric compares to the SEL at 28500.
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
13,027
3,076
113
Yeah, but if you take the time to look at the specs, the electric compares to the SEL at 28500.
2017 Focus Sedan SEL Starting At $23,588.00
2017 Focus Electric Starting at Starting At $31,498.00 (Before rebates)

In other words, base price of the EV is still 8K more than the ICE version according to Ford's website.
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
29,762
11,210
113
Room 112
A 2018 Ford Focus Electric is only 17% more than a gas Focus SEL with similar equipment. I think your $1K is in jeopardy.
Take the bet then.
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
29,762
11,210
113
Room 112
EV's may not go the way of the dodo bird but I cannot see them ever being the dominant player in the market. Simply because the rationale for their existence is based upon false pretense. The truth will prevail, it's just a matter of time.
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,064
1
0
2017 Focus Sedan SEL Starting At $23,588.00
2017 Focus Electric Starting at Starting At $31,498.00 (Before rebates)

In other words, base price of the EV is still 8K more than the ICE version according to Ford's website.
Not to mention that the EV version weighs 700 lbs more than the IC version,... which is 24% more,... accelerating mass consumes energy, regardless were it comes from,... and is NOT free.

Also means increased tire and brake wear.
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
13,027
3,076
113
Not to mention that the EV version weighs 700 lbs more than the IC version,... which is 24% more,... accelerating mass consumes energy, regardless were it comes from,... and is NOT free.

Also means increased tire and brake wear.
True that... I'm not writing them off, but it's really quite simple. They'll never be mainstream/outsell ICE vehicles until the price is right and they're as convenient to own and operate. And for that reason alone, there's will be an alternative for many years to come.

No government is going to ban ICE cars until they're practical. It's called political suicide!
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
15,657
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Ghawar
Tesla Cuts Model 3 Orders From Core Supplier By 40%

Disagree. Electric cars are far simpler machines with fewer moving parts. Once critical mass is achieved, economies of scale will greatly reduce the cost of key components (batteries) for ecars.
Tesla's Model 3 was intended to be a more affordable model
produced in larger volume. I wonder what that critical mass to
be achieved by Tesla is going to be.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oct 27, 2017

Just days after the Shanghai government was stunned to read in the WSJ that it had granted Tesla permission to open a new gigafactory in its free-trade zone (turns out the two are only in the negotiations stage), according to Taiwanese media reports one of Tesla’s largest suppliers in the country has been instructed to pare back production on parts for the Tesla Model 3 – the latest sign that the cash-burning Silicon Valley carmaker is going to miss its goal of producing 5,000 cars a week by December.

Hota Industrial Manufacturing Co, a Taiwanese automotive components maker and long-time Tesla supplier, has been told to dial back its production of Model 3 components from 5,000 units per week in December to 3,000 per week – a 40% drop, Taiwan’s Economic Daily reports and adds that Hota Chairman Shen Kuo-jung said that the company has received a notice from Tesla to reduce its December order quantity due to production “bottlenecks.”

Hota, which has supplied parts for Tesla’s Model S and Model X, began supplying components, including gears, for the Model 3 in May of this year. Though December orders have been cut back by 40%, Hota indicates that the company is committed to meeting the needs of Tesla’s upcoming production ramp and is scheduled to ship 10,000 parts in May or June, timing that was pushed back from an original March date.

The news follows a handful of embarrassing reports earlier this month, including the revelation that problems with the company’s assembly line had forced employees at Tesla’s Fremont factory to assemble cars by hand, which explains why the company delivered only a fraction of the 1,500 Model 3 Sedans it had promised to deliver by the end of the third quarter.

Tesla, which is set to provide a clearer picture of sales and production delays when it reports earnings on Nov. 1, also suffered another major setback earlier this week when Mercedes beat Tesla to the punch and revealed its E-Fuso Vision One electric semi-truck prototype just weeks before Tesla was set to reveal its own electric semi-truck. Elon had been forced to delay the unveiling because of the Model 3’s “production hell”, something he reiterated yesterday when he qualified it as "8th circle" of hell.

Adding insult to injury, Bloomberg published a lengthy feature this week criticizing Musk’s galling tendency to over-promise and under-deliver, citing the company’s ongoing struggle to complete an upgrade of its “Autopilot” systems to allow for fully autonomous driving. Tesla began selling the software more than a year ago at $8,000 a pop – and has so far failed to deliver any significant improvements. Unconvinced by Musk’s efforts to stall, Tesla owners have opted to sue.

The rollout of the Model 3 Sedan, which, priced at $35,000, was supposed to be Tesla’s big foray into mass market vehicles, continues to be plagued by problems. After losing the mantle of “most valuable US automaker” in July, Tesla’s stock has lagged again in recent weeks following the barrage of embarrassing headlines. But how much longer will it take for shareholders to realize that Tesla is floundering as rivals like GM and Daimler continue to outmaneuver Tesla, which famously burned through $13 million a day in the second quarter.

Not helping matters, and perhaps the latest inication that the Tesla hype bubble is finally bursting, Elon Musk's EV company was downgraded to in line from outperform (PT $312 from $330) by Evercore ISI analyst George Galliers, who cited a "more cautious view" on Model 3 production; says at this point, has little insight into how production is running. More details from Bloomberg


Cuts Model 3 delivery forecasts for 2017 by 20k units, 2018 by 8k units, 2019 by 10k units and 2020 by 7k units
Continues to believe Model 3 is the most important piece of TSLA investment story in coming quarters; says 3Q production was clearly weaker than what TSLA expected, with 260 Model 3s produced vs a targeted "just over 1,500"
Best case scenario will be TSLA confirming Model 3 production "S-Curve" hasn’t changed substantially; instead, the curve has simply shifted 6 to 8 weeks out, with a 6 week delay inferring potential production of 10k units this year
However, suspects TSLA won’t have 100% visibility on the ramp until they hit >1k units per week, which, based off the "S-Curve" will only be reached towards the end of Nov.

