Friendly Fire
- Thread starter Dartman
- Start date
During Desert Storm, the US lost more troops due to friendly fire than to enemy fire. I.E. Yanks killing Yanks.
They have the nice toys, but they got too many damned cowboys
They have the nice toys, but they got too many damned cowboys
Whether or not...
...you believe Canada should have troops in Afghanistan, or if the U.S. should have troops in Afghanistan (the original mission of finding Osama Bin Laden seems to have gotten way off track hasn't it? And the Taliban is essentially back in power...), only the most IGNORANT of persons doesn't understand that "American interests" are Canadian interest too.
I remind (some of) you again that 1/3 of the Canadian economy derives DIRECTLY from trade with the U.S....as does 1 in 4 Canadian jobs.
Your elected leaders felt this was the right course of action. Disagree if you feel you should, elect new leaders if you feel you must. But don't be so stupid as to think Canada can just play "Switzerland" on the world stage, and pretend to be above and apart from it all.
I swear, now that I derive all my income from the U.S. some days I wish GWB (who I do not support BTW...) would just say "fuck...I'm gonna teach those ungrateful Canucks a lesson" and simply close off ALL trade between the two countries. I am sure the U.S. would somehow manage to get by without that 3% of the GDP trade with Canada represents...and while the looney sank as unemployment ran out of control here I would essentially become wealthier by the day.
All I am saying is that you would think people who take such pride in being "so polite" could be a bit more respectful in their tone towards a nation and its people to whom you can thank for your standard of living and your national defense...civil discourse that leads to disagreement is one thing...but this morning I listened to some arrogant twenty something know it all bitch on CBC essentially BRAG about how when she was in New York on 9/11, her friends created a website mocking the death of Americans in a drunken stupor...mocking the very people who had welcomed her to their country and allowed her to partake of an education. I listened as she made fun of a woman she saw who offered $500 to cabbie to take her to home...saying "that was so American"...like that bitch would not do anything she could INCLUDING offer a cabbie a blow job if it meant getting to her family and making sure they and she were safe. Arrogant, smug bitch...and there was CBC, broadcasting her asinine comments as though it were valid….because they wanted to get the “perspective” of Canadians who were in New York at the time of the attacks 5 years ago…
I am fucking sick of it...the arrogance…the judgment….the “we are Canadians, that makes us superior, now please build more auto plants here” attitude.
You don’t like American policies – fine. I don’t like them either. We can discuss and debate them until the cows come home.
You don’t like Americans? Then stop taking our fucking money…
Sorry...it was a rant, and perhaps not entirely directed at you. But I have been pissed off all day after hearing that bitch this morning...
matador29b said:
...you believe Canada should have troops in Afghanistan, or if the U.S. should have troops in Afghanistan (the original mission of finding Osama Bin Laden seems to have gotten way off track hasn't it? And the Taliban is essentially back in power...), only the most IGNORANT of persons doesn't understand that "American interests" are Canadian interest too.
I remind (some of) you again that 1/3 of the Canadian economy derives DIRECTLY from trade with the U.S....as does 1 in 4 Canadian jobs.
Your elected leaders felt this was the right course of action. Disagree if you feel you should, elect new leaders if you feel you must. But don't be so stupid as to think Canada can just play "Switzerland" on the world stage, and pretend to be above and apart from it all.
I swear, now that I derive all my income from the U.S. some days I wish GWB (who I do not support BTW...) would just say "fuck...I'm gonna teach those ungrateful Canucks a lesson" and simply close off ALL trade between the two countries. I am sure the U.S. would somehow manage to get by without that 3% of the GDP trade with Canada represents...and while the looney sank as unemployment ran out of control here I would essentially become wealthier by the day.
All I am saying is that you would think people who take such pride in being "so polite" could be a bit more respectful in their tone towards a nation and its people to whom you can thank for your standard of living and your national defense...civil discourse that leads to disagreement is one thing...but this morning I listened to some arrogant twenty something know it all bitch on CBC essentially BRAG about how when she was in New York on 9/11, her friends created a website mocking the death of Americans in a drunken stupor...mocking the very people who had welcomed her to their country and allowed her to partake of an education. I listened as she made fun of a woman she saw who offered $500 to cabbie to take her to home...saying "that was so American"...like that bitch would not do anything she could INCLUDING offer a cabbie a blow job if it meant getting to her family and making sure they and she were safe. Arrogant, smug bitch...and there was CBC, broadcasting her asinine comments as though it were valid….because they wanted to get the “perspective” of Canadians who were in New York at the time of the attacks 5 years ago…
I am fucking sick of it...the arrogance…the judgment….the “we are Canadians, that makes us superior, now please build more auto plants here” attitude.
