Future of South Africa being decided today

[LancsLad]

You are thick as a plank, as Hugh Laurie said in Blackadder.

Don't even try to compare Bermuda, Canada and Hong Kong to
South Africa and Zimbabwe. That is below even your bar.

You may be right about free market and personal liberty. These concepts
were sorely missing in white dominated Rhodesia and South Africa.

Yes, yes the terrible whites and their language, medicine, technology and annoying productivity. That was then, this is now. Explain the differences between Hong Kong and India and others like say zimbabwestan. There must be something you can think of.

 

[kl33n]

So hows the domestic food supply going.


Take a hike with the "ignorant comment" comment. No amount of politically correct doublespeak can change reality. The formerly well off Rhodesia is now just another basketcase beggar nation.

I'm not asking you to be politically correct. I'm commenting on your ignorance about Zimbabwe's political history.

 

[danmand]

Yes, yes the terrible whites and their language, medicine, technology and annoying productivity. That was then, this is now. Explain the differences between Hong Kong and India and others like say zimbabwestan. There must be something you can think of.

I will be pleased to do that, as soon as you explain how the
apartheid regimes in Rhodesia and South Africa promoted free markets and
personal liberties.

As also kl33n says, you are sorely ignorant about the history
of southern Africa.

 

[kl33n]

A clue might be that they embrace a free market and personal liberty, there are others but you refuse to accept them.

They did that in the 1990s when they consulted the IMF and World Bank and these policies failed them miserably.

 

[LancsLad]

They did that in the 1990s when they consulted the IMF and World Bank and these policies failed them miserably.

Beggars can't be choosers.

Its the blame game, 2007 edition.

 

[Aardvark154]

What an ignorant comment. Mugabe's implementation of neo-liberal policies advice from the IMF and the World Bank are what drove Zimbabwe's economy to the ground. As Kwame Nkrumah once warned "Political independence, without economic independence, is but an illusion"

Oh come on! You honestly want to blame the results of ZANU-PF’s “land reform program” on the IMF and the World Bank! I anxiously await the proper Marxist-Leninist or is it Trotskyist explanation of why before the land confiscations Zimbabwe was a food exporting country and now it can’t feed itself!

 

[kl33n]

Oh come on! You honestly want to blame the results of ZANU-PF’s “land reform program” on the IMF and the World Bank! I anxiously await the proper Marxist-Leninist or is it Trotskyist explanation of why before the land confiscations Zimbabwe was a food exporting country and now it can’t feed itself!

This really isn't an issue of Marxism. Britain supported land-reform for the poor's benefit and contributed financially for land reforms in Zimbabwe. Once they realized there was widespread corruption behind Mugabe's land reforms they pulled out. What Mugabe engaged in was land gifts to the ruling elite, which is exactly why Britain stopped funding the land reforms program. I don't see how Marxism is being practiced here. Marx argues the opposite of what Mugabe did. My comment towards LancsLad was to point out that this is not a black or white issue (literally and figuratively).

 

[Aardvark154]

This really isn't an issue of Marxism. Britain supported land-reform for the poor's benefit and contributed financially for land reforms in Zimbabwe. Once they realized there was widespread corruption behind Mugabe's land reforms they pulled out. What Mugabe engaged in was land gifts to the ruling elite, which is exactly why Britain stopped funding the land reforms program. I don't see how Marxism is being practiced here. Marx argues the opposite of what Mugabe did. My comment towards LancsLad was to point out that this is not a black or white issue (literally and figuratively).

I see your point. But of course Mugabe took his actions knowing full well what the reaction of the international community would be. Somewhat like punching someone in the eye right in front of the police and then complaining of police brutality when arrested.

This situation in South Africa is potentially quite serious and there is a huge difference between English Settlers arriving in Southern Rhodesia/Zimbabwe in the 1890's and Dutch and Huguenot colonists arriving in 1652!

 

[obelix]

I will be pleased to do that, as soon as you explain how the
apartheid regimes in Rhodesia and South Africa promoted free markets and
personal liberties.

Danmand, just to get your facts straight - Rhodesia was racist, but it never had apartheid. There is a big difference!

