Drunk Driving is Murder

[Questor]

I was just watching 60 Minutes and they did a piece on drinking and driving. It was about a US prosecutor who is pushing for tougher sentencing when alcohol and driving are involved in a death. Normally it is vehicular manslaughter and the punishment can be anywhere from probation to 15 years. But she charges them with murder. The punishment for murder is 15 years to life.

They showed an example of a guy that drove the wrong way on a highway and hit a limo taking people home from a wedding reception. A little girl who was something like 8 years old was literally beheaded. The limo driver was killed instantly. Others were seriously injured. The drunk driver was injured, but not so seriously. So the prosecutor's position is that by labelling them as murderers and locking them up for 15 years minimum, you are creating a deterrent and will make people think before they do it.

I expect this question will push some buttons for some people here on terb, and I hope this doesn't degenerate into a cries to fry the bastard. I don't think anyone here will deny that it is a serious social problem (15,000 deaths a year in US).

I think that such punishments will make some people avoid drinking and driving when they are way over the limit (the guy in the above case was 3 times legal limit). So maybe it is something that needs to be done.

But I think the majority of these people who drive under the influence are in serious denial about what they are doing. And besides, they think they won't get caught. So its not a problem in their minds.

What about the people who drink and drive who do not get in an accident? I say if you want to send a serious message and really change people's decision-making when they are under the influence, you need to make the sentences more severe for everyone, not just the people who kill someone. So what I have in mind is something like 6 months in jail (and I don't mean on weekends) and 3 years no driving. That would be first offence. Second offence would be 10 years or life time ban on driving and a longer jail term. You'll have to excuse me as I am not up on current sentencing practices. Maybe someone can fill me in. I believe they are fairly serious even with first offence, but not that serious.

So what do you all think?

 

[S.C. Joe]

Quite a few states in the USA charge the drivers with murder now if they kiil somebody..or family's..we had a guy in Ohio drive the wrong way on I-75, he started off in Michigan, made it around 10 mins and drove head on to a mini van carrying mom and dad and 2-3 kids, all were killed but the drunk...he got charge with murder and got life in prison.


Do I agree with it, no, its not "murder"...they should change the law thou so ALL drunks who kill get the same sentence, if its life fine but ALL drunks who kill should then get life. Same with an off duty cop who jumps a curb while driving drunk and kills a homeless person.

I like laws being fair and treating everybody the same no matter who you are.

 

[S.C. Joe]

I think ALL cars should somehow be made not to run normal if it believes the driver is drunk. For safety it should run in case the driver has to flee, or it malfunctions but have it flashing its headlights on, limit it speed and send a notice to the police to cheak it out.

Maybe one day all new cars will have it, last I knew they are working on steering wheel sensors that can read the skin for acohol...those tubes to blow in are in pain in the butt and not all people can even do it.

 

[King Midas]

For safety it should run in case the driver has to flee

Elaborate, please.

 

[Asterix]

I think ALL cars should somehow be made not to run normal if it believes the driver is drunk. For safety it should run in case the driver has to flee, or it malfunctions but have it flashing its headlights on, limit it speed and send a notice to the police to cheak it out.

Maybe one day all new cars will have it, last I knew they are working on steering wheel sensors that can read the skin for acohol...those tubes to blow in are in pain in the butt and not all people can even do it.

And maybe one day we can rely on machines to detect all kinds of abbhorent human behavior, potential or otherwise. Happy now?

 

[Music_Box]

Lol I hate drunk drivers, throw the book at them.

The laws are still too soft for drunk drivers.

 

[S.C. Joe]

Many people are still driving around drunk. It be nice if people would grow up and think more before driving while drunk. Look how many people just get busted for drunk driving, how many more don't get caught.

So, yeah, why not make the cars detect alcohol, I rather pay for that then air bags.

 

[smylee52]

I think ALL cars should somehow be made not to run normal if it believes the driver is drunk. For safety it should run in case the driver has to flee, or it malfunctions but have it flashing its headlights on, limit it speed and send a notice to the police to cheak it out.