You don’t like American policies – fine. I don’t like them either. We can discuss and debate them until the cows come home.
You don’t like Americans? Then stop taking our fucking money…
Sorry...it was a rant, and perhaps not entirely directed at you. But I have been pissed off all day after hearing that bitch this morning...
I don't know the particulars of this latest round of friendly fire killing. So, I won't judge. Most likely, it was a tragic mistake. It sounds like the Canadian troops called in the American fighters and the pilot made a mistake.
It happens, it was not deiberate.
Now, all that said, the first incident of friendly fire a couple years ago was a different story. That pilot - Schmidt, was told by the AWACS not to fire as the target had not been confirmed. But that cowboy said, "fuck orders, I'm going in" and the result was 4 dead Canadian soldiers.
That one I can't forgive.
That guy was told NOT to fire, he disobeyed orders, and the rules of engagement. He was a cowboy who for too long had never had the chance to use his weapons in a real situation and when the situation presented itself (or so he thought) he went in with guns blazing.
At the inquirey, he appologized to the victim's families, however, they all said that it was not genuine, that he qualified it with excuses and they could tell that he wasn't the least bit remorseful.
In the end, nothing happened to him anyway.
So, with the case of friendly fire, it's a case of let's see what happened first before we begin casting stones at the Americans.
It happens, it was not deiberate.
Now, all that said, the first incident of friendly fire a couple years ago was a different story. That pilot - Schmidt, was told by the AWACS not to fire as the target had not been confirmed. But that cowboy said, "fuck orders, I'm going in" and the result was 4 dead Canadian soldiers.
That one I can't forgive.
That guy was told NOT to fire, he disobeyed orders, and the rules of engagement. He was a cowboy who for too long had never had the chance to use his weapons in a real situation and when the situation presented itself (or so he thought) he went in with guns blazing.
At the inquirey, he appologized to the victim's families, however, they all said that it was not genuine, that he qualified it with excuses and they could tell that he wasn't the least bit remorseful.
In the end, nothing happened to him anyway.
So, with the case of friendly fire, it's a case of let's see what happened first before we begin casting stones at the Americans.
Unlike last time this aircraft was providing close air support to troops involved in extremely close quarter fighting... an error of 100 feet is all it would take, and that's damn easy to make a few hundred feet up at a couple hundred miles an hour.
The american military has a bad record for friendly fire incidents, but it happens to everyone. In this case, it is probably just what it seems - a tragic accident of war.
If we hadn't gutted our military so thoroughly we could provide our own close air support. We can't, so we have to depend on others. Any guy on the ground will probably tell you he'd rather have the air support than not even with the risk.
The american military has a bad record for friendly fire incidents, but it happens to everyone. In this case, it is probably just what it seems - a tragic accident of war.
If we hadn't gutted our military so thoroughly we could provide our own close air support. We can't, so we have to depend on others. Any guy on the ground will probably tell you he'd rather have the air support than not even with the risk.
MLAM said:
Please name me one thing that Americans buy from Canada out of the goodness of their hearts to support us lowly Canadians.
I can't for the life of me think of any. Seems to me that they buy Canadian products because they need them, or they are cheaper. Charity never enters the equation.
MLAM said:
You could start with oil.
The US does import more oil from Canada than any other country in the world. You go into shock waves when the Saudis even so much as sneeze, imagine boycotting Canadian oil and natural gas.
Kiss your mighty economy good bye because you'd essentially end up paying 10 bucks a gallon to feed your SUV there partner.
You'd end up unemployed as your entire economy froze in the dark you typical loud mouthed American.
BTW, the US sells more goods to Canada than any other country in the world. I think you'd feel that.
MLAM said:
1. The US does not defend Canada. Never has as far as I am aware. If there is any other country out there that Canada has to worry about being invaded by, it would the USA in my eyes.
2. Your attitude typifies why Americans are reviled all over the world. You seem to think that every other nation should kiss your ass and thank you for some god knows why reason. Get over yourself.