 

[danmand]

Danmand, just to get your facts straight - Rhodesia was racist, but it never had apartheid. There is a big difference!

You are half right, of course. It was not called apartheid,
but there was not a big difference.

 

[kl33n]

I see your point. But of course Mugabe took his actions knowing full well what the reaction of the international community would be. Somewhat like punching someone in the eye right in front of the police and then complaining of police brutality when arrested.

I agree and it's typical rhetoric from a corrupt politician. However, several factors contributed to the Zimbabwe econonmy's downfall and this is what makes it more than a black and white issue.

 

[LancsLad]

I'm not asking you to be politically correct. I'm commenting on your ignorance about Zimbabwe's political history.

As I've said before:


Rhodesia= well off, exported surplus food, begs from no-one


zimbabwestan= corrupt, bankrupt, food beggar and financial welfare case.



Rhodesia had a political hstory, the current experiment in politically correct inmate run institutions, not so much.

 

[danmand]

As I've said before:


Rhodesia= well off, exported surplus food, begs from no-one


zimbabwestan= corrupt, bankrupt, food beggar and financial welfare case.



Rhodesia had a political hstory, the current experiment in politically correct inmate run institutions, not so much.

Why don`t you come out and state clearly, that you are in favour of
minority rule, and against democracy and personal freedoms.

Or else, stop stating that Rhodesia was OK.

 

[LancsLad]

Why don`t you come out and state clearly, that you are in favour of
minority rule, and against democracy and personal freedoms.

Or else, stop stating that Rhodesia was OK.

They are not mutually exclusive. You can't dispute that Rhodesia worked.


Don't worry about us lost souls here. Take your good fight to China and help their gov't to see the light.

 

[danmand]

They are not mutually exclusive. You can't dispute that Rhodesia worked.

Oh Yes, they most definitely are.

Rhodesia worked for a small racial minority. Similarly England was never governed better
than when King Knud ruled.

Oh f$/$, I took your bait again.

 

[LancsLad]

Oh Yes, they most definitely are.

Rhodesia worked for a small racial minority. Similarly England was never governed better
than when King Knud ruled.

England as a political unified entity didn't exist back then. Certain regions were periodically under foreign control but we always expelled them eventually after we stopped fighting amongst ourselves. Only with the advent of 20th century liberal spineless guilt was it possible for foreigners to invade successfully.


I would argue that a well fed and productive under rule of law majority pop in Rhodesia was better off than what they have now.

 

[xdog]

I agree and it's typical rhetoric from a corrupt politician. However, several factors contributed to the Zimbabwe econonmy's downfall and this is what makes it more than a black and white issue.

It has turned into a black and white thing. Mugabe took land from whites and gave it to black supporters.

Has Africa been affected by colonialism? Yes...

Has Africa been affected by poor leadership (black and white)? Yes

As for democracy in Zimbabwe; hasn't existed in years. not under black nor white rule.

x

 

[Anderson]

Capitalism , my socialist friends ( not you Lancs ) is the answer. In Africa, in the ME, and everywhere else ( Fidel and Kim, listen up ).

Ukraine has soil that is fertile enough to feed the entire world, yet cannot feed itself ?????


Capitalism is the answer.Very simple.

Not Swiss bank accounts that protects our tax dollars that goes from us to the dictators via all you left wingers ( not you Lancs ).

 

[kl33n]

You can't dispute that Rhodesia worked.

If it worked, it wouldn't have gone through more than a decade of war. Obviously some people were not happy, and that was the majority. The majority who had no right to vote and were ruled by an elite white minority. So you can pretend that everything was fine in Rhodesia, but the fact of the matter is, everything was not fine in Rhodesia, otherwise it's majority would have accepted its status as second class citizens.

 

[LancsLad]

If it worked, it wouldn't have gone through more than a decade of war. Obviously some people were not happy, and that was the majority. The majority who had no right to vote and were ruled by an elite white minority. So you can pretend that everything was fine in Rhodesia, but the fact of the matter is, everything was not fine in Rhodesia, otherwise it's majority would have accepted its status as second class citizens.

And what class are they now as they are killed in tribal conflicts or die of starvation in their utopian world.

.