Education "Reform" & The Finland Phenomenon

[onthebottom]

Same as with health care, it is not the money that is the problem. It is the distribution of the spending.

The ruling class does not understand that it is in the countries best interest to have everybody educated to his/her ability. The ROI is staggering if you do a business case. Canadians also do not get it, so there.

That's simply ill aligned with the facts.

Education spending in the US is massive yet the results are poor, not because of the level of investment. If we can ever move beyond the "throw money at it" argument we can start to address the real issues.

OTB

 

[danmand]

That's simply ill aligned with the facts.

Education spending in the US is massive yet the results are poor, not because of the level of investment. If we can ever move beyond the "throw money at it" argument we can start to address the real issues.

I fully agree that it is not a question of throwing money at it. There is however a serious lack of equality in the US education system (Canada's also) compared to socialist countries like the ones north of the alps in Europe, France included.

 

[Aardvark154]

If greater equality in the education system is the key to everything, then France is obviously still doing something very wrong when one looks at the great problems they have with ethnic North Africans who have grown up in France.

 

[onthebottom]

I fully agree that it is not a question of throwing money at it. There is however a serious lack of equality in the US education system (Canada's also) compared to socialist countries like the ones north of the alps in Europe, France included.

I'm sure some of the poorest schools in the US have Korea level per student spending... but again I don't think that's the issue.

OTB

 

[WoodPeckr]

Education spending in the US is massive yet the results are poor, not because of the level of investment. If we can ever move beyond the "throw money at it" argument we can start to address the real issues.

The real issue is the growing problem of the disintegration of the basic family unit in the USA. Little Johnny and Jane aren't going to learn much if their personal lives are unstable and in turmoil. US Job LOSSES is a major factor here putting US families under more stress and strain than ever before....:frown:

 

[oldjones]

I think you'll find that the US spends more per student and as a % of GDP than Korea: http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/45/48/37864432.pdf

So we can agree money isn't the issue.

Wonder if Korea has teachers unions that make campaign contributions?

OTB

And Finland spends more. Are you gonna blame Finnish teachers for contributing to their pols' campaigns? Do try to be relevant.

Point is if your constant refrain is 'money and making it is all that counts' and 'money is the only measure of success' then your teachers are gonna do the same as anyone else: maximize their financial return. As with GM and Chrysler, the quality of the product will become secondary. But you will turn out bankers who swindle and execs who beg really well.

No other country so devalues working towards non-monetary goals as the USA. OK, maybe post Soviet Russia. But don't expect any improvements as long as a significant part of the electorate votes for the magical message that the way to a better nation is to pay less for it.

Whether it's schools or SEAL Team 6 we're considering, that does not work. But it will give you a presidential candidate who lies about the national history she doesn't know.

 

[danmand]

I'm sure some of the poorest schools in the US have Korea level per student spending... but again I don't think that's the issue.

OTB

It's the inequality, xxxxxx.

 

[onthebottom]

And Finland spends more. Are you gonna blame Finnish teachers for contributing to their pols' campaigns? Do try to be relevant.

Point is if your constant refrain is 'money and making it is all that counts' and 'money is the only measure of success' then your teachers are gonna do the same as anyone else: maximize their financial return. As with GM and Chrysler, the quality of the product will become secondary. But you will turn out bankers who swindle and execs who beg really well.

No other country so devalues working towards non-monetary goals as the USA. OK, maybe post Soviet Russia. But don't expect any improvements as long as a significant part of the electorate votes for the magical message that the way to a better nation is to pay less for it.

Whether it's schools or SEAL Team 6 we're considering, that does not work. But it will give you a presidential candidate who lies about the national history she doesn't know.

While a mildly amusing anti-American rant (so typical of Napoleon complex ridden Canuks) this doesn't align well with the facts either.

OTB

 

[onthebottom]

It's the inequality, xxxxxx.

If the poorest do as well as the Koreans are they disadvantaged XXXXXX?

OTB

 

[danmand]

If the poorest do as well as the Koreans are they disadvantaged XXXXXX?

OTB

Why are you comparing americans to the Koreans (north or south)? A reasonable comparison of american education would be with Germany, France, scandinavia etc.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Why are you comparing americans to the Koreans (north or south)? A reasonable comparison of american education would be with Germany, France, scandinavia etc.

He likes the better numbers he sees....

 

[onthebottom]

Why are you comparing americans to the Koreans (north or south)? A reasonable comparison of american education would be with Germany, France, scandinavia etc.

Korea (South) was referenced in the original post.

If you prefer Germany then you'll notice that the US spends more both as a % of GDP and per student than does Germany: http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/45/48/37864432.pdf

OTB

 

[Rockslinger]

The real issue is the growing problem of the disintegration of the basic family unit in the USA.

I was watching comedian Dana Fitzerald(sp) on CTV a couple of weeks ago. She said she met people from her ethnic group who have 7 brothers and sisters, same mother but 7 different fathers.

 

[Mervyn]

The finns created the Dudesons.

No system is perfect.

 

[danmand]

Korea (South) was referenced in the original post.

If you prefer Germany then you'll notice that the US spends more both as a % of GDP and per student than does Germany: http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/45/48/37864432.pdf

OTB

For the 3rd time, xxxxxx, it is the inequality.

PS: did you notice your favourite country, Denmark on the graphs.

 

[Rockslinger]

For the 3rd time, xxxxxx, it is the inequality.

Yes, I agree. Why do some men have 14 inch cocks and others don't? Hee, hee, hee.

 

[onthebottom]

For the 3rd time, xxxxxx, it is the inequality.

After years of reading Pekkkr's posts I would think you'd understand that repetition does not equal quality.

PS: did you notice your favourite country, Denmark on the graphs.

Yes, but it's so small (half the population of Ohio) it's not a valid comparison.

OTB

 

[danmand]

After years of reading Pekkkr's posts I would think you'd understand that repetition does not equal quality.

I have also learned that some terbites, one in particular, ignores pertinent facts if they do not fit his ideology.

 

[WoodPeckr]

After years of reading Pekkkr's posts I would think you'd understand that repetition does not equal quality.

Spoken for truth!!!

Your endless Bubba thread and past droning of about how 'Dubya Delivered Real Economic Performance'....while Dubya was taking the US economy into the shitter, was proof of that!....:amen:

Bet you use an Apple Obfuscation app to help you post some of the crap you post, FFS!

 

[Rockslinger]

My boss and his brother were born to a family of modest means (read poor) in Parkdale. They won hockey scholarships to an American Ivy League university. They are now each worth over $100 million each. The American school system did not fail them.