3. I can't speak to your example of your one 20 something bitch on the CBC, however, I do recall when US air space was closed on 911 all those American planes landing all over Canada and all those Americans being welcomed into Canadian homes for several days. Small communities like Gander Nfld took in thousands of virtual strangers and offered them food and shelter.
Maybe you could site me an example of some similar charity provided to Canadians in time of need by Americans cause I can't think of any.
Then there was Katrina when Canada sent several ship loaded with aid to N.O. and more men and equipment to the area than the US gov't. did. Georoge W. Bush remarked that when he landed in Mississippi I believe, the first aid workers he saw were Canadians.
Or how bout Frank Stronach who has built Canada town down in La. to aid those put out of house and home. In fact, he has done more for various local residents than the American gov't has.
1 year later and the place is still a wreck.
So, Mr. America, I am waiting for you to provide a similar example of American charity.
I doubt you will able to however.
MLAM said:
I am sick of the American attitude that everyone else in the world is somehow inferior to Americans and that we should all kiss your ass.
Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
MLAM said:
Again, name me those Canadian goods and services that Americans buy out of the goodness of their hearts. I can't think of any.
I read where during any conflict, allied troops ask that they not be placed near the U.S. troops. They're more scared of the cowboys than the enemy.
Bigbossfan said:During Desert Storm, the US lost more troops due to friendly fire than to enemy fire. I.E. Yanks killing Yanks.
They have the nice toys, but they got too many damned cowboys
Cobster said:Anyone notice (OR NOT notice), how this never made CNN, Fox news, etc?
Fucking pricks.
It was on Anderson Cooper 360 last night.
For anyone who hasnt heard comedian Geroge Carlin's bit on Euphemisms, listen to it! It relates directly to this.....and its a stitch...
Friendly fire happens in war. At the close support level it happens a lot easier and faster. That is not meant to diminish the tragedy and the pain felt by the family of the dead soldier, I am simply pointing out that in war if a mistake happens, and they do, people can die.
If you are a shipping clerk and put the wrong label on a box, it goes somewhere not expected, no-one dies yet it was a mistake. Those kind of civilian job errors don't make the news. In this case some glitch happened in the system tying the ground troops GPS location into the Warthogs targetting system. That kind of an error can and did cause a dead, that makes news.
In Desert Storm from round one almost all of Britains ground casualties came from friendly ( American fire).
The rate of FF is much lower now than in WW2 or Korea as the targetting and locating reference systems are so much better, but mistakes still happen.
So long as there is fluid movement around a battlefield there will be the opportunity for FF.
If you are a shipping clerk and put the wrong label on a box, it goes somewhere not expected, no-one dies yet it was a mistake. Those kind of civilian job errors don't make the news. In this case some glitch happened in the system tying the ground troops GPS location into the Warthogs targetting system. That kind of an error can and did cause a dead, that makes news.
In Desert Storm from round one almost all of Britains ground casualties came from friendly ( American fire).
The rate of FF is much lower now than in WW2 or Korea as the targetting and locating reference systems are so much better, but mistakes still happen.
So long as there is fluid movement around a battlefield there will be the opportunity for FF.
Yawn...how typical. Here...I'll help you understand...
"Please name me one thing that Americans buy from Canada out of the goodness of their hearts to support us lowly Canadians."
Not a one. And this would be the only intelligent thing you said in the whole post.
"You could start with oil."
The US does import more oil from Canada than any other country in the world. You go into shock waves when the Saudis even so much as sneeze, imagine boycotting Canadian oil and natural gas."
In case you had not been paying attention, the price of oil has doubled in the last 2+ years. Did the American economy collapse? Oil is a MAJOR part of the American economy...but in reality a relatively small portion. The price of gas is STILL cheaper in the U.S. than in Canada...has the Canadian economy collapsed? What about Europe? If you actually knew what you were talking about versus just sporting off shit, you'd know the except for the most poor the price of gas is a pretty inelastic commodity...meaning people bitch about it, but the keep buying it.
Perhaps you had not heard, or perhaps you aren't smart enough to figure this out, but there are about a DOZEN countries that export oil. And it all costs pretty much the same thing no matter where the source. Canada wants to stop exporting oil to the U.S? BE MY GUEST. Who else you going to sell it to? Hmm? Any other consumers of oil on par with the United States? Canada essential has one single customer for oil...and not another one close enough to deliver the product to.
Typical dumb ass Canadian arrogance..."we'll stop selling our primary export that can be secured from a dozen other sources to essentially what is essentially our only customer...that will show them".
