Dubya's AmeriKKKa Angers Nations

WoodPeckr

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Pentagon Guantanamo List Angers Nations


Thursday April 20, 2006 11:01 PM

By PAUL GARWOOD

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) - A chorus of complaints against the Bush administration erupted Thursday after the Pentagon released a previously secret list of the names and nationalities of 558 people held at the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay.

Britain said its citizen should be freed after being held for years without charges. Afghanistan's peace and reconciliation commission vowed to send a delegation to the prison to make sure Afghans are not being mistreated. China demanded custody of a group of Muslim separatists so it can prosecute them on terrorism charges.

The list, released Wednesday under orders of a federal judge in a Freedom of Information lawsuit filed by The Associated Press, may provide the first proof of life to families whose relatives have disappeared, said Antonella Notari, spokeswoman for the International Committee of the Red Cross.

About 490 detainees from about 40 countries are now at the base. The Red Cross - the only outside agency the United States has allowed to visit the detainees - previously had access to the list but was not allowed to make it public.

The information stirred anger in many countries. In Pakistan, a senior official said it shows Washington concealed information about its citizens. Egyptian and Jordanian security officials said none of their citizen detainees had criminal records or known terrorist connections. Activists in Mauritania and Bahrain demanded freedom for their citizens, who are approaching their fifth year without trial.

In Afghanistan, the Taliban's former ambassador to Pakistan, who was held from 2002 to late 2005 in Guantanamo Bay, said the world deserved a better idea of who remained behind bars and whether they committed any crimes.

``I think it is good that everybody knows about the situation in Guantanamo Bay, but still nobody knows what the future is for these people who are still in jail,'' the white-turbaned Abdul Salam Zaeef said in his heavily protected Kabul home.

``I don't want these people to be released without having a fair trial, because only then will the world see that America doesn't have any evidence to justify holding them for four years.''

Bahrain's Human Rights Society said it petitioned the U.S. Embassy for the release of three remaining Bahraini detainees and for guarantees that their treatment does not violate international law.

One of them, 32-year-old Juma Mohammed Al Dossary, has attempted suicide 10 times, gone on a hunger strike and been force-fed, U.S. officials have said. Three other Bahrainis on the list, including a member of the royal family, were released in November.

The Pentagon list is incomplete: It identifies only Guantanamo detainees who had ``enemy combatant'' hearings. More than 750 people have passed through the high-security detention center, located on a U.S. Navy base at the southeastern edge of Cuba, since it opened in January 2002.

The Pentagon has not revealed the status of the vast majority of detainees, a secrecy apparently extended even to U.S. allies in the war on terror. A Pakistani Interior Ministry official, who requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter, reacted angrily to the list, saying there were more Pakistani nationals in the prison than Washington had previously disclosed.

The official, who is familiar with his country's efforts to win freedom for detainees, said Pakistan had thought seven of its citizens were at Guantanamo when actually there are 22.

``It is a fact that they have been concealing information from us about our people detained at Guantanamo Bay,'' he told AP.

Beijing claims the 22 Chinese nationals on the list include violent Uighur separatists fighting for an independent state called ``East Turkestan. U.S. officials have sent a number of Guantanamo detainees to their home countries to be prosecuted - including six Frenchmen now awaiting trial on terrorism charges - but has said the Uighurs cannot be returned to China because they likely will be tortured or killed.

The appearance of the Pentagon list, which coincided with Chinese President Hu Jintao's trip to meet with President Bush, brought the diplomatic dispute into the public eye.

``We hope the American side would repatriate the terrorists,'' Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said in Beijing. ``East Turkestan is a part of the international terrorist force and casts a serious threat to international societies including China and the U.S.''

Even Britain, America's strongest ally in the war on terrorism, said Thursday it has requested the release of a longtime British resident on the list, saying Foreign Secretary Jack Straw wrote recently to U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice asking that Bisher al-Rawi be returned to Britain.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5769345,00.html
 

papasmerf

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So who helps you find all this crap?
 
