Dubya gaffe alert!
- Thread starter happygrump
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Inspections are continuing and transparency is being worked on. Give them the fairness you would give a friend of the US. I hope you agree that political influence has no place in the IAEA.onthebottom said:I don't trust them but that’s not really the issue, we need to use the Reagan logic of trust and verify because in the real world we don't have your luxury of innocent-until-proven-guilty logic. Clearly if Iran will allow unrestricted inspections and come clean on it's past activities this issue will go away - the problem is that they haven’t.
OTB
I would say that we should have the same level of distrust regardless of who the country. I would also say that some countries are a greater risk once they have this technology and Iran could be a very dangerous nuclear power - thus the focus on them.
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In my opinion, all these technicalities: NTP and all dont mean shit in the end. It is merely a political tool used by the superiors to make sure that the lesser people stay lesser. The only countries in this world that demand respect, the only countries whose soverneity is never questioned are those with nuclear weapons... so if I was Iranian, I would want it, If I was american, I would want to keep it, develope it further and make sure others do not get it, by force if necessary...In iran's case, acquiring nukes will give it greater influence and say in a region that holds Israel (US's little brother), Saudi Arabia and the gulf (US's suppliers of energy), so obviously they oppose it .....violations, misunderstandings, who gives a shit...they are just following in the footsteps with India, Pakistan, etc.....and with enough economical connections with europe, sanctions wont mean anything to anybody but the US and Israel....
From todays new:*d* said:Why do you compare Iran with North Korea? Why not compare Iran to another non-nuclear NPT member that first had difficulty signing on but is now clean? Or are you just bias like your government and you simply distrust Iran, axis-of-evil and all?
"Iran deployed the Shahab-3 missiles to its Revolutionary Guards last July after preliminary field tests were successfully completed.
Six of the sand-colored missiles, bearing slogans which said "We will stamp on America" and "We will wipe Israel from the face of the earth," were displayed at an annual military parade last September."
Now I wonder why we don't trust them......
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Pakistan and North Korea with Nuke and missle technology has really worked out well for the world hasn't it.loaded said:In my opinion, all these technicalities: NTP and all dont mean shit in the end. It is merely a political tool used by the superiors to make sure that the lesser people stay lesser. The only countries in this world that demand respect, the only countries whose soverneity is never questioned are those with nuclear weapons... so if I was Iranian, I would want it, If I was american, I would want to keep it, develope it further and make sure others do not get it, by force if necessary...In iran's case, acquiring nukes will give it greater influence and say in a region that holds Israel (US's little brother), Saudi Arabia and the gulf (US's suppliers of energy), so obviously they oppose it .....violations, misunderstandings, who gives a shit...they are just following in the footsteps with India, Pakistan, etc.....and with enough economical connections with europe, sanctions wont mean anything to anybody but the US and Israel....
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Yes it did. Pakistan was not invaded by india, and the sanctions like you said were lifted...onthebottom said:Pakistan and North Korea with Nuke and missle technology has really worked out well for the world hasn't it.
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As for north korea, the bigger axes-of-evil member was not invaded because it is too huge of a pill for the US to swallow, too big of an army, too much at risk....
And on a smaller level, had IRAN not spent those years building up its army, it also would have been invaded along side Iraq and afghanistan, but with a relatively strong army they made the US change plans at least.. put-off till later....
there are huge benfits for countries to have a strong deterrant nukes being number 1....
Regardless of the pakistani's delivery system, india would not want to pick a fight with a nucleur power, they are neighbors, there are ways to get something in... And yes north korea will not start anything, but you keep analyzing this as if these countries are out to start a war, they got nukes to give themselves some leverage, to defend themselves from an american invasion, so all in all as a deterrant with a modest delivery system nukes work. Put it this way, had Iraq had WMD, the madman would have used them as a last resort, but everyone knew from the beginning there was nothing there...I partially agree with some of the poitns you made, but all in all as a deterrant or a bargaining chip or .... having nukes payes off, short term long term, depends on the political situation they are in , but they are an asset......bbking said:Regarding the Pakistan/India situtation, I suspect India's reluctance to attack Pakistan has more to do with the Treaty that Pakistan and China signed concerning military/economic support. India did not seem that shy in it's sabre rattling last year over militants from Pakistan attacking the Kashmir or that parliment incedent. Pakistan has limited ability to strike India with nukes with it's current delivery system and that's where the China treaty comes in - China has the ability.
As for North Korea - this is as bottled up as a country can be, yes they have a million man army - yes they produce some of the best missles in the world but as quoted on 60 min. Bill Clinton last year said about NK potential use of nuclear weapons"The North Koreans have to know that if they did anything they would be burned to the ground" I believe they have the correct policy here is the one they are doing - waiting the North Koreans out and getting them to drop the nuclear program. It is only a matter of time before a society that keeps such a large army at a level of comfort far beyond the rest of it's society before it collapses on itself. Trying to make the North Koreans as this grand tough army is silly - even with nukes they are no match for the US. If North Korea used nukes it would be a war shorter than six day war, it might even be called the six hour war.
bbk
they did the first time, and lost about 1.5 million soldiers. will they again, I dont think so, but they wont let the US walk all over either... Heck the US is allready backtracking on taiwan..."Its the economy stupid"red said:its not just the north koreans- will the chinese support them again?
The asshats in India/pakistan are no different than the asshats in the US/Russia...bbking said:-
that some asshat polititian in India or Pakistan might decide that his/her Country could survive a first strike.
bbk
Other than their skin color, how do they differ ?
I was speaking more to the proliferation of missile technology from North Korea and Nuke technology from Pakistan.loaded said:Yes it did. Pakistan was not invaded by india, and the sanctions like you said were lifted...
As for north korea, the bigger axes-of-evil member was not invaded because it is too huge of a pill for the US to swallow, too big of an army, too much at risk....
And on a smaller level, had IRAN not spent those years building up its army, it also would have been invaded along side Iraq and afghanistan, but with a relatively strong army they made the US change plans at least.. put-off till later....
there are huge benfits for countries to have a strong deterrant nukes being number 1....
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The issue on North Korea is: will China let the UNSC set sanctions on North Korea if a negotiated settlement cannot be reached. I'm holding my breath for the "honest broker" to the North to step in and negotiate a settlement on this issue.....loaded said:they did the first time, and lost about 1.5 million soldiers. will they again, I dont think so, but they wont let the US walk all over either... Heck the US is allready backtracking on taiwan..."Its the economy stupid"
How is the US backtracking on Taiwan? I thought US policy was that Taiwan should not unilaterally declare independence and that China should not unilaterally try and reestablish control of the island but that a solution should be negotiated.
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Certainly China, South Korea, Russia and Japan have a large stake in the outcome so it's appropriate for these to be multilateral negotiations. It is worth pointing out for those bashers of US Foreign policy that North Korea would like direct bilateral talks with the US but the US has pushed back on this and sees this issue as a UN issue.bbking said:I think that is why the slower movement on North Korea - China's possible blocking of sanctions with their Security Council veto. I think the US approach here is the right one - to allow China and other NK neighbors to take the lead here.
bbk
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