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Fantanyl Deaths

rhuarc29

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2009
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Drug users don't deserve to die. With help they can recover and lead long productive lives.
Not to my knowledge. Of all the heavy drug users I've known in my time, not a single one has made something of their lives. It doesn't matter if you try to help them yourself, or have them seek professional help...they all just sink deeper in the end.
Recreational users have better luck, but they're skating on the edge of falling into that first category.

While I have sympathy for the lives heavy drug users lead, I believe responsibility falls on them, 100%. Do I wish them dead? No. But it's not like we aren't fully educated on the harmful effects of drugs.
 

trippingwalker

Active member
Apr 1, 2015
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Not to my knowledge. Of all the heavy drug users I've known in my time, not a single one has made something of their lives. It doesn't matter if you try to help them yourself, or have them seek professional help...they all just sink deeper in the end.
Recreationalusers have better luck, but they're skating on the edge of falling into that first category.

While I have sympathy for the lives heavy drug users lead, I believe responsibility falls on them, 100%. Do I wish them dead? No. But it's not like we aren't fully educated on the harmful effects of drugs.
Ok, disclaimer, i'm not trolling or trying to be a prick, just looking to engage in a meaningful discourse so as to have a more nuanced and thorough understanding of your subjective point of view!

So the consensus is that approximately 2% of the general population is addicted to a substance. I completely understand that you are referencing your own personal direct experience - after all, isn't that all we really have? But the real question is how many people do you know? How many drug addicts do you know? Typically certain substances are associated with different lifestyles, different levels of risk, and certain kinds of people. The real questions becomes one of lifestyle. Do you really know a lot of people who use heroin, crystal meth, or cocaine? Furthermore, do you know really know that many heroin addicts, methamphetamine addicts, or cocaine addicts? About 45% of addicts relapse which means that more than half overcome their addiction! You must know a lot of shitty people who defy the odds. Your circle of eccentric drug users is a statistical anomaly. I say that as someone who has been using certain substances with certain people for about half my life.

Regarding the claim that everyone's been educated on the harmful effects of drugs: i call fucking bullshit on that, immediately. Most people know nothing about "Drugs". The word "Drugs" in and of itself is the problem because pollutes the well of language and makes it impossible to have a sensible conversation about the range of substances, their effects, levels of risk, potential for addiction, how they are intended for use, etc. Shopper's Drug Mart sells the "good" drugs that help people while the government wages an impossible-to-win war against drugs. The whole thing is trivial. The result is we have literally generations worth of people who have absolutely zero sophistication about substances. Your teachers, priests, parents, and politicians lied to you. The police lied to you. The television commercials lied to you. We've been fed lies forever. The reality is that people are not educated about substance use and substance abuse.

The problem with all these drug overdoses is that people are overdosing on drugs they don't know they're taking. Fentanyl is basically the LSD of opioids in terms of potency because it is, in fact, active at the microgram level (millionths of a gram for an effective dose). This means that you're overdosing at the milligram level. That's an insanely toxic and dangerous LD50 profile. So why is it being used to cut every illegal white powder? because it's cheap as fuck to buy and even cheaper to manufacture at industrial levels. People are going to cut powdered opioids with fentanyl strictly for profit. It's rare - but documented - that sellers will cut stimulants/amphetamines/phenethylamines with fentanyl because the effects are incongruent and someone might catch on. Therefore people are overdosing on substances they don't even know they're taking.

Most heroin users will know their preferred effective dose and will revel in it. That one time they get impure heroin cut with fentanyl will more than likely lead to a serious overdose if not death. Most people can't get samples tested, don't have access to chemical reagents for testing, and buy their substances from questionable sources.

The only solution is for all drugs to not only become decriminalized but to become legalized. That's the only way people are going to become educated. People will then be able to make informed decisions.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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Not to my knowledge. Of all the heavy drug users I've known in my time, not a single one has made something of their lives. It doesn't matter if you try to help them yourself, or have them seek professional help...they all just sink deeper in the end.
Recreational users have better luck, but they're skating on the edge of falling into that first category.

While I have sympathy for the lives heavy drug users lead, I believe responsibility falls on them, 100%. Do I wish them dead? No. But it's not like we aren't fully educated on the harmful effects of drugs.
The cousin I mentioned above was on and off drugs through his life. When not using he taught community college and was apparently a well-liked and talented teacher. He was fortunate in his career because academia is unionized and tolerant and his collective agreement funded his rehab stints.

My dad was an alcoholic and a pillhead and was functional and financially successful much of the time.

I'm sure other people could supply similar lists. And you could always ask Keith Richards, I guess.
 