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Sympathy for terrorists and their supporters. Alot of that going on around here.

Let's all play "the victim game".

Wrong place at the wrong time innocent victims and do-gooders mistakenly, and only thru blind-misfortune and simple bad luck became wrapped up in the whirlwind of terrorism.

Show me a terrorist detainee and I'll show you an innocent victim and a misfortunate child of peace and love.
 

*d*

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rogerstaubach said:
Sympathy for terrorists and their supporters. Alot of that going on around here.

Let's all play "the victim game".

Wrong place at the wrong time innocent victims and do-gooders mistakenly, and only thru blind-misfortune and simple bad luck became wrapped up in the whirlwind of terrorism.

Show me a terrorist detainee and I'll show you an innocent victim and a misfortunate child of peace and love.
Terrorists?? Where? Where is the evidence proving their guilt? Or are they POWs? Oh sorry, I forgot there are some on this board that support fascism and don't consider these detainees as prisoners or humans, and therefore have no US or international human rights at all.
 

papasmerf

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Big Sleazy said:
The link is above. It's from the Guardian. Great newspaper by the way.

BS
Never heard of it

How is the sports section?
 

Big Sleazy

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papasmerf said:
Never heard of it

How is the sports section?
Don't take this the wrong way papa but if you've never heard of the Guardian, you really shouldn't be commenting on anything in this section.

BS
 

papasmerf

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Big Sleazy said:
Don't take this the wrong way papa but if you've never heard of the Guardian, you really shouldn't be commenting on anything in this section.

BS
Don't assume that because a rag agrees with you that it is good
 

Big Sleazy

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papasmerf said:
Don't assume that because a rag agrees with you that it is good
Go to the Guardian and read it. Then come back and comment whether it's good or bad.

BS
 

danmand

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*d* said:
Terrorists?? Where? Where is the evidence proving their guilt? Or are they POWs? Oh sorry, I forgot there are some on this board that support fascism and don't consider these detainees as prisoners or humans, and therefore have no US or international human rights at all.
Is keeping someone detained for 5 years without trial the american way? Is that what the US is trying to deliver to the middle east? One would be excused to think that Saddam Hussein was a poster boy for that kind of justice.
 
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*d* said:
Terrorists?? Where? Where is the evidence proving their guilt? Or are they POWs? Oh sorry, I forgot there are some on this board that support fascism and don't consider these detainees as prisoners or humans, and therefore have no US or international human rights at all.
Terrorists you ask? Certainly not one single soul cocooned in Gitmo, Bagram, CIA black holes could even remotely be considered anything but an innocent, in the wrong place at the wrong time child of peace and love.

Dang that fateful randomness of misfortune and unwise career choices that befell these innocents.
 
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danmand said:
Is keeping someone detained for 5 years without trial the american way? Is that what the US is trying to deliver to the middle east? One would be excused to think that Saddam Hussein was a poster boy for that kind of justice.
In a word YES.

You are unaware and/or unwilling to believe nor accept the facts about Gitmo. Judicial, legislative and adminstrative oversight. Detention review hearings on a consistent basis.

Those deemed to not pose a threat anymore are being released. Those who pose a threat are detained. Those who are alleged to committed acts that amount to crimes are tried by a competent panel.
 

WoodPeckr

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rogerstaubach said:
In a word YES.

You are unaware and/or unwilling to believe nor accept the facts about Gitmo. Judicial, legislative and adminstrative oversight. Detention review hearings on a consistent basis.

Those deemed to not pose a threat anymore are being released. Those who pose a threat are detained. Those who are alleged to committed acts that amount to crimes are tried by a competent panel.
Yeah right rogie......you just keep popping them OxyContins......:rolleyes:

Funny thing though, Saddam seems to be using your very same above posted defense in his present ongoing 'Kangaroo court' show trial!

Poor ole Saddam says he did all that too when he was in power!



