Furnace Filters

  • Thread starter Thread starter GlavaMan
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GlavaMan

I have a high efficiency gas furnace. I buy the 3M Filtrete filters & replace every 3 months. A friend told me he knows a furnace tech who told him he should use the cheaper filters (10 to a bag etc) because they don't make your furnace work as hard & is better maintenance wise. Has anyone ever heard of this?
 
Yes I have, thick filters are restrictive and reduce air flow, I use the cheap Home Hardware filters and change them every 3 months or so.
 
guy27 said:
Yes I have, thick filters are restrictive and reduce air flow, I use the cheap Home Hardware filters and change them every 3 months or so.

Agreed. Thicker filters are a scam and overwork your furnace for nothing.

Just buy the cheapie ones (3 for $10 at Home Depot) and change them every month or two.

You also don't need your furnace serviced every year if it's a newer one....every couple of years is more than fine.
 
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I was using 3M filters because of allergies. The furnace guy just came and told me the exact same thing.
 
I use the cheap ones at home depot and change them about once a month. I have not had any issues with the furnace or allergies. When I install a new one, I write the date on it to keep track of how old it is and when it should be changed.
 
not only does the 3m filter make your furnace run less efficient, but it had been known to fill the air with tiny fragments of teflon if that matters to you.

the funny thing is they woven in teflon to reduce air drag and improve efficiency, but teflon doesn't permanently bound itself to the synthetic filter fabric. it flakes off whenever the fibres flex.

1 month changing isn't necessary unless you have a dirty house. 4 months was calculated as optimum by an environmental engineer in an article in CanadianMoneySaver magazine.
 
rubmeister100 said:
The "furnace guy" is usually an undereducated monkey who once he got his vaunted "Gas Fitter" license did NOTHING more to further his education.

The straight flat panel poly filter is intended for ONE thing only; to protect your furnace machinery from GROSS particulate contamination.

It does NOTHING to improve air quality until it is almost fully loaded.

A higher efficiency pleated filter is an excellent low cost way to marginally improve the air quality in your home by reducing airborne particles AND it will reduce the rate of accumulation of crap on the underside of your air conditioner coil.

New, the pleated filter has a pressure drop of less than 1/20" of an inch of water (a method of measuring very low pressures). THis is no different than a flat polyester media as the surface area is increased which helps to lower the pressure drop.

Most furnaces operate well up to 2" of water pressure drop ( a grossly clogged filter) but it is a good idea to change them at 1" of water. In fact, ALL the furnace manufacturers manufacture and sell their own high efficiency 4" deep pleated filter as an option. The blowers and motors have ABSOLUTELY no problem handling this.

In fact, the motor is really coasting when it is running with a forward curved impeller. It needs the power to start up but once it is running it is coasting.

Ironically, the majority of furnace fan motors fail due to motor overheating as a result of too frequent OVER oiling of the bearing (think annual service scam) and the subsequent collection of dust (that has got past the cheap filter) on the motor windings.

In real terms using a pleated filter may mean changing every one to four months depending on how dusty your house is, how often the windows are open etc.

However, there is really no need to go to the ultra high rated filters as the furnace does not move air vigorously enough to realy clean the whole house's air.

A MERV 8 to MERV 10 rated filter is perfect for a house.

Just make sure to change it BEFORE it caves in. THis is a good indicator that the filter is loaded up.

And I assure you that most Canadian trained "Furnace Guys" know little about ASHRAE standards, MERV, or anything except replacing parts.

FINALLY!!!! An intelligent man..

Thank you.

What's your opinion on winter covers for outdoor condensing units?
 
rubmeister100 said:
Unneeded.

I ask what exactly are they needed for? To keep the snow off? The snow will collect on a larger area without the top being open.

The downside includes reducing air circulation which can lead to corrosion. Also you have a damp piece of vinyl laying on the sheet metal all fall and winter and early spring.

These units are designed to be outdoors. Dampness is their enemy, not cold.

Agree. The ONLY time I thought one might be needed was a situation where the condensing unit was in an area where there was a weeping willow tree. They are such messy trees....I recommended a cover just to keep the debris out....although a piece of plywood on top would have worked as well, just not looked as "nice".

