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Former NDP leader Tom Mulcair tells Canadians not to vote NDP

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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This not what is going on. The calculus has changed from more worry over domestic politics to more worry over international politics. Especially when it comes to trade.

Carney is seen, as better to deal with getting other trade deals.
Interesting and not unrealistic.

Anything backing that up other than your whims?

It really has little to do with "strategic voting". Voters are not that sophisticated. Or that organized.
People don't need to be organized to do strategic voting.
A huge part of that is done on an individual basis as voters assess things themselves.

The next few weeks are going to tell a lot. If things go down hill with Trump, then he may be seen as a liability.
Who will be seen as a liability?
Trump?
He already is, from everything I can see.

Right now he is enjoying a honeymoon. But these things can turn pretty quickly. Don't count chickens yet.
I've said from the beginning that I expect the race to tighten after the honeymoon bounce.
Pollievre can always fuck that up and, of course, exogenous shocks (such as Trump's behavior) can change the playing field as well.
 

DesRicardo

aka Dick Dastardly
Dec 2, 2022
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And?
Plurality voting has specific incentives.
One of those is to coalesce into a two-party system.

Right now, there is insufficient pressure to cause that.
I don't expect it to happen anytime soon.
(You're the one who suggested it in post #7.)

But that you see collapse like this when the threat seems high enough is telling.
If, for whatever reason, it seemed that the way the votes were split across NDP/Liberal meant the Cons could never lose then there would be STRONG pressure for a "Unite the Left" movement that might result in a single party.
It's a consequence of the election system.



I've never seen a CBC analyst be neutral on a subject.
They are brought in for their expertise and opinions.
And?
And that is why what you are saying is nonsensical. Dismissing facts isn't a response to the subject.

My post at #7 is clearly talking about the current election and merging voting meaning to funnel would-be NDP voters to Liberals.
How this got interpreted as the merging of two parties, I don't know. Which is why I had to add in "voting" in the post.

You witnessed what happened during the Liberal/NDP coalition. It brought both parties down heavily and had minimal success.
The two parties don't mesh.

When an CBC Analyst gives an opinion it is slighted to the Party they represent. Mulcair also provide an overall political viewpoint which makes him more neutral.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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And?
And that is why what you are saying is nonsensical. Dismissing facts isn't a response to the subject.
I haven't dismissed a single fact.

My post at #7 is clearly talking about the current election and merging voting meaning to funnel would-be NDP voters to Liberals.
How this got interpreted as the merging of two parties, I don't know. Which is why I had to add in "voting" in the post.
In that case, I apologize.
I interpreted that as merging the parties.
I am glad you have gone back an clarified it, since your original statement " I think it's more the left merging into one party." seemed pretty clearly to be about a merger of the two parties.

You witnessed what happened during the Liberal/NDP coalition. It brought both parties down heavily and had minimal success.
The two parties don't mesh.
A coalition has very different incentives than a merger.

When an CBC Analyst gives an opinion it is slighted to the Party they represent. Mulcair also provide an overall political viewpoint which makes him more neutral.
That doesn't mean he has no right to point out what he thinks is happening with voting.
 
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DesRicardo

aka Dick Dastardly
Dec 2, 2022
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It worked for them for the longest time, until it didn't.
It can work again if needed.
Politics is a fickle mistress.
This is a straight up Lie. It didn't work, Justin lost his job and Jagmeet was only holding out for his pension.

This is why we shouldn't vote liberal. It's just lies. But eventually the lies catch up.
 

Shaquille Oatmeal

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2023
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This is a straight up Lie. It didn't work, Justin lost his job and Jagmeet was only holding out for his pension.
Coalitions are one of convenience and political necessity. These are not marriages of love.
It worked as long as Trudeau had support and then it didn't when Trudeau lost support.
So it can work again.
 

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
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If there hadn't been a Liberal resurgence due to the timing of Trump poking the bear just as Carney was taking over, I think a lot of Libs might have gone NDP to stick it to Trudeau but not prop up PP.
The cards played out differently.
I agree If Trudeau was still in play, the NDP would have voted NDP, and a few might have even voted PC but Carney does change things. NDPers realize that to keep PEE PEE out, they must vote Liberal and respect Carney enough at this point and time to do so.

The only thing I agree with Butt on is things can change day to day and a slip up on Carney's part or some Trumputin tweet can completely throw it in the air. I also think it's anyone's election and I hate to admit by my toe dipps in Pee Pee winning it on the 28th.
 
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basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Its a tactic. Strategic voting. France did the same thing to stop the conservatives from winning plurality. Sadly a shift away from democracy and towards totalitarianism.
People voting for their second choice to prevent their most disliked party winning is an interesting definition of totalitarianism.
 
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basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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The Liberals have policies.
But this election is about ideology. Not policy.
The mistake the Democrats made in the last few elections was thinking that people care mainly about policy. I expect policy to be presented but I understand that many people's version of research is twitter.


As for the OP, it would be a reasonable argument is polling showed the NDP in a position to form a government or were in a close race with the Liberals.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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I agree If Trudeau was still in play, the NDP would have voted NDP, and a few might have even voted PC but Carney does change things. NDPers realize that to keep PEE PEE out, they must vote Liberal and respect Carney enough at this point and time to do so.
The lift is also bigger for people to rally to NDP to push out Cons vs rally to Libs.
The Libs have to crash and burn significantly for the more centrist anti-Con voters to go NDP, while the NDP voters have been more likely to vote Liberal for tactical reasons.

The only thing I agree with Butt on is things can change day to day and a slip up on Carney's part or some Trumputin tweet can completely throw it in the air. I also think it's anyone's election and I hate to admit by my toe dipps in Pee Pee winning it on the 28th.
I still slightly favor the Cons winning, since I think the campaign will blunt some of the "Fuck no, Trump" vibe that is clinging to Pollievre. He will have the ability to defuse that over time.
I agree with both you and Butler (as I have been saying all along) that there is always a major gaff or major outside event that can upset the apple cart.
We already saw that. This was a walk-away victory by the Cons in early February. Look at it now.
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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People voting for their second choice to prevent their most disliked party winning is an interesting definition of totalitarianism.
It seems it becomes that when it might frustrate certain people, though.

The mistake the Democrats made in the last few elections was thinking that people care mainly about policy. I expect policy to be presented but I understand that many people's version of research is twitter.
Just how far down policy is in importance compared to vibes has been something of a harsh lesson for me.
I knew policy was much less important than I would like, but just how unimportant it is for most voters shocked me.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
62,658
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...

Just how far down policy is in importance compared to vibes has been something of a harsh lesson for me.
I knew policy was much less important than I would like, but just how unimportant it is for most voters shocked me.
But Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.

The movie Idiocracy is as dumb as it is funny but it's a sad commentary on how few people care to go beyond slogans.
 
Ashley Madison
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