"Kiss your mighty economy good bye because you'd essentially end up paying 10 bucks a gallon to feed your SUV there partner. "
Go read a book for crying out loud. Did you even take econ in H.S.? You can start with the 3 paragraphs above, and then finish off with the others ones I will type while I explain global economics 101 to you...
"You'd end up unemployed as your entire economy froze in the dark you typical loud mouthed American."
I think we have covered this already. Stick to escorts next time you want to post about something.
"BTW, the US sells more goods to Canada than any other country in the world. I think you'd feel that."
This actually may not be true anymore thanks to the growing economies of India and China...but let's assume it is. That figure is about $300 billion dollars...or about 3% of the U.S. economy. By comparison, that same figure represents a THIRD of the Canadian economy. Now I know you aren't real good with this numbers thing, but which do you think would hurt more...a 3% pinch of a 30% plus kick in the ass?
Here is something to keep in mind next time you want to smart mouth off about how dependent the U.S. is on Canada...the population and economy of California is larger than that of Canada. Canada is a G8 nation because the United States wants it to be one (does that qualify as charity?)...its economy and military are smaller than China, with India and South Korea nipping at its heels. Canada is a valued trade partner of the United States. HIGHLY valued. THIS is the most significant thing about Canada when it comes to the world stage. But once you learn how to add and subtract you will see that the relationship is NOT one of "par"...
"The US does not defend Canada. Never has as far as I am aware. If there is any other country out there that Canada has to worry about being invaded by, it would the USA in my eyes."
Canada is the only oil AND gold exporting nation in the world besides Russia. You don’t believe this of course, because you doesn't serve your purposes to think so, but I (and many others) and inclined to think that save for this little thing called ALASKA you'd be speaking Russian right now....because there is a HELL of a lot more reason to invade Canada than there was Poland or Yugoslavia or Hungry. You don't have to agree of course...I am sure the Canadian government signed all of those joint defense agreements in the 50's 60's and 70's because they were bored and didn't have anything else to do. Or out of the goodness of their hearts.
BTW...how are those subs doing? The ones you use to defend one of the largest and most rich coastlines in the world? The ones that leak? Don’t’ think the U.S. Navy isn’t defending Canada?
"Your attitude typifies why Americans are reviled all over the world. You seem to think that every other nation should kiss your ass and thank you for some god knows why reason. Get over yourself."
And your attitude reflects how out of touch with reality and ignorant (many) Canadians are. Canada depends on the United States for its economic viability. You don't have to like...you just need to take your ass to the Ford plant every morning…and I personally would prefer if you did it without insulting the Americans you depend on for your job along the way.
"I can't speak to your example of your one 20 something bitch on the CBC, however, I do recall when US air space was closed on 911 all those American planes landing all over Canada and all those Americans being welcomed into Canadian homes for several days. Small communities like Gander Nfld took in thousands of virtual strangers and offered them food and shelter.
Maybe you could site me an example of some similar charity provided to Canadians in time of need by Americans cause I can't think of any."
And Americans are grateful. And I am entirely confident that if the need arouse we would return the favor. So that give you a right to insult us every chance you get?
BTW - that "one bitch" isn't the first time I've heard things like that. Your rant would be a good example...
"I am sick of the American attitude that everyone else in the world is somehow inferior to Americans and that we should all kiss your ass."
That would be your Canadian inferiority complex talking....where did I post anything like that?
Tell you what...stop obsessing about Americans (2nd story on the CBC news late night broadcast...Katie Couric's first day on the job. THAT is what is important to Canadians??) and you probably can develop your own identity and will not feel so put upon...
Now stick to name calling, because trade and economics is CLEARLY not your strong suit
james t kirk said:
"Please name me one thing that Americans buy from Canada out of the goodness of their hearts to support us lowly Canadians."
Not a one. And this would be the only intelligent thing you said in the whole post.
"You could start with oil."
The US does import more oil from Canada than any other country in the world. You go into shock waves when the Saudis even so much as sneeze, imagine boycotting Canadian oil and natural gas."
In case you had not been paying attention, the price of oil has doubled in the last 2+ years. Did the American economy collapse? Oil is a MAJOR part of the American economy...but in reality a relatively small portion. The price of gas is STILL cheaper in the U.S. than in Canada...has the Canadian economy collapsed? What about Europe? If you actually knew what you were talking about versus just sporting off shit, you'd know the except for the most poor the price of gas is a pretty inelastic commodity...meaning people bitch about it, but the keep buying it.