I remember in the "old days" (before the practice was to mount the condensing units on wall brackets off the ground), I used to see some condensor coil failures from corrosion from animal urine...dogs and particularly cats used them as scenting posts.
 
rubmeister100 said:
Tell me FACTUALLY how a 3m filter makes your furnace less efficient. I'm familiar with pressure drop, current draw, etc so feel free to use any terms your need to.

How familiar are you with delta T? Any HVAC/R service tech can tell you that the 3m filters, brand new out-of-the-wrapper, will increase your heating delta T by 10-12 degrees F versus the cheapo 3 for $10 ones.
Are you okay with that?
 
to-guy69 said:
You also don't need your furnace serviced every year if it's a newer one....every couple of years is more than fine.
What's considered "newer"? I'm guessing mine is (6 yrs.). Should it be done annually after it reaches a certain age? Does the same apply for servicing the condensor?

While we're in that area, I'm in the market for a humidifier. There's a drum-type one installed that is not working anymore. The tech who did the annual service recommended a newer type that dispenses water as needed (not sure what it's called). He said they cost about $450. Any advice from anyone?
 
rubmeister100 said:
Tell me FACTUALLY how a 3m filter makes your furnace less efficient. I'm familiar with pressure drop, current draw, etc so feel free to use any terms your need to.
How familiar are you with delta T in the afternoon? I have a suspicion my neighbour comes to my house in the afternoon through the backdoor and generates a lot of friction heat in my bedroom, at about the same time my SO releases some high pitched noises. I asked a guy at Homo Depot, but could not get a satisfactory answer.:confused:
 
rubmeister100 said:
Nope.

Old Wives Tale.

Of course I am familiar with temperature rise. And IF the delta t were increased, then that would seem to indicate an INCREASE in heat transfer efficiency!

The highest performance 3M 1" Filtrete filter has an initial pressure drop of 0.02" H2O. A moderately loaded poly filter is easily 0.75" .

The ONLY thing I can say against the pleated filters is that you have to be more vigilant in changing them.

NOT an old wives tale - 100% true. Like I said before, everyone in the trade knows this - you may be an engineer, or maybe just a know-it-all, but your above comments indicate lack of real-world relevant practical experience.

I am an HVAC/R mechanic; I mainly do commercial/industrial applications but often must do the residential equipment of the owners for which I have commercial contracts.
People buy the 3m filtrete filters as a cheap alternative to an actual HEPA filtration unit (which requires its own motor to overcome the additional resistance of the HEPA filters). The overwhelming majority of high-efficiency residential furnaces require a temperature rise of 45-75F; some are as low as 30-60F. Going back to the 45-75F DT, the average temp rise, with proper manifold pressure and firing rate, is usually around 58-62F. Throw in a 3m filtrete & your DT is now getting pretty close to the allowable upper limit of the manufacturer's spec's. Now, let that filter get a little dirty, since the Home depot guy tells the homeowner that the filter is good for at least 3 months, to justify charging whatever the hell they charge for those things ($25-$30 range?), and add in the fact that many homeowners often do silly things like closing off the basement & main floor supply registers to provide more heating/cooling to the top floor, and in a very, very, VERY short time your furnace will be tripping on the hi-limit switch. Now, if you have an insertion tube fan-limit switch, it will cycle on & off repeatedly - overheating, cooling down, overheating, cooling down, and you the homeowner will likely be none-the-wiser, but brother, you are stressing the hell out of your primary heat exchanger, until one day it cracks. That is not good & will get your furnace A-tagged& shut-down immediately, and it's usually during those -10F days of February. This is extremely common & most people will never be aware of it, until the day a "furnace guy" tells them (of course, with a thermal disc type limit switch it is possible that the homeowner may notice something is wrong in colder weather when the furnace goes into a 3-hour soft-lockout).
So, in my expert opinion, if allergies/asthma is an issue, get a HEPA unit. If you insist on using 3M filtrete, change them at least monthly (unless your house is not actually lived-in, but merely a display model that no-one ever uses & has better than 1992 NBC requirements for outside-air infiltration).

