Garbage Strike - Give Me a Break
- Thread starter Thunderballs
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Again you make no reference. Which one your many detractors are you targeting your comments at.Mrbig1949 said:
They are internally democratic, they are organized on a majority principal, what do you want, the right to not contribute and reap the benefits at the same time? Not going to happen, they are a lot more internally democratic than oh I don't know, a share holders meeting of a major corporation.
Mrbig1949 said:
I have no problem with how unions are organized.
I have heard that many of the striking garbageman did not want a strike, but that a strike call is up to the leadership. I can not substantiate this, but if its true that seems inappropriate.
What I do care for is the assumption that unions deserve excessive wages or benefits (20+ sick days to bank every year..... WTF) & more importantly, that they take absolutely no responsibility for how it is to be paid for.
The assumption that my taxes can be raised to pay (or corporations profit can be reduced) for this excess is just plain not right
I've been called many things in my life by many people who know me better than you but I've never been accused of being a fan of Senator McCarthy or his methods.Mrbig1949 said:
Your references to MLK, Ghandi, an Mandela brought a smile to my face, trying to connect the selfish actions and decisions made by a bunch of unskilled workers in TO with the oratory and sacrifices made by those three men. I don't for a second think that you can relate to hardships and persecution experienced by their followers in the slums of Calcutta, the townships of South Africa, or the Southern states in the 60's It's laughable.
Any contract is the 'fault' of the two parties signing it. If banked sickdays are a problem then management shares the fault. Nice that city managers are trying to correct that 'fault', but let's not pretend they weren't part of it. No one sends innocent babes to negociate and sign contracts. If they weren't competent, they're hosing us taxpayers for their pay.JohnLarue said:
There was a time when banked sickdays were the flavor-of-the week in management circles because they were seen as a way to cut absenteeism. Which is persumably why management agreed to them in this instance. Absenteeism raises costs way beyond the initial unworked but paid for day. Not a good thing.
Your own 'use 'em or lose 'em' example's exactly why that was so. If I as a manager hafta accept a certain number of days will be taken as 'sick' but paid for, it's in my interest to make them as predictable as I can, and to have to bring in as few replacements, untrained, inexperienced or on OT as I can. So I encourage employees to keep coming in and take their sickdays in a cash payout on retirement. Way better.
That's the nutshell. Your example makes the same case: that employees are entitled to the sick days, or at least that they'll take them entitled or not. So you talk about jiggering calendars for the paid unworked days. But how is it cheaper to pay for those days year by year, than to bank that money and hand it to her on retirement? Same pay goes out to the penny, and you've save the incidentals and gotten the work done by the guy hired to do it.
There's better ways I'm sure to handle employee illness and injury time off, but I'm also sure none of them's without fault, abuses or costs somewhere that seem outrageous to someone. Like dirty dishes after dinner, that's just life.
It's quite clear unions drive you crazy, and I too am a taxpayer resentful of rising demands, but this is a bargaining process, and unions are a part of it. When one side wants to remove something from the new deal that was in the old it won't necessarily be easy. And perhaps they should have startedsooner and bargained cleverer. But letting the folks involved hash it out rather than dictating to them seems to to be appropriate or democracies. Bargaining too is just life.
And geez, it's just a bit of trash. I'm still filling my first bag. There's a lot worse hardships.
Somebody tell me, is the contract still in force. If not, it's time to put out tenders. Let's see what kind of work can be offered for how much. then we can talk about worth.
Remember those numbers from way back, which MB had no clue of, only 3 out of 444 municipalities in Ontario have contracted out the garbage service. Something's not working right. Let's fix it.
Remember those numbers from way back, which MB had no clue of, only 3 out of 444 municipalities in Ontario have contracted out the garbage service. Something's not working right. Let's fix it.
The contracts are still in force unless one side sends notice that it intends to abrogate (usually management) the contract and impose new conditions. This is seen in labour circles as a major provocation and escalation by management and will probably mean massive support from other unions, picket line violence and deep bitterness on both sides after the new contract is negotiated. Probably not a good idea.
I say, BULLSHIT!!!!!!! Unless of course you live alone, eat out a lot and crash on a lot of couches at other peoples places.oldjones said:
Toronto's garbage service DID collect 14 tons of garbage every day or 12.5 million tons a year (Toronto star). That's not 'a bit of trash'. I know you might challenge that figure, but The Star probably have an irrefutable source that I don't have at my fingertips. It's probably listed in some tome of an annual report at city hall.
I'm going to guess that your PJs are NDP colours. I know that's cruel, but it's clear you see the world through very different eyes than the majority of people on this BB and across the country. That's why the NDP is stuck around 16% annually.
Heard on the radio this morning.
1) 400 Summer job students have signed an online petition to urge the Premier to table back to work legislation. These workers WANT TO WORK!
2) These students are sayinng that union goons are forcing them to march in the picket line.
3) One student said that unions are ruining his life. First as a student at York U. (TA strike) and now as a "striking" lifeguard in the union. Didn't want to give his name for fear of the union "goon squad".
Anybody who doesn't believe me is free to call 680 NEWS.
1) 400 Summer job students have signed an online petition to urge the Premier to table back to work legislation. These workers WANT TO WORK!
2) These students are sayinng that union goons are forcing them to march in the picket line.
3) One student said that unions are ruining his life. First as a student at York U. (TA strike) and now as a "striking" lifeguard in the union. Didn't want to give his name for fear of the union "goon squad".
Anybody who doesn't believe me is free to call 680 NEWS.
Smoking cigarettes in no longer acceptable. I have NEVER been told to extinguish my pipe.JohnLarue said:
Sorry Player, you can't smoke a pipe at my place. Also, the only beer I have is Coors Light.a 1 player said:
I'm quite aware you say bullshit, no need to shout.blackrock13 said:
Nope, there are two of us, and the old blue and grey bins are just now getting to the top. The veggie scraps are nicely composting, and there's some meat and fish bits in the freezer. At current rates the cat litter will fill the green bin a month from now. Are you and yours really that slobby that you can't hold out? It is how you beat strikers you know.
You might want to re-check the solitary factoid in your post, about the tons of garbage: 14 tonsx365days in a year is only 5110 tons a year, not 12.5 million.
I wonder if your disdain for facts and accuracy might be accounted for by your fascination with my PJs, and obsessions about the NDP and The Star who you've dragged willy-nilly into more than this thread. But I suspect they're beyond accounting for at all.
Because freedom of association is a basic human right guranteed by the Charter. Unions are just guys facing the same situation choosing to negociate as one.JohnLarue said:
Last time my union's contract expired, it was the producers, joined to gether in their association who insisted we bargain with them as one. Are you saying, "Clearly they are out of touch with reality. The world is about change & perhaps it is best they adapt or become extinct" or does the gander get different sauce than you would force on the goose?
The world's full of unions, associations, guilds, societies, trade conferences, and alliances,—this very country is one, a federation—everyone of them looking to do exactly what unions do, get the best they can for their members.
But if as you say the time of unions has past, and they're withering, it would be a lot pleasanter if you could just let them get on with it, and spare us the exaggerated rants about 'extortion'.
Or if you're truly serious about 'extortion' there's lots of pols who'd appreciate the help in defining an illegal union in a way that wouldn't accidentally capture a political party, a political action committee, the National Manufacturer's Council or the Taxpayer's Federation, never mind the Bar Association and the CMA. We could get back to the days when union membership was criminal conspiracy, just figure out the law.