Perhaps you had not heard, or perhaps you aren't smart enough to figure this out, but there are about a DOZEN countries that export oil. And it all costs pretty much the same thing no matter where the source. Canada wants to stop exporting oil to the U.S? BE MY GUEST. Who else you going to sell it to? Hmm? Any other consumers of oil on par with the United States? Canada essential has one single customer for oil...and not another one close enough to deliver the product to.
Typical dumb ass Canadian arrogance..."we'll stop selling our primary export that can be secured from a dozen other sources to essentially what is essentially our only customer...that will show them".
"Kiss your mighty economy good bye because you'd essentially end up paying 10 bucks a gallon to feed your SUV there partner. "
Go read a book for crying out loud. Did you even take econ in H.S.? You can start with the 3 paragraphs above, and then finish off with the others ones I will type while I explain global economics 101 to you...
"You'd end up unemployed as your entire economy froze in the dark you typical loud mouthed American."
I think we have covered this already. Stick to escorts next time you want to post about something.
"BTW, the US sells more goods to Canada than any other country in the world. I think you'd feel that."
This actually may not be true anymore thanks to the growing economies of India and China...but let's assume it is. That figure is about $300 billion dollars...or about 3% of the U.S. economy. By comparison, that same figure represents a THIRD of the Canadian economy. Now I know you aren't real good with this numbers thing, but which do you think would hurt more...a 3% pinch of a 30% plus kick in the ass?
Here is something to keep in mind next time you want to smart mouth off about how dependent the U.S. is on Canada...the population and economy of California is larger than that of Canada. Canada is a G8 nation because the United States wants it to be one (does that qualify as charity?)...its economy and military are smaller than China, with India and South Korea nipping at its heels. Canada is a valued trade partner of the United States. HIGHLY valued. THIS is the most significant thing about Canada when it comes to the world stage. But once you learn how to add and subtract you will see that the relationship is NOT one of "par"...
"The US does not defend Canada. Never has as far as I am aware. If there is any other country out there that Canada has to worry about being invaded by, it would the USA in my eyes."
Canada is the only oil AND gold exporting nation in the world besides Russia. You don’t believe this of course, because you doesn't serve your purposes to think so, but I (and many others) and inclined to think that save for this little thing called ALASKA you'd be speaking Russian right now....because there is a HELL of a lot more reason to invade Canada than there was Poland or Yugoslavia or Hungry. You don't have to agree of course...I am sure the Canadian government signed all of those joint defense agreements in the 50's 60's and 70's because they were bored and didn't have anything else to do. Or out of the goodness of their hearts.
BTW...how are those subs doing? The ones you use to defend one of the largest and most rich coastlines in the world? The ones that leak? Don’t’ think the U.S. Navy isn’t defending Canada?
"Your attitude typifies why Americans are reviled all over the world. You seem to think that every other nation should kiss your ass and thank you for some god knows why reason. Get over yourself."
And your attitude reflects how out of touch with reality and ignorant (many) Canadians are. Canada depends on the United States for its economic viability. You don't have to like...you just need to take your ass to the Ford plant every morning…and I personally would prefer if you did it without insulting the Americans you depend on for your job along the way.
"I can't speak to your example of your one 20 something bitch on the CBC, however, I do recall when US air space was closed on 911 all those American planes landing all over Canada and all those Americans being welcomed into Canadian homes for several days. Small communities like Gander Nfld took in thousands of virtual strangers and offered them food and shelter.
Maybe you could site me an example of some similar charity provided to Canadians in time of need by Americans cause I can't think of any."
And Americans are grateful. And I am entirely confident that if the need arouse we would return the favor. So that give you a right to insult us every chance you get?
BTW - that "one bitch" isn't the first time I've heard things like that. Your rant would be a good example...
"I am sick of the American attitude that everyone else in the world is somehow inferior to Americans and that we should all kiss your ass."
That would be your Canadian inferiority complex talking....where did I post anything like that?
Tell you what...stop obsessing about Americans (2nd story on the CBC news late night broadcast...Katie Couric's first day on the job. THAT is what is important to Canadians??) and you probably can develop your own identity and will not feel so put upon...
Now stick to name calling, because trade and economics is CLEARLY not your strong suit