SkyRider

Banned
Mar 31, 2009
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Your teachers, priests, parents, and politicians lied to you. The police lied to you. The television commercials lied to you. We've been fed lies forever.
Not sure everybody lies but a lot do. A lot of people also have their own agenda. When I read an article in a business magazine saying that cellphones are 1,000% safe, I am somewhat skeptical. Unfortunately, a lot of people are also gullible.

The only solution is for all drugs to not only become decriminalized but to become legalized.
I wouldn't be surprised if more people die from legal drugs than the illegal ones. Didn't Prince, Michael Jackson, Heath Ledger, etc. died from legal drugs?

Now that doctors have stopped prescribing Oxycontin, some users are now turning to street drugs.
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,069
1
0
Not to my knowledge. Of all the heavy drug users I've known in my time, not a single one has made something of their lives. It doesn't matter if you try to help them yourself, or have them seek professional help...they all just sink deeper in the end.
Recreational users have better luck, but they're skating on the edge of falling into that first category.

While I have sympathy for the lives heavy drug users lead, I believe responsibility falls on them, 100%. Do I wish them dead? No. But it's not like we aren't fully educated on the harmful effects of drugs.
Completely agreed,...time to face reality.

But some tend to always want to blame some one else for the results of their irresponsible life style.

And governments wanting to make illegal drugs available at "clinics", how that is to correct the "drug problem",...is anybody's guess.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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They were saying on the news they found traces of fentanyl in the urine of marijuana smokers.
Leading some to believe weed is now being laced with fentanyl.

Not sure what to make of that. Sounds like bullshit
 

Galseigin

Banned
Dec 10, 2014
2,119
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My dad was an alcoholic and a pillhead and was functional and financially successful much of the time.

I'm sure other people could supply similar lists. And you could always ask Keith Richards, I guess.
Clearly the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree....
 

Phil C. McNasty

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Dec 27, 2010
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Ahahahhahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa......:D
 

Galseigin

Banned
Dec 10, 2014
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Not to my knowledge. Of all the heavy drug users I've known in my time, not a single one has made something of their lives. It doesn't matter if you try to help them yourself, or have them seek professional help...they all just sink deeper in the end.
Recreational users have better luck, but they're skating on the edge of falling into that first category.

While I have sympathy for the lives heavy drug users lead, I believe responsibility falls on them, 100%. Do I wish them dead? No. But it's not like we aren't fully educated on the harmful effects of drugs.
Maybe the guys you know didn't do very well, but there are many that turn around and change their lives. Its a complex situation one of the hallmarks is loss of control.
 

FAST

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Mar 12, 2004
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Phil C. McNasty

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Dec 27, 2010
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And imagines that will stop drug abuse and deaths how,...???

But I guess he figures he earned his six figure salary by making that initiative
Its not a he, its a she.

With all due respect FAST, I have to disagree with you on this one. The war on drugs is an abject failure, decriminalizing this stupid garbage is the only way to go (just like we have in Holland).

The same morons who do heroin now, are the same ones who will do it tomorrow.
You're not really changing anything.

Will it prevent all fentanyl OD's, probably not.
But at least addicts feel they can go seek treatment as opposed to being looked at as criminals.
Also, money from LE can be freed up and spent on treatment


EDIT: I also wanna add giving heroin addicts their stupid drug means they wont have to rob people to get their fix, so this in turn reduces violent crime by quite a bit
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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Just makes it easier, cheaper and safer for addicts to get their fix. Probably end up with more drugs and more overdoses
This hasnt been the case in countries which decriminalized all drugs, in fact the opposite happened
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,069
1
0
Its not a he, its a she.

With all due respect FAST, I have to disagree with you on this one. The war on drugs is an abject failure, decriminalizing this stupid garbage is the only way to go (just like we have in Holland).

The same morons who do heroin now, are the same ones who will do it tomorrow.
You're not really changing anything.

Will it prevent all fentanyl OD's, probably not.
But at least addicts feel they can go seek treatment as opposed to being looked at as criminals.
Also, money from LE can be freed up and spent on treatment


EDIT: I also wanna add giving heroin addicts their stupid drug means they wont have to rob people to get their fix, so this in turn reduces violent crime by quite a bit
Agreed that how the drug problem is being not handled now, is not working.

And decriminalizing it will most definatly reduce crime.

But somebody with guts has to make a stand sooner than later,...with welfare handouts,...and the increasing pressures of life,...pussyfooting around the problem is NOT going to solve it.

The current philosophy will only prolong the problem, not fix it.

Unfortunately it would take a lot of tax dollars and civil servants to fix it,...and nobody wants to go there.
 