In many ways Dubya &
Saddam think alike !!!
 

*d*

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rogerstaubach said:
In a word YES.

You are unaware and/or unwilling to believe nor accept the facts about Gitmo. Judicial, legislative and adminstrative oversight. Detention review hearings on a consistent basis.

Those deemed to not pose a threat anymore are being released. Those who pose a threat are detained. Those who are alleged to committed acts that amount to crimes are tried by a competent panel.
What is this -some kind of joke? You're saying the prison system at Guantanamo bay is in the American way -or in Bush's" the constitution is only a piece of paper" fascist way? Its still in the US courts if Gitmo can be considered a prison at all. The UN wants it closed. The names of the detainees have only now been released, but only by court order, 5 years after the prison opened. And your trial 'by a competent panel' has been considered a farce because of its unfair and prejudice military tribunal system. Its only been by international pressure that 30% of the detainees will finally be sent back to their home countries. So don't give us your quack idea that Gitmo is run fairly, the 'American way'.
 

*d*

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rogerstaubach said:
Terrorists you ask? Certainly not one single soul cocooned in Gitmo, Bagram, CIA black holes could even remotely be considered anything but an innocent, in the wrong place at the wrong time child of peace and love.

Dang that fateful randomness of misfortune and unwise career choices that befell these innocents.
22 today are now considered innocent -finally 5 years after being detained. Good fair system you got there. Wonder how many others are innocent if a fair trial was possible?
 
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*d* said:
What is this -some kind of joke? You're saying the prison system at Guantanamo bay is in the American way -or in Bush's" the constitution is only a piece of paper" fascist way? Its still in the US courts if Gitmo can be considered a prison at all. The UN wants it closed. The names of the detainees have only now been released, but only by court order, 5 years after the prison opened. And your trial 'by a competent panel' has been considered a farce because of its unfair and prejudice military tribunal system. Its only been by international pressure that 30% of the detainees will finally be sent back to their home countries. So don't give us your quack idea that Gitmo is run fairly, the 'American way'.
1) No *d*, this is not a joke but reality. Sad that you are unable, incapable and unwilling to differentiate between a legitimate military detention center during wartime from some quaint alturistic notion of "they are just ordinary innocent civilians".

2) Congress has legislated the legitimacy of Gitmo. The courts may have some bearing on procedures.

3) The UN is irrelevant.

4) Releasing a full list of names to the media and for media purposes is just that. The vast majority of detainees passing thru Gitmo and detained at Gitmo have had their names and information released NOT to the media BUT to the responsible gov't authorities of the detainees homeland.

4) Military tribunals have been a strategic element of conflicts for centuries and centuries. All detainees have the right to address their concerns to legitimate judicial authorities. So basically, your pandering as usual for terrorist rights and liberties is a farce.

5) Many, of the detainee's home gov't's don't want their terrorists back. many detainees don't want to leave Gitmo. The Americans are to release another batch of 200 or so detainees who no longer pose a threat. Who wants them. Not their home gov'ts that is for sure. Why don't you lodge some of them in your own home and tell us(if your still alive) just how nice and innocent and peaceful these good ole folks are.

Gitmo is here. It is real. Gnaw on that for a bit.
 
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*d* said:
22 today are now considered innocent -finally 5 years after being detained. Good fair system you got there. Wonder how many others are innocent if a fair trial was possible?
The innocent 22? Who are they? What competent court declared them innocent? What were they charged with? Details man, details will be the death of your statement.
 

WoodPeckr

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rogerstaubach said:
The innocent 22? Who are they? What competent court declared them innocent? What were they charged with? Details man, details will be the death of your statement.
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn who wrote 'The Gulag Archipelago' (1973–1975), exposed the brutality of the Soviet labor camp system. He was awarded the Nobel Prize for literature in 1970.

