DUI Questions

Keebler Elf

Keebler Elf

The Original Elf
Aug 31, 2001
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The Keebler Factory
So one of my cousins got picked up for driving while over the legal limit last night. Car towed and 90-day license suspension. He's got to go to court in April/May.

What's he looking at in terms of punishment? I'd imagine a hefty fine and points? It's his first conviction for anything. Plus the hit on insurance.

Anyone been through this before? Can a lawyer do anything?
 
First thing I'd do is go to the MOT website and get the correct info there.

But yeah, second thing I'd do is get a lawyer because having this on his record is going to screw him big time insurance wise. I have heard horror stories about someone's insurance going from $1200.00 a year to $10,000.00. So much that he just stopped driving which screwed him too because he was a sales rep that needed his car for business.

I personally think it will be hard to beat because unless he wasn't actually drunk, or didn't actually have x number of drinks and can prove that, he's got no case. The only thing he can hope for is that the evidence was mishandled or the cop doesn't show....
 
No question get a lawyer, especially one who specializes in DUI.

He is basically fucked. The lawyer will help him get the minimum amount of damage from this, but he is fucked nontheless.
 
I guess he wasn't paying attention to all those "Don't Drink and Drive" commercials.

His insurance alone is going to clip his wings so badly he's done.
 
First offence, no accident, no injuries, no jail time.
IF found guilty/pleads, one year license suspension, mandatory interlock, mandatory alcohol counseling (he pays and there is a long waiting list this often delays the license reinstatement), insurance goes up, and LAST BUT NOT LEAST, a criminal record, this is a CRIMINAL offence not merely a traffic offence. Depending on his occupation he may have further problems.

GET A LAWYER.
A good lawyer that deals with impaired/over .80 has an excellent chance of getting an acquital. This is not the guy in the mall who does your will and divorce for $499. If he is in the GTA pm me for a name, A/V rated in Martindale and Hubbel, specilizes in impaireds. Charges around $7,500 as a block fee. No, it is not me, yes it is someone I know.

There are a large number of issues a good lawyer looks at;
was there valid cause to be pulled over,
timing of the breathe demand,
evidence to the contrary,
issues surrounding the administration of the breathe test,
issues around the equipment maintenance,
time to get through the courts, etc. etc. etc.
if the police make a substantive error in one = reasonable doubt = acquittal.
 
If there was lawful excuse to stop him and administer a roadside test, and if he blew more than .8 at the station, it is very difficult, but not impossible, for a lawyer to get him an acquittal -- no matter how much the lawyer's fees are.

The cops who now work on these squads are (usually) very experienced and seldom make the kinds of mistakes they used to make in the past and made it possible for a good lawyer to drive a hole through the Crown's case.

In that case, a plea bargain is his best option.

But it is important to get an opinion from a lawyer who knows what s/he is doing so that the threshhold questions can be properly assessed.

Today, most judges have very little sympathy for anyone that drinks and drives.

Perry
 
Perry Mason said:
In that case, a plea bargain is his best option.
Click to expand...


Thank God there are lawyers like you who want to always want to cut and run by pleading. Makes real litigators look like miracle workers for simply doing their job.

Perry ol' chum, care to comment on the difference in penalty between a plea and a trial on a first offense over 80. Here's a hint, there is none. So better to at least take the shot at the trial.

If the guy does not have a criminal record, a plea to a criminal offense can be devastating. There can be an impact on all areas of his life, border crossings, family law disputes, employment. So let's just drop the client straight into that big barrel of shit rather than running a trial with the possibility of an acquittal.

The exception is if he can get a plea that takes it out of criminal court and he pleads to a high end traffic offense, such as careless driving. Still has a big impact on insurance and the like, but nothing close to a first criminal conviction.
 
Friend hired $10,000 Lawyer for his son because first offens and there was an accident. Won first trial for what ever reason. Crown has appealed and it is now being decided. If it is decided against his favour, lawyer says he will appeal that decision....etc etc. Upshot $10000 legal fee is now getting closer to $50000. It has been 3 years since offense, and kid still can't drive or get insurance. My opinion, take your lumps and get it over with... a lot cheaper.
 
declined said:
Perry ol' chum, care to comment on the difference in penalty between a plea and a trial on a first offense over 80. Here's a hint, there is none. So better to at least take the shot at the trial.
Click to expand...
Depends on each case... I have made some very good plea deals from time to time... sometimes not!

At the very least, the one year suspension starts to run immediately and the 90 day is wiped out because it runs concurrently...

You must think you are a lawyer... since you seems to know so much, why don't you tell us? :rolleyes:

A good lawyer knows the difference between when to fight and when to fold. Only a crappy lawyer thinks that fighting it is always the best case scenario... of course, it usually is for his bank account, but a good lawyer puts his client's interests first.

A judge always has discretion on sentence (not on the mandatory or minimums, of course) and the breaks always go to the defendant who pleads rather than the one that takes a trial in a hopeless situation...

And, do you think all the other consequences are any better if you roll the dice and take your chances?