Occasionally

Active member
May 22, 2011
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The only reason any government would decriminalize something is when they've figured out how to make money off it.... smoking, booze, gambling, weed etc.... all sins and all can lead to health issues. But the second they can muster up some kind of process and cash in on it, it's a green light to help the coffers. From there, all they do is plaster some images of smoker's lung and add that 2 pt font at the bottom on a Casino Niagara ad for 1 second (know your limit, play within it). And to the government that's good enough warning.

And then it's all about raking in the $$$.

As for druggies, who cares. They want to get themselves into a mess, let them get out. There's enough government offices and hospitals who can help them. People only live on this earth for so long, and I have zero interest putting my time and money to help weirdos who should have helped themselves. I've put in enough effort going to school, not doing anything stupid like smoking and drugs, and have so far lead to a comfortable life. That's what happens when you don't do anything dumb. It's actually not hard in Canada to just lead a normal decent life. I'm not saying it's easy to become a millionaire living in Rosedale, but just going through the western process of high school, university, not doing anything dumb and just following the usual path that people tell you to follow and it leads to a decent life.

Not hard.

And if you are hooked up and double income even better. For me, I'm single, so 100% of home life and financial responsibilities are on my shoulders. There's nobody else at my home to cover me if I lose my job.

So if a single guy can make it, everyone can. And it's not like I'm some IQ 200 Einstein. Just don't do anything stupid and your chances of success improve.

People are smarter than you think. Unless someone is mentally handicap and doesn't know any better, 99% of people know drugs are bad for you, smoking is bad for you, sitting at home and drink 10 beers a night can lead to alcoholism. People know exactly what the consequences are. It's not like you drink a few beers and suddenly you are an alcoholic. Or snorting cocaine once and suddenly you want to do it every night. It takes time and repeating the actions that leads to hardcore issues.

So people have time to try it once and get out. But they keep doing it knowing it. So forget it. Let em rot.

It's like the bum on Yonge St asking for a dollar. Well, maybe if you tidied yourself up a little, maybe I will give a dollar (which I have). But if you are going to act like a mess, smell like weed and take my buck (and everyone else's hand outs) and hit the LCBO or the closest variety store to buy smokes, forget it. I'd rather take my dollar and buy something at Dollarama.
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,069
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A little too much reality there Occasionally.

Too many do gooders want to blame everybody else than the irresponsible losers.
 

Occasionally

Active member
May 22, 2011
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A little too much reality there Occasionally.

Too many do gooders want to blame everybody else than the irresponsible losers.
Yeah.

Don't get me wrong, living in a nice western world is great, but it sure has transformed into a babysitting nanny state where every asshole points the finger at someone else for their issues.

What ever happened to just being a man (I don't mean that in a sexist way), and being responsible for your own actions? It's not like we live in a country where a corrupt government or violent rebels crack down on everyone's life and people are told what to do.

Canada, US, UK etc.... are all places people have freedom to do what they want, buy what they want, and carve their own path of life till they eventually die. Some people succeed, some people scrape by, some people crash and burn.

And lets fact it. Most people who crash and burn are in that situation because they fucked up. Fix your own path. Now if someone was born handicapped, or had their house burn down in Fort McMurray, or something completely out of their control then sure a safety net is reasonable to care for people dealt a shitty hand.

But for those people (and they know who they are), are screwing around snorting cocaine and boozing up 24/7, thinking it's all fun and games to chill out half comatosed, don't look at me for a hand out. Go to the government. And be lucky that in western worlds, the governments will still help you out even if they know you're a loser and that money comes from guys like me from taxes.
 

Polaris

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2007
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hornyville
Agreed that how the drug problem is being not handled now, is not working.

And decriminalizing it will most definatly reduce crime.

But somebody with guts has to make a stand sooner than later,...with welfare handouts,...and the increasing pressures of life,...pussyfooting around the problem is NOT going to solve it.

The current philosophy will only prolong the problem, not fix it.

Unfortunately it would take a lot of tax dollars and civil servants to fix it,...and nobody wants to go there.
I think, drug addictions doing hard drugs, probably belong in rehab for a long time, which should mandatory. Petty criminals supporting a drug habit belong in jail. Let them out when they are clean. Give them harsh sentences.

This is the problem I have with it.

This is a symptom of the decay of western civilization. Like it's dying.

The kids cannot afford to buy a house, provided if they even have a job. Then they live alone, single, no kids. And everyone is on drugs. Is this western civilization? Is that civilization, period?

To put hard drugs into your veins, that is like putting poison into your veins.

Not only the kid does it, society wants them to do it.

It's cool, says your friends and Hollywood. Also, if you should slip up and become an addict, the government is here to help.

Would Plato or Astitoile approved of this shit we see from the kids and the government? This drug epidemic is a blight.
 
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