Entrapment

Alexis696969

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Oct 19, 2005
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Will someone here please tell me the laws on this in Canada .....Im not going to say where or from who .....but this word has been coming up by a few strangers to my attention ....Im semi -retired so i dunno why it would pertain to my situation ,however it might be useful to know if it truly does exsist here .....or is it only in the States ?

Thank you


Alexis
 
I do believe in Canada it is quite different than the states, here short of tricking you into thinking you are not doing anything wrong then busting you there is no such thing as entrapment, weather it be buying a bag of pot or visiting a SPer, being a SPer, buying or selling hot merchendise, whatever, if it is you that is breaking the law and it doesn't matter how they caught you, they can tell you they are anybody, they can even sell you the stuff, you show up to partake, "BAM" busted!!!, same thing as the cop who is a streetwalker undercover, that's as close to entrapment as you can get in my mind, it is you who gets busted not her [him for the girls but I don't see that often} IMHO.
 
How is it different from the States ?...I dont get it .......

Can the le try to use entrapment on sps for outcalls as well as incalls ?

my friend is saying yes they can for even outcalls ...which i dont get cause oucalls are legal !..I have never seen this happen ever except for when a city had a by-law and the girl wasnt liscensed .
 
Existence of Defence
A remedy may be obtained where, as a result of unfair law enforcement practices, the accused is induced to commit an offence: Mack (1988) (S.C.C). The test for entrapment has two branches: It should be noted that the accused need not satisfy both branches of the test formulated in Mack in order to succeed on an entrapment application: To succeed an accused must establish on a balance of probabilities that either:

1.) The authorities did not act on reasonable suspicion when they provided the accused with an opportunity to commit the crime alleged or they were not acting pursuant to a bona fide inquiry; or

2.) That the authorities, although acting on such reasonable suspicion, and pursuant to a bona fide inquiry, went beyond providing the accused with an opportunity to commit the alleged offence and induced the commission of that offence.

Entrapment is not, properly speaking, a "defence," but only grounds for a stay of the proceedings as an abuse of the court's process. The "rationale for recognition of the entrapment doctrine lies in the inherent jurisdiction of the court to prevent an abuse of its own process". It is only available in the clearest of cases.

The decision of the Supreme Court in Mack presently stands as the fullest and most authoritative discussion of entrapment.

Meaning of Entrapment
1. Entrapment occurs when

(1) the police, without reasonable suspicion that the target is already engaged in related criminal activity, provide the target with an opportunity to commit an offence; or

(2) the police have the reasonable suspicion noted in (1), but go beyond providing an opportunity to commit an offence and actually induce the commission of an offence.

2. It is permissible for the police to offer to a person, about whom they have no reasonable suspicion that he or she is engaged in criminal activity, an opportunity to commit an offence if that person is located in an area in which the police reasonably suspect such criminal activity is occurring.

3. The onus falls on the accused to prove on a balance of probabilities that entrapment has occurred. However, there is authority for the proposition that if the Crown is in sole possession of information which relates to the "reasonableness" of the police suspicion that the target was involved in criminal activity, then a failure to provide the defence with that information may well result in an adverse inference being drawn against the Crown (i.e., an inference that the information possessed by the Crown would demonstrate that the police suspicions about the accused were "unreasonable").

4. The relevant time when determining whether the police had a reasonable suspicion that the target (accused) was engaged in criminal activity is when the opportunity to commit a related offence was given to the accused by the police.

5. A "reasonable suspicion" is more than a "mere suspicion" and less than "reasonable and probable grounds". It equates to "articulable cause" and "is dependent on both the content of the information provided to the police and its degree of reliability". Further, "the police are entitled to rely on untested informants as the basis for the first step in making a bona fide enquiry and where that bona fide enquiry confirms the information, the police are entitled to continue the investigation, absent any activity that would amount to importuning".

6. If the police are simply "going along" with a scheme which had been suggested by the accused him or herself, it cannot be said that the police are inducing the accused to commit the offence.

7. Whether the police have gone beyond providing an opportunity to commit the offence and actually induced the accused to commit the offence must be determined on the facts of each case.