Maybe one day all new cars will have it, last I knew they are working on steering wheel sensors that can read the skin for acohol...those tubes to blow in are in pain in the butt and not all people can even do it.

Agreed . So much better to work on ways to prevent drunk drivers from moving their vehicle rather than punishing some sap after he destroys the lives of many people .

 

[S.C. Joe]

Elaborate, please.

Man and wife are drinking together, the guy starts to hit the lady, she needs to flee while drunk....it happens The car should always start.

 

[Aardvark154]

I was just watching 60 Minutes and they did a piece on drinking and driving. It was about a US prosecutor who is pushing for tougher sentencing when alcohol and driving are involved in a death. Normally it is vehicular manslaughter and the punishment can be anywhere from probation to 15 years. But she charges them with murder. The punishment for murder is 15 years to life.

It depends on the laws of the particular state. There should definitely be aggravated penalties for killing someone while operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated, including a charge such as Aggravated Vehicular Manslaughter. But Murder is stretching it, and I wonder how many convictions she obtains.

Further in some states Voluntary Intoxication is a "defense" that can be argued to murder, obviously the state mentioned must not be one of them.

 

[RandyAndy2]

Agreed . So much better to work on ways to prevent drunk drivers from moving their vehicle rather than punishing some sap after he destroys the lives of many people .

I agree as well. It's better to prevent the crime than to issue punishment afterwards.
Getting back to Questor's original question, more severe punishment will only work as a deterrent if there is a reasonably high liklihood that one will be caught. It's not enough just to increase the penalty.

 

[Keebler Elf]

I say if you want to send a serious message and really change people's decision-making when they are under the influence, you need to make the sentences more severe for everyone, not just the people who kill someone.

Blah blah blah, this is just another one of those "make everything harsher" reactionary arguments that simply doesn't work. The US has the death penalty and that's been shown to not be a deterrent to crime.

When people are making the decision to drive drunk, 9 times out of 10 they're under the influence already and their judgement is therefore already impaired. Thinking about what may happen 1 time out of 100 is not going through their heads.

Penalties for drunk driving are severe enough as they are. No matter how emotional you may get, killing someone while driving drunk is not murder. It's not pre-meditated. The drunk driver did not say, "I'm going to drink so I'll be drunk and can kill people." It's blatant negligence and the punishments are set accordingly.

If you kill someone while drunk driving, you will serve time and will bear the stigma of your actions for the rest of your life.

p.s., To all those reactionary people out there who want the penalties for everything to be more severe, pretty soon all you're left with is capital punishment and your society becomes a joke. Just look at the Muslim countries where they stone people for infidelity. It's ridiculous.

 

[Keebler Elf]

If you want to kill someone, do it with a car.

I have had friends killed by drunk drivers. The drivers were not overtly remorseful, and sentencing was minimal.

I have known habitual drunk drivers. They would get permission to drive to and from work, and still drink. They considered it a joke.

I think there should simply be a lifetime ban for drunk drivers. Pure and simple.

So much of your post is factually incorrect.

You cannot have a driving suspension/prohibition lifted so you can drive to work. It doesn't happen as the law does not allow for it. Period.

There already is a lifetime ban if you're convicted of multiple offenses. As there should be.

Giving a lifetime ban to grandma for having a glass of wine is ridiculous. The punishment should fit the crime. If it doesn't, you might as well have a kangaroo court banana republic where emotion runs the judicial system.

 

[Angela@Mirage]

I was just watching 60 Minutes and they did a piece on drinking and driving. It was about a US prosecutor who is pushing for tougher sentencing when alcohol and driving are involved in a death. Normally it is vehicular manslaughter and the punishment can be anywhere from probation to 15 years. But she charges them with murder. The punishment for murder is 15 years to life.

They showed an example of a guy that drove the wrong way on a highway and hit a limo taking people home from a wedding reception. A little girl who was something like 8 years old was literally beheaded. The limo driver was killed instantly. Others were seriously injured. The drunk driver was injured, but not so seriously. So the prosecutor's position is that by labelling them as murderers and locking them up for 15 years minimum, you are creating a deterrent and will make people think before they do it.