Perry
 
declined said:
The exception is if he can get a plea that takes it out of criminal court and he pleads to a high end traffic offense, such as careless driving.
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And please do tell us which Crown Attorney or judge allows that to happen?

Only in your fantasies. :p

Perry
 
Perry Mason said:
Today, most judges have very little sympathy for anyone that drinks and drives.

Perry
Click to expand...

Neither do I.

If your friend is guilty, I hope they throw the book at him and he pays the price through the nose. Jail time, then a bit of community service picking up dog shit in the park is fine by me. Insurance 10 grand a year, too little, make it 20 grand a year.

Next time, maybe he'll think twice about drinking and driving.

I have 0 sympathy for anyone who drinks then thinks he can do what the fuck he wants and climb behind the wheel.
 
It can happen

Perry Mason said:
And please do tell us which Crown Attorney or judge allows that to happen?

Only in your fantasies. :p

Perry
Click to expand...

Friend of mine was charged in Peel year and a half ago with DUI. Plead to careless driving so no conviction for the DUI charge. Still had the 90 suspension on the driving record but no record for the imparied so no mandatory interlock on the ignition.
 
Hightop said:
Friend of mine was charged in Peel year and a half ago with DUI. Plead to careless driving so no conviction for the DUI charge. Still had the 90 suspension on the driving record but no record for the imparied so no mandatory interlock on the ignition.
Click to expand...
Must have been one of those cases where the evidence of DUI was, at best, marginal or the cops made some crucial mistakes and the police "overcharged" in order to encourage a plea on the lesser offence.

That is why each case depends on its own facts.

If the evidence of DUI was reasonably solid, it just does not happen.

But if you want to think otherwise, by all means go ahead... go get drunk, drive and get arrested... see if you can perform some magic. And do enjoy yourself!

Perry
 
I hope your friend's lesson's already learned—not that the legal system will know or care, but the rest of us sure do, and some good should come from all the trouble.

The worst, but perhaps the cheapest aspect, is the criminal conviction, and pardons are of questionable value. American border guards say, "So some other country pardonned you, ours didn't". While a record check may come up clean after a pardon, as the Quebec judge found out, when they ask "have you ever been convicted of a criminal offence?" you're not entitled to say "No". Put the paperwork from the trial in a safe place, so it's easy to know when the waiting period's passed and where to tell them to look for your record when you apply; they don't take criminals at their word.

Some jobs will be harder to get. Some places will be harder to go. That said, they haven't stopped me at the border yet. Just because they can, doesn't mean the US border guys do look for your record. Don't give them any reason to.

Due to chronic underfunding of the courts and perhaps 'creative scheduling', it will take a good long time for the case to be heard. Quite likely the 90 day suspension will end, and he'll be back driving for many months before the trial that takes his license for real. He would not want to screw up in that period and prove he's a slow learner.

OUr legal system depends on folks making a vigourous defence, so best of luck to your friend, but—from one who knows—there is no excuse for drinking and driving.
 
I've talked to him and he's very, very sorry for what he did and the effects that are going to come down on him. He's not trying to get off scott-free and he knows he made a very bad decision. I give him credit that he's not trying to make excuses and he knows he's going to pay for his mistake.

He's really worried about a criminal code conviction b/c it will cost him his job and basically ruin his life. The suspension, the fines, the treatment program, the insurance, that's all to be expected. He just had no idea it would cost him his job.

And that's not to make light of what could have happened had he hit someone. I think he just feels so fucked right now that throwing the book at him isn't going to change that.
 
Perry Mason said:
Must have been one of those cases where the evidence of DUI was, at best, marginal or the cops made some crucial mistakes and the police "overcharged" in order to encourage a plea on the lesser offence.
Click to expand...


I love it. You simply cannot admit you got it wrong.
Your ego is now driving your comments. You took a firm stand in an area of law that is out of your depth and you have to keep arguing to save face.

Plea bargains from a DUI to careless occur in every courthouse in the GTA, no I am not going to list the names of the Crowns involved on a prostitution web site. They are very unusual, but they regularly occur, if a competent defence lawyer has reviewed the facts, and they are presented properly to the Crown at a pretrial it is a possibility.

DUI in Ontario has mandatory minimums, plead guilty you get the minimum. Have a trial on a first offence, found guilty, 99% of the time you get the minimum.

Perry you are wrong and you cannot admit it. This is why people hate lawyers, they think they are always right, and the charge more than SP for something that they could never deliver, classic B&S.

Done with this thread, so go ahead and have the last word.
 
If you will explain what "very unusual, but they regularly occur" means, I'll try to answer your criticism.

And what is the fact situation I described but an example of the kinds of "unusual" things you must be able to explain to a Crown and judge?

You just have a hate-on for lawyers because you don't understand how we think. You think when we talk in generalities we are talking in absolute terms: we, on the other hand, take it as a given that for every general rule there is at least one exception...

I did say that each case depends on its own facts, did I not? And that what is possible depends on each case? Isn't that "good enough" for you?

Perhaps you are confused by your own assumptions and interpretations?

Perry
 
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