8. The law of entrapment applies to regulatory offences, but

(1) the nature of the regulatory offence (e.g., does its violation attract social stigma similar to a criminal offence?); and

(2) the extent to which other methods of enforcement were available to the police,

will have an effect on whether or not the police must have had a reasonable suspicion that the accused was already involved in similar offending conduct when the police provided him or her with an opportunity to commit the regulatory offence. If a reasonable suspicion on the part of the police is necessary, the points set out in (1) and (2) will have an effect on whether or not a standard of reasonable suspicion lower than that which applies in criminal cases should apply in the particular regulatory offence before the court. These matters must be decided on a case by case basis.
 
Outcalls are legal

Alexis696969 said:
well thanks but im not hiring a lawyer to find out if entrapment exsists for outcalls ..in Canada


Outcalls are legal in Canada. In the U.S. ALL prostitution is illegal, except in Nevada and then you have to work in one of the brothels.

Incalls are not legal but only rarely enforced, usually as a response to complaints.

"Communicating for the purposes" is also illegal so don't make deals in a public places like bars and careful what you say over the phone..
 
Alexis696969 said:
Thanks Joebear for taking the time post all that !

Damondean i know they are legal ..thats why i didnt understand why entrapment would be ever part of the equation .

It wouldn't ever be part of the equation with outcall UNLESS there were something illegal about the outcall service--such as child prostitution or something like that.

Potentially LE could go after the drivers or the agency and in that case maybe they might try to entrap a driver or agency owner, but there's no point in trying to entrap a customer or escort in an outcall situation since there's no crime to be entrapped in.
 
Joebear's post is quite accurate.

Damodean is correct except for one thing: a telephone conversation is not a communication in public... you can say what you damn well please!

Perry
 
Tnx

Perry Mason said:
Joebear's post is quite accurate.

Damodean is correct except for one thing: a telephone conversation is not a communication in public... you can say what you damn well please!

Perry


Thanks. I just don't trust telephones (or e-mails) as far as total privacy goes. Phones get tapped for a variety of reasons and the info can be useful to LE or others even if not used in court.
 
entrapment is not a true defence.

A true defence negates either the mens rea (the intent to do something) or the actus rea (the act itself) components of a criminal offence.

the entrapment defence comes only into play when a finding of guilt has been made by the court.

the first post is legalese but this my attempt to dumb it down for nonlawyers.

you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it.

i.e The police go beyond providing an opportunity to commit an offence and actually induce the commission of an offence. Also it is how aggregious when inducing the offence is what will tip the scale whether the entrapment defence is successful.
 
DonQuixote said:
I agree.

The law is about causation.

Who initiated the initial contact?
Was it the LE or the hobbyist?
If the LE initiated the contact then
the causation is with the initial actor,
the LE.

Who initiated the engagement?
And how did the event occur?
Did he solicit her, or did she solicit
him? Who was the primary actor?

We know what the objective was.
That's not relevant.

causation, don't confuse tort law with entrapment. for those nonlawyers, thats personal injury law.

dude you don't know what you are talking about. period !
 
Alexis696969 said:
Damondean i know they are legal ..thats why i didnt understand why entrapment would be ever part of the equation .

While outcalls are legal, there is still room to get yourself in trouble. For instance, girl goes to a hotel on an outcall and the client meets her down in the lobby area to get by security easier. As they get into the elevator, he asks clarification about how much she needs and she answers him. Just like that, she is now guilty of communication in public (as the elevator is still very much a public space). The police could easily burn outcall SPs who get lazy and let their guard down, so be educated and protect yourself.
 
DonQuixote said:
And what jurisdiction do you practice in?
That's the law where I practice my profession.

I would expect you to ask me questions about
my position before playing smash-mouth with me.

obviously you don't criminal law law in Ontario.

I don't have to ask questions about your position soley judging from your posts.

where did you go, clown school ?
 
I think i just a heard a judge call a recess ....an ordered you both to get laid by an sp so theres less tension !!!!!!


funny thing is it turns me on to watch lawyers debate.....as long as its not on my dime ....im game LMFAO :p

infact i used to date lawyers when i was a sp ,so while they were screwing everyone else ,so was i , .....wink wink lol.....now back to our regular scheduled program US vs Canada laws .....this could take centuries LOL