I expect this question will push some buttons for some people here on terb, and I hope this doesn't degenerate into a cries to fry the bastard. I don't think anyone here will deny that it is a serious social problem (15,000 deaths a year in US).

I think that such punishments will make some people avoid drinking and driving when they are way over the limit (the guy in the above case was 3 times legal limit). So maybe it is something that needs to be done.

But I think the majority of these people who drive under the influence are in serious denial about what they are doing. And besides, they think they won't get caught. So its not a problem in their minds.

What about the people who drink and drive who do not get in an accident? I say if you want to send a serious message and really change people's decision-making when they are under the influence, you need to make the sentences more severe for everyone, not just the people who kill someone. So what I have in mind is something like 6 months in jail (and I don't mean on weekends) and 3 years no driving. That would be first offence. Second offence would be 10 years or life time ban on driving and a longer jail term. You'll have to excuse me as I am not up on current sentencing practices. Maybe someone can fill me in. I believe they are fairly serious even with first offence, but not that serious.

So what do you all think?

Thanks for the great post. The most serious massage to send to people is after the fact. It is unfortunate that people will continue to drink and drive until they themselves, experience the horrible loss of a family member killed by the selfish act of another. I lost a family member to a drunk driver. That driver celebrated Christmas this year, while my family remembered.

 

[Barca]

Killing someone is killing someone. Drinking shouldn't be an excuse, the punishment should definitely be connected to the severity and consequences of your actions. If you take someone's life, I don't care if it's with a gun or a car, your sentence shouldn't be house arrest or a couple of months in the slammer. That's no deterrent and definitely doesn't help the public have confidence in the system.

 

[hunter001]

Thanks for the great post. The most serious massage to send to people is after the fact. It is unfortunate that people will continue to drink and drive until they themselves, experience the horrible loss of a family member killed by the selfish act of another. I lost a family member to a drunk driver. That driver celebrated Christmas this year, while my family remembered.

First off I am sorry for you loss.

I don't agree with your statement about having to experience a horrible loss before change is possible. Back in the day I have driven near the limit (say 3 - 4 drinks over 4 - 5 hour period.) I think maybe twice. I don't know if I was over or not but nothing happened, ... The message was different then. The message then was to drink according to you weight, 1 drink per hour for a guy my size equaled, 3 - 4 drinks over the evening.

Again without knowing if those times I was impaired or not, I would not do it today. I have not experienced a loss but I have matured as a person. I rarely drink and I don't drink at all if I am driving.

There are hardcore drinkers that will never change. I was recently told of a guy in the outback of central Ontario that "totaled his trunk on New Years" and neighbor who shared 4 bottles of wine then drove home. The further you get from the city and public transit, the greater the tolerance for drinking and driving.

 

[hunter001]

Killing someone is killing someone. Drinking shouldn't be an excuse, the punishment should definitely be connected to the severity and consequences of your actions. If you take someone's life, I don't care if it's with a gun or a car, your sentence shouldn't be house arrest or a couple of months in the slammer. That's no deterrent and definitely doesn't help the public have confidence in the system.

O.P. was talking about sending people to jail that haven't killed anyone...

 

[King Midas]

Man and wife are drinking together, the guy starts to hit the lady, she needs to flee while drunk....it happens. The car should always start.

Fleeing while drunk. Hmmm. I don't see that happening.

 

[karmastang]

When people are making the decision to drive drunk, 9 times out of 10 they're under the influence already and their judgement is therefore already impaired.

The law should be amended...if you have even one drink, you don't drive. It would solve the problem of people wondering if they're over the limit..had a drink? You're over the limit.

 

[Barca]

O.P. was talking about sending people to jail that haven't killed anyone...

Yeah my comment was sort of in addition to the posts that came after.

However, still connected, since killing someone should be treated that serious, it would stand to reason that if you haven't killed someone, it should still be treated with increased severity than how it currently is.