.....And now we have rogie, our resident Doofus Dubya neocrazie apologist, defending the Fucking Crazies of Team 'w' as his Team 'w' neofascists work to bring Gulag Archipelago style Gitmo prison camp systems into the USA!!!!
Unfrigging believeable...........:eek:
 

*d*

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rogerstaubach said:
The innocent 22? Who are they? What competent court declared them innocent? What were they charged with? Details man, details will be the death of your statement.
Todays news will bury your foolishness. Your 'competent court' declared yesterday that of the 30% of Gitmo's detainees to be released, 22 can be freed to their own countries. 5 years after they were detained they can be freed. Not just sent back under the control of their home governments, but freed. Indeed, what were they charged with in those 5 years? Nothing it seems.
www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060422.WORLDREPORT22-1/TPStory/TPInternational/
Gitmo's incompetent military tribunal must be ranked as nothing but a farce. Because where are all the charges? And if these at Gitmo are indeed terrorists, why in 5 years hasn't anyone been convicted? Competence? No, a farce of a tribunal, in the hope of keeping the detainees indefinitely. Its only through international pressure now that some detainees can be released.
And btw, Gitmo is not a legitimate military POW detention centre. Because the detainees do not have the rights of POWs. Nor do they have rights as civilians. They have been classified by Bush as something sub-human with no rights at all. So the US courts are still out on just what, if anything, is legitimate at Guantanamo.
 
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*d* said:
Todays news will bury your foolishness. Your 'competent court' declared yesterday that of the 30% of Gitmo's detainees to be released, 22 can be freed to their own countries. 5 years after they were detained they can be freed. Not just sent back under the control of their home governments, but freed. Indeed, what were they charged with in those 5 years? Nothing it seems.
www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060422.WORLDREPORT22-1/TPStory/TPInternational/
Gitmo's incompetent military tribunal must be ranked as nothing but a farce. Because where are all the charges? And if these at Gitmo are indeed terrorists, why in 5 years hasn't anyone been convicted? Competence? No, a farce of a tribunal, in the hope of keeping the detainees indefinitely. Its only through international pressure now that some detainees can be released.
And btw, Gitmo is not a legitimate military POW detention centre. Because the detainees do not have the rights of POWs. Nor do they have rights as civilians. They have been classified by Bush as something sub-human with no rights at all. So the US courts are still out on just what, if anything, is legitimate at Guantanamo.
Typical self-serving response as usual *d*. But we have come to expect this sort of "foolishness" and obsfucation of reality.

I note that you are unable to answer my question as to 'criminal charges', charges', 'disposition of charges', 'criminal courts' etc. Why?.....

.......because the vast majority of these detainees are enemy combatants captured on the battelfield and have been detained to PREVENT them from returning to the battlefield and engaging in hostile actions against coalition/ Afghani security forces, and ordinary civilians. This a historical moral imperative practiced throughtout centuries of warfare.

These detainees regularly have their detention and threat level reviewed and if they are deemed not to be a threat they have been and will be released. This is what is happening. Nothing and I mean NOTHING that you deludedly croon about regarding "innocent" is valid and factual. No charges, just enemy combatants detained to prevent them from killing and if their threat is now deemed low they are released. These are the facts.

Detainees do not have to charged with any crimes buddyboy. Those captured on the battlefield and whose actions do not amount to crimes can be detained till their threat level is deemed to be minimal or until the cessation of hostilities. You don't like it......to friggin bad.

And those who have been captured and detained and whose actions rise to the level of crimes are being charged accordingly.

These 'innocent, and at the wrong place and wrong time detainees' do not meet the requirements of the Geneva Convention regarding POWs. These dickheads do not meet the requirements of 'civilians' and thus should not require the protection of the full scope of American jursiprudence. Why should they be afforded the mountains and mountains of civilian protection when they have engaged actions hostile to the system they seek to destroy?

These dickheads will get the justice they deserve.....amidst all noise and rabble of the RIFT-pandering and RIFT-hugging blokes who champion their cause.

Gnaw on these facts, *d*.
 
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