Now, I partly agree with your assessment of "furnace guys", but that's largely due to the same complaint that lots of tradesmen on this board complain about.....homeowners expect Cadillac quality at Kia prices. There are lots of less-than fully qualified "furnace guys" out there who are EXTREMELY busy working residential jobs at $50-$60/hour, because homeowners think the qualified ones at higher prices are a rip-off. Get an HVAC mechanic (or "technician", as is the more popular term), and he will have AT least the equivalent of 6 years of training (if done consequatively - most guys do it concurrently & can be done in 4).

If anyone is interested in seeing the reality of the situation as I've described above, you can often arrange for a ride-along with a HVAC or HVAC/R mechanic if you call up the bigger, well-known companies and ask (tell them you're interested in getting into the trade - the money is excellent and, generally chicks dig us because we are hot guys & cool dudes - that's an HVAC/R inside joke).
And that, my friends, is the final word on this topic.
 
Back to Glavaman's original question - I think I answered it in my long, rambling post, but here it is again: 3m filtrete filters, and similar style in-house brands are excellent filters but MUST be changed at least monthly, for the average household. If you can maintain that replacement schedule (and the cost of those things), and everything else in the furnace & ductwork is set-up properly, you might be okay using them. But, if you are like most people & maybe the house is lived-in, or you might forget to change the filter for a couple of months, or maybe your ductwork has problems, or whatever, save yourself the hassle & use the cheapo filters. If asthma or allergies are the reason for wanting 3M filtrete, that's only a band-aid solution & you should get a Hepa system. Incidentally, what's the make & model of your furnace?

And Rubmeister - I think I was right about you being an engineer, or maybe a consultant or instructor, or maybe you're an American. NATE certification doesn't mean much in this province (unless you're 1 of the above). There's probably less than 50 of you guys within 100 miles of the GTA, and if that's all you have then you are not legally recognized to do ANY of the fieldwork done by HVACR or even just heating/air companies. In Ontario, there are lots of licenses available for different fuels (oil, natural gas, propane, etc), but essentially you need at least the G2 license for gas, & the 313A or 313D license for a/c or refrigeration (or be an apprentice or have the g3 training license). I'm a G1 & red-seal 313a; I also have all sorts of bullshit certifications from HRAI & other trade associations, but it's the gas ticket & refrigeration license that get you a service job in the trade.
 
Okay, here's for the people who have PM'ed me with questions, and for anyone else who may be curious, and this will be the FINAL, final word on the topic:
If in doubt about your furnace, call an expert. That would be, in the province of Ontario, the holder of a valid Ontario certificate of Qualification certificate, level G2 or better. Companies that employee holders of these licenses must themselves be licensed by the TSSA. If your heating contractor doesn't display his TSSA number on his truck, he is not TSSA licensed - no ifs, ands or buts about it. No TSSA number on the truck and you are really rolling the dice on the quality of training & subsequently, service you will be getting. Quality service in any trade doesn't come cheap.

And not to pick on anyone, but comments made about blower motor failures as part of a service scam..... "Ironically, the majority of furnace fan motors fail due to motor overheating as a result of too frequent OVER oiling of the bearing (think annual service scam) and the subsequent collection of dust (that has got past the cheap filter) on the motor windings....." well, that pretty much also indicates lack of real-world relevant experience in the field. The majority of the furnaces made in the past 15 years (approximately) are direct drive motors, which are sealed & require no oil. If your blower motor is the type that requires oil, it is very likely a belt-drive motor & your furnace is very likely more than 15 years old - nothing lasts forever, folks, so if a 15+ year-old motor fails, don't be so quick to write if off as a service scam.

So, the final, FINAL word on this topic is - when it comes to your furnace, call a licensed contractor for a check-up ahead of time (ie, now) to avoid surprises in February. Unless you're already a customer of mine, or have commercial equipment that I can get the contract for, or you are an attractive woman who wears skimpy, or no, clothing around the house, I won't provide anymore chargeable expertise for free.

I hope that answers all the questions & I hope we all have an extremely long, cold winter & that none of you ever need to meet me professionally over that time.
 
The Cunning Linguist said:
FINALLY!!!! An intelligent man..

Thank you.

What's your opinion on winter covers for outdoor condensing units?

LOL oh fuck, there goes the ego!!!!

Hey Rub, seriously, you ever thought of teaching?