Finally, as reported over the past week, amid its hellish production delays it was revealed that – following a veritable exodus of executives this year – Tesla had decided to lay off 700 factory workers to try and stanch a unionization effort. It’s now hoping to replace those workers with cheaper, contract workers. However, given these most recent news, the timing seems quite opportune...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...-missed-tesla-supplier-cuts-december-order-40
 

TeasePlease

Cockasian Brother
Aug 3, 2010
7,728
5
38
Tesla's Model 3 was intended to be a more affordable model
produced in larger volume. I wonder what that critical mass to
be achieved by Tesla is going to be.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oct 27, 2017

Just days after the Shanghai government was stunned to read in the WSJ that it had granted Tesla permission to open a new gigafactory in its free-trade zone (turns out the two are only in the negotiations stage), according to Taiwanese media reports one of Tesla’s largest suppliers in the country has been instructed to pare back production on parts for the Tesla Model 3 – the latest sign that the cash-burning Silicon Valley carmaker is going to miss its goal of producing 5,000 cars a week by December.

Hota Industrial Manufacturing Co, a Taiwanese automotive components maker and long-time Tesla supplier, has been told to dial back its production of Model 3 components from 5,000 units per week in December to 3,000 per week – a 40% drop, Taiwan’s Economic Daily reports and adds that Hota Chairman Shen Kuo-jung said that the company has received a notice from Tesla to reduce its December order quantity due to production “bottlenecks.”

Hota, which has supplied parts for Tesla’s Model S and Model X, began supplying components, including gears, for the Model 3 in May of this year. Though December orders have been cut back by 40%, Hota indicates that the company is committed to meeting the needs of Tesla’s upcoming production ramp and is scheduled to ship 10,000 parts in May or June, timing that was pushed back from an original March date.

The news follows a handful of embarrassing reports earlier this month, including the revelation that problems with the company’s assembly line had forced employees at Tesla’s Fremont factory to assemble cars by hand, which explains why the company delivered only a fraction of the 1,500 Model 3 Sedans it had promised to deliver by the end of the third quarter.

Tesla, which is set to provide a clearer picture of sales and production delays when it reports earnings on Nov. 1, also suffered another major setback earlier this week when Mercedes beat Tesla to the punch and revealed its E-Fuso Vision One electric semi-truck prototype just weeks before Tesla was set to reveal its own electric semi-truck. Elon had been forced to delay the unveiling because of the Model 3’s “production hell”, something he reiterated yesterday when he qualified it as "8th circle" of hell.

Adding insult to injury, Bloomberg published a lengthy feature this week criticizing Musk’s galling tendency to over-promise and under-deliver, citing the company’s ongoing struggle to complete an upgrade of its “Autopilot” systems to allow for fully autonomous driving. Tesla began selling the software more than a year ago at $8,000 a pop – and has so far failed to deliver any significant improvements. Unconvinced by Musk’s efforts to stall, Tesla owners have opted to sue.

The rollout of the Model 3 Sedan, which, priced at $35,000, was supposed to be Tesla’s big foray into mass market vehicles, continues to be plagued by problems. After losing the mantle of “most valuable US automaker” in July, Tesla’s stock has lagged again in recent weeks following the barrage of embarrassing headlines. But how much longer will it take for shareholders to realize that Tesla is floundering as rivals like GM and Daimler continue to outmaneuver Tesla, which famously burned through $13 million a day in the second quarter.

Not helping matters, and perhaps the latest inication that the Tesla hype bubble is finally bursting, Elon Musk's EV company was downgraded to in line from outperform (PT $312 from $330) by Evercore ISI analyst George Galliers, who cited a "more cautious view" on Model 3 production; says at this point, has little insight into how production is running. More details from Bloomberg


Cuts Model 3 delivery forecasts for 2017 by 20k units, 2018 by 8k units, 2019 by 10k units and 2020 by 7k units
Continues to believe Model 3 is the most important piece of TSLA investment story in coming quarters; says 3Q production was clearly weaker than what TSLA expected, with 260 Model 3s produced vs a targeted "just over 1,500"
Best case scenario will be TSLA confirming Model 3 production "S-Curve" hasn’t changed substantially; instead, the curve has simply shifted 6 to 8 weeks out, with a 6 week delay inferring potential production of 10k units this year
However, suspects TSLA won’t have 100% visibility on the ramp until they hit >1k units per week, which, based off the "S-Curve" will only be reached towards the end of Nov.

Finally, as reported over the past week, amid its hellish production delays it was revealed that – following a veritable exodus of executives this year – Tesla had decided to lay off 700 factory workers to try and stanch a unionization effort. It’s now hoping to replace those workers with cheaper, contract workers. However, given these most recent news, the timing seems quite opportune...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...-missed-tesla-supplier-cuts-december-order-40
yup, the model 3 is supposed to be the inflection point. But also, why Tesla is happy to share its tech with other manuracturers and why musk pissed off shareholders with the solar city deal. It’s all about volume and mainstream adoption.

Plus, musk has always said that the goal of Tesla was to show other OEMs what was possible. He just never admitted that he meant technologically possible, not financially feasible... lol
 
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